1. #33841
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Breccia is adopting the correct approach in pointing out the magnitude of the compromises Republicans / conservatives who remained behind have made in order to stand by their domestic abuser.

    They've gone wobbly on free trade, wobbly on their positions on workers rights, wobbly on Russia (very wobbly on Russia), wobbly on alliances, wobbly on the Constitution and rule of law, and so much more because they fear Donald Trump mean tweeting them like he did his own FBI Director today.

    Trump is symptomatic. The book of this era will be named "Profiles in Chickenshit", because Trumps worst excesses are enabled by weak men and women, both in the elected Republican Party and in the electoral base as a whole, who threw away their beliefs and our shared American principles simply because they wanted to be in charge for a few years.
    Surely this can't be what caused you to notice that Republican politicians are a bunch of shitheads though, right? During my entire lifetime, well over 90% of them have been unprincipled jackasses that haven't stuck with any particular position that isn't politically expedient. As ever, politicians are mostly sociopaths and remembering that tends to give much better guesses about how they'll behave than treating their sweeping rhetoric as anything they actually believe.

  2. #33842
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Surely this can't be what caused you to notice that Republican politicians are a bunch of shitheads though, right? During my entire lifetime, well over 90% of them have been unprincipled jackasses that haven't stuck with any particular position that isn't politically expedient. As ever, politicians are mostly sociopaths and remembering that tends to give much better guesses about how they'll behave than treating their sweeping rhetoric as anything they actually believe.
    There is a lot to unravel in this reply.

    On the one hand, of course not. All politicians are not trustworthy and unprincipled. The thing that's been striking is the degree to which Republicans have bent to accommodate Trump. That I did not expect. It's gone way further than I expect. They kneel to him to the extent that they let him fuck with their own power. Playing nice to the President by his party is to be expected - Congressional Democrats had no love of the Obama White House from a staffing and coordination standpoint, but they stood by them in public. But what Republicans have done has gone so much further. Democrats would not do this. Democrats have proven themselves more principled.

    The second thing is, and this is paradoxical to the above, what's with the cult-like fealty to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. These are, as we've said, unprincipled politicians. Since when did we start trusting politicians and thinking them people that should be actively defended, rather than used up and discarded? The manner in which Trump's base clings to him is unprecedented in our life times, and maybe all of American history. American Presidents have been wildly popular and loved before. But what Trump has brought out of his base and the things Sanders supporters say about their guy is straight out of Eastern European Cults of personality, 30 years ago.

    So how do we reconcile this: on one hand, we're not supposed to be surprised in politicians are this unprincipled, but on the other hand, accept the fanatical and un-American loyalty to "Our Great President" (as the press office often calls him) offered by his base?

    This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

    Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.
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  3. #33843
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

    Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.
    This is precisely why I support impeachment even if there is a 0.00001% chance the Republican controlled senate will do the right thing and remove this oaf from office. It sends a message that, hey, this shit, not acceptable. The Office of the President of the United States is not a monarchy nor a dictatorship, if you can't abide by our laws while being President, you should not be president.

    No one is above the law.

    No one.

    Which is why, by the way, I think the Office of Legal Council's stance of not indicting a president is f**king stupid. If there's clear evidence, then indict the motherfucker. He's not a king.

    We got rid of our king 243 years ago.

  4. #33844
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    This is precisely why I support impeachment even if there is a 0.00001% chance the Republican controlled senate will do the right thing and remove this oaf from office. It sends a message that, hey, this shit, not acceptable. The Office of the President of the United States is not a monarchy nor a dictatorship, if you can't abide by our laws while being President, you should not be president.

    No one is above the law.

    No one.

    Which is why, by the way, I think the Office of Legal Council's stance of not indicting a president is f**king stupid. If there's clear evidence, then indict the motherfucker. He's not a king.

    We got rid of our king 243 years ago.
    Perfectly put.

    No one is above the law.

    Especially not Donald J Trump and the Trumphadis.
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  5. #33845
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Perfectly put.

    No one is above the law.

    Especially not Donald J Trump and the Trumphadis.
    What I find funny is that at one point when the British had a king they didn’t want parliament ousted him and replaced him with his daughter. Yet here we are acting as though our hands are even more tied behind our backs.

  6. #33846
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryctos View Post
    Nixon resigned before he was impeached i believe it was andrew johnson that was impeached before clinton but my brain could be failing
    Yes, and he was a "Democrat" in the same way that Lincoln was a "Republican". In other words, only if you ignore what they actually stood for and focus on the D and R.

