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  1. #1

    Thumbs up Make Outlaw Great Again

    Hey,

    We all know that : Outlaw is the worst spec of the rogue currently (in fact one of the worst spec of the game).

    I played Outlaw from Legion pre-patch to Nighthold, thinking "don't matter if the overall DPS is average, at least i love the gameplay."

    The problem is that since ToS has opened, the difference between Subtlety and Outlaw is too big. I mean : even if i'm not a hardcore raider (only 3/9M), i can't say this time "don't matter if the DPS is the lowest in almost all situations..."

    Because it's from the outcome/performance of a spec that come the pleasure. And with a very low DPS in outcome, the gameplay don't create challenge of optimisation. Instead it creates frustration.

    I hope there will be good change in 7.3.2 for Outlaw because i would like to play it again, without the frustration of performance.

    What do you think about that ?

    Daille.

    (Sorry for bad english)
    Last edited by Daille; 2017-11-19 at 10:25 PM.

  2. #2
    I love outlaw. Unfortunately it's benched until they give outlaw a significant buff/figure out how to fix the spec. Outlaw won't be good again until next xpac at least. So don't expect it to come up again in legion.

    <<KittyKat Extraordinaire>> MaddyDubV#1399

  3. #3
    Making me nostalgic for the "good old boring Combat Rogue" days is the ONLY thing Outlaw actually accomplished.

    The RNG thing KILLED it.

    IF they had made RTB a Burn phase CD depending on how many CP's you had when you hit the CD...etc. , I may have been able to play this spec.
    But they stuck to "class feelz" and ...it now FEELZ...and actually IS CRAP.
    Looks?
    A

    Play style when NOT in a raid ?
    C, kinda clunky and slow but it works.
    Last edited by enragedgorilla; 2017-09-29 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #4
    Remove rng, tune up damage.
    That'd go a long way.

    This whole class fantasy they cling to with the damn dice rolls is ridiculous imo.
    Replace rtb with a ranged parrot attack or a chandelier swing or whatever if the pirate theme is more important than gameplay.
    Or redesign rtb to 5 things you adapt your rotation, you roll WITH the dice.
    Not just good and bad rolls.
    So your rewarded for adapting to the roll, penalized for not doing it. But its still you, not the rng who dictates how you perform.
    Not the easiest thing to do tho but still.

  5. #5
    I actually hope the pirate dice game spec remains trash because the entire design ethos is laughable. Glad sub is on top and hope it stays that way until outlaw gets reworked.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by keskmaz View Post
    I actually hope the pirate dice game spec remains trash because the entire design ethos is laughable. Glad sub is on top and hope it stays that way until outlaw gets reworked.
    Well, considering that most of the outlaw rogues that still play are going SnD, I think it goes to show that blizz's design of RtB ultimately failed.

  7. #7
    Roll the bones seems like some pet project a casual developer made and will defend it's use till the end of time "you just don't get how to use it. It's for fun not raiding"

  8. #8
    I don't understand why people cry so much over RtB. It's not that bad, it's actually quite fun to have your character feel different all the time and having to react to that and change your rotation accordingly. The only problem is tuning, and how much of that RNG impacts your DPS.

  9. #9
    Titan Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    I don't understand why people cry so much over RtB. It's not that bad, it's actually quite fun to have your character feel different all the time and having to react to that and change your rotation accordingly. The only problem is tuning, and how much of that RNG impacts your DPS.
    How is it fun to have absolutely no control over your DPS?

  10. #10
    Not sure if anyone has suggested this before, but..
    What if they turned roll the bones into what the old rotating insight mechanic was, where instead of flat dmg increases it would rotate through the different roll the bones buffs. To keep the hype of the 5/6 rolls they could maybe just introduce a cooldown which would give you all buffs for a limited time.

    I think i'd be on board for that atleast.

    EDIT: Such big a change would obviously need to wait for 8.0
    Last edited by Ghuron; 2017-09-30 at 07:14 AM.

