Need help for a PC (~700 - 800 euros) in the Netherlands

[Mystrome]

You can try marktplaats.nl for 2nd hand parts, at your own risk ofc.

Also, is your €800 budget just for the PC itself, or do you also need to include a keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers/headphones?

What do you plan to use the PC for mainly? What kind of games?

[Deleted]

You can try marktplaats.nl for 2nd hand parts, at your own risk ofc.

Also, is your €800 budget just for the PC itself, or do you also need to include a keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers/headphones?

What do you plan to use the PC for mainly? What kind of games?

Hello,

The budget is for case only.

I am a research engineer in fact. I need a good CPU/GPU/RAM to deal with big data analysis. In my spare time ... I will say games like GTA V.

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You can try marktplaats.nl for 2nd hand parts, at your own risk ofc.

Also, is your €800 budget just for the PC itself, or do you also need to include a keyboard, mouse, monitor and speakers/headphones?

What do you plan to use the PC for mainly? What kind of games?

Hello,

The budget is for case only.

I am a research engineer in fact. I need a good CPU/GPU/RAM to deal with big data analysis. In my spare time ... I will say games like GTA V.

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You're looking at it on Tweakers.net

Ah I see. I used Google Translate so I did not understand that

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This is a super solid build, makes up in a lot of places your build was lacking!

Hi, great to hear that.

Could you explain me a little bit more what are the lack of my own build, and how does it fix?

I was absent of PC market for several years (last few years I used a laptop provided by my lab), so I am outdated of recent technology. It's a good chance to catch up.

[teamkiller]

Hello,

The budget is for case only.

I am a research engineer in fact. I need a good CPU/GPU/RAM to deal with big data analysis. In my spare time ... I will say games like GTA V.

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Hello,

The budget is for case only.

I am a research engineer in fact. I need a good CPU/GPU/RAM to deal with big data analysis. In my spare time ... I will say games like GTA V.

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Ah I see. I used Google Translate so I did not understand that

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Hi, great to hear that.

Could you explain me a little bit more what are the lack of my own build, and how does it fix?

I was absent of PC market for several years (last few years I used a laptop provided by my lab), so I am outdated of recent technology. It's a good chance to catch up.

I had made a post previously in the thread, that build fixed most of my issues i had with your build. To reiterate, a320 motherboard bad, B350 or X370 motherboard good, B350 is cheaper and will do most of what you need, X370 is almost a luxury board. Now that you've listed your workload, i think the Ryzen 5 1500x should be your bare minimum, i would completely shy away from Intel. (At least in your price range).

-----------read this if you want to understand the ryzen cpu structure-----------
Ryzen is made up of 2 major sectors that are tied together using "infinity fabric'TM'" Each of those major sectors have 4 cores. Depending on which chip you get will designate which cores are turned on and off, whether they had SMT simultaneous multi-threading (Same as intels hyperthreading). Each state outside of the R7 has a high clock (binned) part and a low clocked. The R7 has one more range that is binned even better. The 1200 and 1300x are both quad-core CPUs without SMT so 2 cores in each sector is enabled. The 1200 is the lower clock binned and the 1300x is the higher clock binned. The 1400 and 1500x are quad-core CPUs with SMT so they have 8 threads. They follow the same as the 1200 and 1300x, the 1400 is lower speed binned and the 1500x is higher. The 1600 and 1600x are Hexa-core CPUs with SMT. And like above the 1600 is lower speed binned and the 1600x is higher. The 1700, 1700x and 1800x are all octa-core CPUs with SMT. Following the same pattern as before except the 1800x, is practically a "perfect" chip.
In most cases, this would mean you would have relatively the same gains per dollar(euro) spent. Except, all ryzen chips are overclockable as long as you have at least a b350 motherboard, a320 has this feature disabled. If you are willing to overclock, the 1200, 1400, 1600 and 1700 can all clock to almost the same speeds as the higher chips in their bracket. If you aren't willing to overclock, typically you will stick with the 1500x or the 1600x but still use a b350 motherboard as its not that much more than an a320 board. Now because of the infinity fabric, Ryzen really really likes higher clocked RAM. This as i stated before can give you marginal to decent gains (10-12%). This is always a question of if its worth it, and this will come down to budget for getting faster ram. This however will not matter if you get an a320 board as any speed faster than 2133/2400 ram is considered an overclock and the a320 has that disabled.