    No-one is above the law.

  7. #33847
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    What I find funny is that at one point when the British had a king they didn’t want parliament ousted him and replaced him with his daughter. Yet here we are acting as though our hands are even more tied behind our backs.
    Tbh, it's not really that their hands are tied. Half of Congress just flat out doesn't want to, because their power is tied to him. Replacing the king wasn't that much of a sacrifice to those in British parliament, but voting against Trump in the senate? That's pretty much political suicide for those senators. Their hands are not tied. They simply value their own good more than that of the nation, if they vote for him when they should not. The British parliamentarians , meanwhile, didn't have that problem, since they were better off personally and as a nation with another ruler.
    That's just game theory/CHIA.

  8. #33848
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes, and he was a "Democrat" in the same way that Lincoln was a "Republican". In other words, only if you ignore what they actually stood for and focus on the D and R.
    Yeah, it's almost like the parties underwent a shift in the mid-20th century.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  9. #33849
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post

    "Current FBI Director"...so is Wray on the way out and he doesn't know it yet? Is he gettin the boot for disagreeing in the IG report, angring Trump?

  10. #33850
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "Current FBI Director"...so is Wray on the way out and he doesn't know it yet? Is he gettin the boot for disagreeing in the IG report, angring Trump?
    Yes. Wray isn't backing up Trump's conspiracy theories so clearly he's not fit to head the FBI. The GOP needs to get on board with impeachment before he can do more damage to this country. Sadly, they don't care about the country and only care about staying in power.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  11. #33851
    BREAKING → The IG report proves Obama officials abused their FISA power to trigger an investigation into @realDonaldTrump's campaign.

    Just more evidence Dems will break any rule or law to rig an election against Trump.

    These crooked bureaucrats must be held accountable!
    https://twitter.com/SteveScalise/sta...468672001?s=19

    This is Congressman making a lie of the report.
    Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2019-12-10 at 05:57 PM.
    Artist formerly known as Shon237

  12. #33852
    Also, there was a preview spot for a Fresh Air interview that reminded me about something.

    Remember when Trump couldn't stop about how much he loved "his generals"? The years he went on about how much he loved them and how great they were?

    At least since Mattis quit, I can't remember him much mentioning generals, especially not positively. It seems he's fallen out of love with the uniformed, star-studded men and women of military leadership as they haven't proven to be quite as compliant with his every request as he'd hoped/imagined.

    Almost like "his generals" were never anything more than a political prop.

  13. #33853
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Wray on the way out
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Wray isn't backing up Trump's conspiracy theories so clearly he's not fit to head the FBI.
    "Obama wire tapp!"
    "Sir, that's not what happened."
    "Well have an investigation that proves it!"
    "Sir, Mueller made that part of his investigation, and he's as by-the-book and impartial as it gets."
    "Well have a second investigation that proves it!"
    "The DOJ IG did that, he didn't find anything either."
    "Well have the director of the FBI get in on this!"
    "FOX News just canceled --"
    "Not that director, the other one! I already fired that one for failing to find evidence of Obama wire tapp!"
    "Well, the other one also says there is no evidence."
    "Then fire him too! How come all these people in intelligence keep investigating the White House and keep finding nothing?"
    "Sir, read that back before you tweet it."
    "This is unacceptable. Have Barr block the IG report and come up with something that actually means this whole thing was a bigly rigged witch hunt. I will not rest until the results of the investigation into Obama find something that he did wrong!"
    "Sir, about the Emoluments Clause --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "The extortion of Ukraine --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "People in the White House pushing Trump properties and books --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "The audit of your taxes --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "Seizing private lands for the Wall --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "The security clearances for your family that keep failing, and sir, your Russian-tracked phone --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "The blatant nepotism of how government contracts are being handed out --"
    "No investigation, no oversight. We decided that was okay. Everyone should accept that."
    "Which one, the Wall contract, the Amazon contract, the Huawei exceptions or the Puerto Rico ones?"
    "All of them. Jeez. Why can't people just accept the results of the President when he said nothing wrong happened?"
    "Sir, we have a conference call, Manafort, Flynn, Gates, Stone, Papadoupolus, and Cohen, all calling from prison."
    "I don't know these people."

    No-one is above the law.

  14. #33854
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    There is a lot to unravel in this reply.