  11. #11
    Actully i dont mind so much the dps.. this is simething that can be fixed in a small patch..

    But do you really guys find the outlaw fun? It seems very "clunky" to me... the animations and especially that pistol shot ...

    Personally i would remove pistol shot, or make it something to use from range when you cannot go near boss... and i would make killing spree as a default short cooldown in rotation instead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    I don't understand why people cry so much over RtB. It's not that bad, it's actually quite fun to have your character feel different all the time and having to react to that and change your rotation accordingly. The only problem is tuning, and how much of that RNG impacts your DPS.
    If the rng does not impact very much your dps, it wont be fun!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghuron View Post
    Not sure if anyone has suggested this before, but..
    What if they turned roll the bones into what the old rotating insight mechanic was, where instead of flat dmg increases it would rotate through the different roll the bones buffs. To keep the hype of the 5/6 rolls they could maybe just introduce a cooldown which would give you all buffs for a limited time.

    I think i'd be on board for that atleast.

    EDIT: Such big a change would obviously need to wait for 8.0
    Thats a good alternative!
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    How is it fun to have absolutely no control over your DPS?
    It's fun because your rotation changes all the time (minor changes, not drastic ones). The current problem is that A) the spec is tuned horribly and even if all the stars align you still barely keep up with a subtlety rogue and B) the RNG has too much of an impact on your DPS. If they can somehow keep RtB but make the margins between bad rolls and insane rolls smaller, I don't see the problem with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    Actully i dont mind so much the dps.. this is simething that can be fixed in a small patch..

    But do you really guys find the outlaw fun? It seems very "clunky" to me... the animations and especially that pistol shot ...

    Personally i would remove pistol shot, or make it something to use from range when you cannot go near boss... and i would make killing spree as a default short cooldown in rotation instead.
    So basically you want old combat back?

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    If the rng does not impact very much your dps, it wont be fun!
    It's not the DPS impact that makes RtB fun for me personally. I usually turn off my meters and only check them after kills/wipes anyway. For me it's the changes in the rotation it creates.

  13. #13
    i love how people are all up in arms about RTB RNG (which after the adrush guaranteed 2 buff thing is pretty reliable)

    but would have no problem playing poison bomb simulator

  14. #14
    RNG in gameplay, fun.
    RNG in DPS, frustrating.

    There was a nice idea in a message above :
    Reduce the DPS difference depending on which roll we have.
    Only change the feeling of the gameplay.
    And for a fun burst that make/keep DPS substainable : a new spell "5 dices" available every 2 or 3 minutes.

  15. #15
    Titan Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    So basically you want old combat back?
    Yes please. I want that.

  16. #16
    The main thing for me is that there needs to never be a time where re-rolling the bones is desirable. Either proper balancing or scrapping/redesigning it, I don't care which. A maintenance buff is fine, but not when it gets to the point of playing a dice mini game instead of doing damage.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotch View Post
    The main thing for me is that there needs to never be a time where re-rolling the bones is desirable. Either proper balancing or scrapping/redesigning it, I don't care which. A maintenance buff is fine, but not when it gets to the point of playing a dice mini game instead of doing damage.
    last i checked it was like that already

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    Yes please. I want that.
    The Outlaw pirate fantasy is cool.
    But low damage potentiel kill that.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunika123 View Post
    i love how people are all up in arms about RTB RNG (which after the adrush guaranteed 2 buff thing is pretty reliable)

    but would have no problem playing poison bomb simulator
    Poison Bomb is part of a rotation.

    RTB is Bad RNG is bad.

    Roll the Bones is bad RNG. We called it in Legion ALPHA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    Yes please. I want that.
    Agreed.

    Start over without RTB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.
    7.2 We fly!!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    So basically you want old combat back?
    Yeap indeed :P and if possible even older than Revealing Strike. I liked the simplicity of rogue, (Keep SnD up, Eviscerate, Killing Spree / Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry manage)
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

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