-------------------------------Skip to here otherwise

In comparison to intel for pricing, the i5 is around the same costs as the R5(ryzen). However with the i5, you only get 4 cores without hyperthreading or SMT. If you are trying to do heavy number crunching or multitasking/tasks that scale with more cores, the Ryzen chip is just a much better value. This may change with the new intel chips, but that is still to be tested and determined as they were just released.

As to why i didn't like your gpu selection. You case allows a bigger GPU. A cooler GPU is a happier GPU. More fans = cooler GPU. Now im not saying go overboard, but a M-ITX GPU, you are most likely paying extra for the small size and losing cooling. M-ITX really should only be used in an M-ITX build.(There are fringe cases where you may still have to use it).

As for the WiFi, getting a PCI-E network card would be better than an m.2 as you will not need to run antenna as the card will have them on it. Either that or getting just an ordinary wifi usb 3.0 stick. If you opted for the PCI-E card, you will need something bigger than a M-ATX motherboard as the M-ATX only has one PCI-E x16 slot and the x4 slot above may be blocked by your GPU.

Evilduffy really ironed out the build and balanced it well. Your build was close but definitely needed a few tweaks. If you don't like the case he select, just look for any case that supports an ATX motherboard and has at least a fan in the rear for exhaust and a fan in the front for intake. (if you find one you really like but does have these, buy some fans. Make sure the case can mount that fan size)

Also, i'm sorry if my english isn't clear through the translate feature of google. If you need something reexplained, please feel free to ask.

[Deleted]

I had made a post previously in the thread, that build fixed most of my issues i had with your build. To reiterate, a320 motherboard bad, B350 or X370 motherboard good, B350 is cheaper and will do most of what you need, X370 is almost a luxury board. Now that you've listed your workload, i think the Ryzen 5 1500x should be your bare minimum, i would completely shy away from Intel. (At least in your price range).

-----------read this if you want to understand the ryzen cpu structure-----------
Ryzen is made up of 2 major sectors that are tied together using "infinity fabric'TM'" Each of those major sectors have 4 cores. Depending on which chip you get will designate which cores are turned on and off, whether they had SMT simultaneous multi-threading (Same as intels hyperthreading). Each state outside of the R7 has a high clock (binned) part and a low clocked. The R7 has one more range that is binned even better. The 1200 and 1300x are both quad-core CPUs without SMT so 2 cores in each sector is enabled. The 1200 is the lower clock binned and the 1300x is the higher clock binned. The 1400 and 1500x are quad-core CPUs with SMT so they have 8 threads. They follow the same as the 1200 and 1300x, the 1400 is lower speed binned and the 1500x is higher. The 1600 and 1600x are Hexa-core CPUs with SMT. And like above the 1600 is lower speed binned and the 1600x is higher. The 1700, 1700x and 1800x are all octa-core CPUs with SMT. Following the same pattern as before except the 1800x, is practically a "perfect" chip.
In most cases, this would mean you would have relatively the same gains per dollar(euro) spent. Except, all ryzen chips are overclockable as long as you have at least a b350 motherboard, a320 has this feature disabled. If you are willing to overclock, the 1200, 1400, 1600 and 1700 can all clock to almost the same speeds as the higher chips in their bracket. If you aren't willing to overclock, typically you will stick with the 1500x or the 1600x but still use a b350 motherboard as its not that much more than an a320 board. Now because of the infinity fabric, Ryzen really really likes higher clocked RAM. This as i stated before can give you marginal to decent gains (10-12%). This is always a question of if its worth it, and this will come down to budget for getting faster ram. This however will not matter if you get an a320 board as any speed faster than 2133/2400 ram is considered an overclock and the a320 has that disabled.