    On the one hand, of course not. All politicians are not trustworthy and unprincipled. The thing that's been striking is the degree to which Republicans have bent to accommodate Trump. That I did not expect. It's gone way further than I expect. They kneel to him to the extent that they let him fuck with their own power. Playing nice to the President by his party is to be expected - Congressional Democrats had no love of the Obama White House from a staffing and coordination standpoint, but they stood by them in public. But what Republicans have done has gone so much further. Democrats would not do this. Democrats have proven themselves more principled.

    The second thing is, and this is paradoxical to the above, what's with the cult-like fealty to Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. These are, as we've said, unprincipled politicians. Since when did we start trusting politicians and thinking them people that should be actively defended, rather than used up and discarded? The manner in which Trump's base clings to him is unprecedented in our life times, and maybe all of American history. American Presidents have been wildly popular and loved before. But what Trump has brought out of his base and the things Sanders supporters say about their guy is straight out of Eastern European Cults of personality, 30 years ago.

    So how do we reconcile this: on one hand, we're not supposed to be surprised in politicians are this unprincipled, but on the other hand, accept the fanatical and un-American loyalty to "Our Great President" (as the press office often calls him) offered by his base?

    This is why I think of Trump's base - all 38-41% of the electorate - to be basically utter and complete moral cowards who I'm not really interested in having a conversation in, and more so interested in the ways we can inflict pain on them in the years ahead, starting with impeachment over the next week. Impeachment that will fail to remove Trump, but is just the start of the things we inflict on them to illustrate how unacceptable their moral compromise has been.

    Basically the beatings will continue until they start acting like goddamn Americans again.
    So all politicians are untrustworthy and unprincipled but Republicans are more so and damn those Bernie and Trump supporters they should exercise their freedom of speech the way I want. I support these 100% above board impeachment proceedings conducted by the untrustworthy and unprincipled politicians because I think it dunks on people I disagree with.

    I mean I don’t agree at all and am blinded by the glaring internal inconsistencies of your position but you do you.

  15. #33855
    Another GOP retiring. This one claims it's because he promised to after 4 terms, which would be the first time in a while a member of the GOP honored their pledge.

    http://a.msn.com/01/en-us/BBY29AA?ocid=st

  16. #33856
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    This is precisely why I support impeachment even if there is a 0.00001% chance the Republican controlled senate will do the right thing and remove this oaf from office. It sends a message that, hey, this shit, not acceptable. The Office of the President of the United States is not a monarchy nor a dictatorship, if you can't abide by our laws while being President, you should not be president.

    No one is above the law.

    No one.

    Which is why, by the way, I think the Office of Legal Council's stance of not indicting a president is f**king stupid. If there's clear evidence, then indict the motherfucker. He's not a king.

    We got rid of our king 243 years ago.
    Except the president. And to an extent the Congress. All confirmed by 243 years of court precedents.

  17. #33857
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Also, there was a preview spot for a Fresh Air interview that reminded me about something.

    Remember when Trump couldn't stop about how much he loved "his generals"? The years he went on about how much he loved them and how great they were?

    At least since Mattis quit, I can't remember him much mentioning generals, especially not positively. It seems he's fallen out of love with the uniformed, star-studded men and women of military leadership as they haven't proven to be quite as compliant with his every request as he'd hoped/imagined.

    Almost like "his generals" were never anything more than a political prop.
    They, to their credit, never have prostrated themselves to give "dear leader" diatribes to his greatness. So their loyalty is now in question. Remember, simply refusing to publicly disagree with him isnt good enough. You have to go in public and wax poetic about how he descended from on high to save the world.

  18. #33858
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...order-n1099071

    Pentagon IG reviewing troop deployments at the border.

    Anyone taking bets on if the IG will find issues with the legality of the deployment and the administration not checking off all the proper boxes? Because I don't want to bet against that given all recent history.

  19. #33859
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Except the president. And to an extent the Congress. All confirmed by 243 years of court precedents.
    All the court precedent actually suggests the exact opposite, in fact. At best you've got a Department of Justice guideline, which is basically a presidential appointee looking the other way when his boss does something wrong.

  20. #33860
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Except the president. And to an extent the Congress. All confirmed by 243 years of court precedents.
    I know you're not the brightest crayon in the box but no one can be dumb enough to have said this and mean it. If it was confirmed by court precedents than it is almost by definition according to the law as the entire purpose of the courts is to interpret the law and adjudicate disputes based on the law. No one's gonna pretend there haven't been terrible interpretations or even some seriously failures to hold people to account but if that's your point it couldn't have been phrased more stupidly.

    Seriously I wonder if half you read what you write at all.

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