-------------------------------Skip to here otherwise

In comparison to intel for pricing, the i5 is around the same costs as the R5(ryzen). However with the i5, you only get 4 cores without hyperthreading or SMT. If you are trying to do heavy number crunching or multitasking/tasks that scale with more cores, the Ryzen chip is just a much better value. This may change with the new intel chips, but that is still to be tested and determined as they were just released.

As to why i didn't like your gpu selection. You case allows a bigger GPU. A cooler GPU is a happier GPU. More fans = cooler GPU. Now im not saying go overboard, but a M-ITX GPU, you are most likely paying extra for the small size and losing cooling. M-ITX really should only be used in an M-ITX build.(There are fringe cases where you may still have to use it).

As for the WiFi, getting a PCI-E network card would be better than an m.2 as you will not need to run antenna as the card will have them on it. Either that or getting just an ordinary wifi usb 3.0 stick. If you opted for the PCI-E card, you will need something bigger than a M-ATX motherboard as the M-ATX only has one PCI-E x16 slot and the x4 slot above may be blocked by your GPU.

Evilduffy really ironed out the build and balanced it well. Your build was close but definitely needed a few tweaks. If you don't like the case he select, just look for any case that supports an ATX motherboard and has at least a fan in the rear for exhaust and a fan in the front for intake. (if you find one you really like but does have these, buy some fans. Make sure the case can mount that fan size)

Also, i'm sorry if my english isn't clear through the translate feature of google. If you need something reexplained, please feel free to ask.

Great

I switched to case ATX, Asus B350 Prime, AMD Ryzen 1600.

For the RAM, tweakers said that it is 105 euros for 16GB (2x8) 2400 but I believe that it is fake.

I went to the website of conrad, and in fact they are running out of this product. Maybe that's why it's cheap.

Btw, did anyone buy things from Amazon Germany. I built an exact system on Amazon DE and it seems to me that it is cheaper than tweakers

[teamkiller]

Great

I switched to case ATX, Asus B350 Prime, AMD Ryzen 1600.

For the RAM, tweakers said that it is 105 euros for 16GB (2x8) 2400 but I believe that it is fake.

I went to the website of conrad, and in fact they are running out of this product. Maybe that's why it's cheap.

Btw, did anyone buy things from Amazon Germany. I built an exact system on Amazon DE and it seems to me that it is cheaper than tweakers

105 maybe about right 125$ for 16gb is about normal for 2400.

Unfortunately im US only so I can't help you with the ordering

[Mystrome]

Btw, did anyone buy things from Amazon Germany. I built an exact system on Amazon DE and it seems to me that it is cheaper than tweakers

Personally haven't, but I know people who order from there in the Netherlands.

Seems to work just fine.

Just remember that Tweakers isn't a shop. It's just a tech site that tries to keep track of prices for goods and parts. It's hardly ever accurate, but it does give you a ballpark of what parts costs. It also doesn't include ALL webshops, just a selection of popular ones (bol.com, coolblue, 4launch, Azerty.nl etc). If you search for individual components, you're likely to find sources not mentioned, although those are often less known (and possibly trustworthy).

It can be a lot of work searching for the cheapest vendor for each individual part but it sometimes pays off. Do take into consideration that you might be better off buying several (slightly more expensive) parts from a single vendor and pay a single (or no) shipping fee rather than paying €5-9 extra for shipping each part individually.

With 8+ parts shipping fees can add up.



Or do what I did:

Gather a list of parts you want, go to your nearest PC shop and have them order and build it for you. I ended up paying about €45 more than if I had build it myself, but got a 3 year warranty on it (which I did had to use unfortunately, fan of the PSU died after about 18 months).

It's nice to be able to take your PC somewhere and say "fix this".

[Evildeffy]

The simple answer is, why he stated my build is good, is simply put because I balanced the build with better components and especially higher quality items from some.
Adding features that are very good to have whilst also remaining balanced build instead of something grossly budgeted towards A and leaving B to dry.

I made sure that the build was one that didn't suck and used items that on a budget are still there to last and give a good price/performance ratio.

I just rechecked the RAM and it's likely a remnant from kits that were for sale before the insane price jump they've made the last couple of months.

This is the closest RAM, if you so desire to go for high speed as you SHOULD be able to run this @ 2933MHz, I could find with a decent price:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/7311...hc16cdc01.html

If you need RAM which just works and doesn't dick around for cheap:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/4204...g4d240fsa.html

Tweakers.net is simply a website which lists prices, it does not actually order nor sell anything of the sort.

The 1600 is a good compute chip but a little bit of a slacker when it comes to games ... on stock speeds.
If you intend to overclock then by all means the 1600 is good as MOST clock to about 3,9GHz with the X variants clocking between 100 - 200MHz higher.

Everything has it's up and downsides.

Germany and NL generally have close to the same prices with NL more often being SLIGHTLY (and I really do mean SLIGHTLY) cheaper.. but in a difference of say €10,- in total that Germany may be cheaper will often come back in shipping costs so ... yeah.

Do as you will.

Edit:
Also the reason for the graphics card change isn't so much about price, it's about silence and cooling.
The Zotac has considerably larger heatsink and dual fan system allowing for lower RPM spin vs. a single smaller one that may look cute but will perform worse comparatively in both frequency and acoustics.

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Evilduffy really ironed out the build and balanced it well.

Thank you....

But for the love of God man... my name isn't Evilduffy... do I look like a Simpsons character damnit?

[Deleted]

Thanks again all of you guys. I learned a lot.

Now I can build a full system (without speaker, probably add later - meanwhile I will reuse my headphones) at 962 euros without shipping on tweakers. With shipping in 3 days it will be 988 euros - more than I expected in fact. The budget is around 7 - 800 for a case and I planned 100 for monitor + keyboard / mouse. But I guess it is an usual situation while building PC .

What do I have now:

- Ryzen 1600 (I know about gaming that 1500X is better, but how about data processing, compiling, etc. ?) I suppose that 1600 with more cores will be better? Please correct me if I am wrong, so I can come back to 1500X and save money

- Asus Prime B350 Plus (yeah, Full ATX so I can add more RAM later).

- 2x8GB RAM 3000

- Case Full ATX, Wifi + Bluetooth Adapter of Intel, monitor 21.5 inch FullHD, keyboard + mouse

- 1 fan 12 cm. Is it enough? Or I need one more fan.

- PSU Cooler Master GM G450M

- I switched to SSHD Seagate 2TB instead of SSD + HDD to save money. Not sure if it is a good idea. This SSHD has 64GB of cache.

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Also, I know that tweakers is a price tracking website, but they have a feature like putting a wishlist into something (in Dutch, and Google does not help) that I have no idea what does it mean. Do they support ordering, or I have to go to each store websites and do the trick by myself?

[teamkiller]

The simple answer is, why he stated my build is good, is simply put because I balanced the build with better components and especially higher quality items from some.
Adding features that are very good to have whilst also remaining balanced build instead of something grossly budgeted towards A and leaving B to dry.

I made sure that the build was one that didn't suck and used items that on a budget are still there to last and give a good price/performance ratio.

I just rechecked the RAM and it's likely a remnant from kits that were for sale before the insane price jump they've made the last couple of months.

This is the closest RAM, if you so desire to go for high speed as you SHOULD be able to run this @ 2933MHz, I could find with a decent price:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/7311...hc16cdc01.html

If you need RAM which just works and doesn't dick around for cheap:
https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/4204...g4d240fsa.html

Tweakers.net is simply a website which lists prices, it does not actually order nor sell anything of the sort.

The 1600 is a good compute chip but a little bit of a slacker when it comes to games ... on stock speeds.
If you intend to overclock then by all means the 1600 is good as MOST clock to about 3,9GHz with the X variants clocking between 100 - 200MHz higher.

Everything has it's up and downsides.

Germany and NL generally have close to the same prices with NL more often being SLIGHTLY (and I really do mean SLIGHTLY) cheaper.. but in a difference of say €10,- in total that Germany may be cheaper will often come back in shipping costs so ... yeah.

Do as you will.

Edit:
Also the reason for the graphics card change isn't so much about price, it's about silence and cooling.
The Zotac has considerably larger heatsink and dual fan system allowing for lower RPM spin vs. a single smaller one that may look cute but will perform worse comparatively in both frequency and acoustics.

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Thank you....

But for the love of God man... my name isn't Evilduffy... do I look like a Simpsons character damnit?

My bad, read it wrong.... evilbeer sounds awesome though!

[Evildeffy]

Thanks again all of you guys. I learned a lot.

Now I can build a full system (without speaker, probably add later - meanwhile I will reuse my headphones) at 962 euros without shipping on tweakers. With shipping in 3 days it will be 988 euros - more than I expected in fact. The budget is around 7 - 800 for a case and I planned 100 for monitor + keyboard / mouse. But I guess it is an usual situation while building PC .

Thing is in the PC world especially you get what you pay for.
On some things you just shouldn't cheap out as it'll likely make you pay more lateron for something that went wrong.

The Dutch have a saying you should know: "Goedkoop is duurkoop."

What do I have now:

- Ryzen 1600 (I know about gaming that 1500X is better, but how about data processing, compiling, etc. ?) I suppose that 1600 with more cores will be better? Please correct me if I am wrong, so I can come back to 1500X and save money

Normally yes ... depends on if the software is threaded properly.
If it is, which I know is a common factor in compiling, then it will absolutely crush the 1500X.
But you're going to have to check with the developer of the software if it can, not something I can blindly say.

- Asus Prime B350 Plus (yeah, Full ATX so I can add more RAM later).

Good.

- 2x8GB RAM 3000

The one I linked I take it? Remember the max you'll be able to run it at is 2933 due to AMD's ratios, which is fine regardless.

- Case Full ATX, Wifi + Bluetooth Adapter of Intel, monitor 21.5 inch FullHD, keyboard + mouse

Like I said .. that Intel 7260 isn't going to work. (if it's still the one on your wishlist) ... you're going to have to change that.

- 1 fan 12 cm. Is it enough? Or I need one more fan.

That wholly depends upon the case you choose... and the one you have now I really recommend against it because it's got an 80mm exhaust and no front fan, but you did order the front fan so that can be placed.
It's just way too cheap a case to be any sort of real quality, just so you're aware.

- PSU Cooler Master GM G450M

Fine .. nothing wrong there.

- I switched to SSHD Seagate 2TB instead of SSD + HDD to save money. Not sure if it is a good idea. This SSHD has 64GB of cache.

If it's for budgetary reasons .. it's OK to do so but if it's for "ease of build" or something along those lines then you really shouldn't.
The SSHD whilst in budget reasons is fine is also a reliability issue as it has another point of failure.
And if the cache fails you'll have just an HDD, question on if it'll even work afterward.

Also, I know that tweakers is a price tracking website, but they have a feature like putting a wishlist into something (in Dutch, and Google does not help) that I have no idea what does it mean. Do they support ordering, or I have to go to each store websites and do the trick by myself?

Nope they don't... to be honest though the cheapest store in general is "SiComputers" ... just order the parts you need there really.

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My bad, read it wrong.... evilbeer sounds awesome though!

I'd prefer EvilBear since I'm actually 1,93m and whilst also a bit fat I'm also built like a Bulldozer.
Did a little bit of boxing a long time ago.. I can hit pretty damn hard

[Deleted]

Yes, SiComputers seems as the cheapest store in the Netherlands.