1. #30681
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    No, I want him held accountable and I want him to take as many down with him as possible. If he gets caught and he takes McConnell down with him, especially about trading their power for personal gain, the taints his every nomination giving grounds to remove them.
    Just for the record, I was not being serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Three words : Trump Tower Pyongyang.
    As if the people there don't have it bad enough.

  2. #30682
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The US is the most powerful country on the planet due in no small part to its broad and (formerly) quite strong allegiances with other countries. South korea, Japan, the EU, etc, etc.

    But Trump (and the Republicans as a whole, especially following 9/11) has done a LOT to alienate and damage the resolve of US allies.
    A century ago, the Democrat-led United States took a part in ending the (then) largest war in world history, then turned leadership over to Republicans, who immediately withdrew from the world stage, leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

    I think we all know how that turned out.

  3. #30683
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    North Korea is absolutely a "US problem." The US' power presence in East Asia is absolutely a "US concern."




    The problem is that other countries aren't going to do that, they're going to buddy up with the other contenders for World Powers: China and Russia.

    And boy, do you not want other countries becoming more like China and Russia.

    The US is the most powerful country on the planet due in no small part to its broad and (formerly) quite strong allegiances with other countries. South korea, Japan, the EU, etc, etc.

    But Trump (and the Republicans as a whole, especially following 9/11) has done a LOT to alienate and damage the resolve of US allies.

    The days of countries being sovereign little entities that can adequately defend themselves from outside oppressors is over; dead with WW2. The superpowers are called that for a reason, and there will be no returning to "little independent countries all minding their own business." Because once one Superpower starts shedding allies, the other superpowers just scoop them up. Look at the Kurds. Trump dropped them for literally no reason and they went straight to Russia for protection. The US' strength in the Middle East lessened, and Russia's strengthened. This is a zero-sum game.

    Now look at South Korea. A long standing ally of the United States. But if the US drops them? What's to say they don't go to China? North Korea respects China (no, they don't respect Trump.) China can say "hey South Korea, you buddy up to us and we'll ensure you never have to worry about North Korea again. We'll tell them to behave, and they'll listen. All you gotta do is... well, let us do whatever we want militarily in your country!"

    And boom, the US would have just handed ANOTHER ally (a critical regional ally) off to a contending foreign power; to China. And for what? Some pittance of military defense money? To stroke the ego of an orange lunatic? Not only that, but what's the US deterrent to North Korea now? Nothing. The closest ally they have is now Japan. So if North Korea starts rattling their sabers at the US, what is the US going to do about it? Get all the guns pointed at Japan, who will have just watched the US ditch an ally in the region for no reason? Or is the US going to be forced to capitulate to China who will "get North Korea off your back?"

    It is in the US' interest to maintain a broad and powerful network of Allies across the world. It's in the interest of those countries and the world at large that China and Russia do not scoop them up.


    The ultimate issue is that Trump is the one doing this. He wont consider the opinions of National security advisers or military personnel or anyone who actually knows what they're doing. And no, Trump does not "know what he's doing," that should be abundantly clear. He's doing it as a publicity stunt, thinking that whatever pittance of money he saves by not extending defense treaties with South Korea will look good for his utterly crumbling campaign. He's probably looking to claim that "he finally ended the Korean War" by retracting support.

    In essence, yet another example of Trump's sad tenure as president as being a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nothing, that is, except the unacceptable deterioration of the US' foreign reputation and standing as an ally.
    Oh i understand that the China and Russia are moving to take up more space on the world stage if it is available to them. I get exactly what they want to do and i have an idea on how they will expand their power and influence outside of the belt and road, this would be one of those things they would do to gain that leverage. The point i am making is that those nations will need to pony up more and more and not rely so heavily due to the unstable nature of our political landscape.

    I even understand that alot of the responsibility is assumed by the US due to the global standard of the USD and until recently that all trade deals have the approval of the US. But that only works in a world in which the US is fine at home, we are looking at a very odd time in American politics given the general levels of employment and wage growth which will push forward the Trumps / Sanders to push the narrative ( Which is far harder now due to the speed of communications via the internet ). When the US is sick at home they have to pick up the slack or years of not investing for themselves to combat the domestic side of things that is why i have been very strongly on the side of fixing the general populaces ails first and then correcting the international standing.

    Telling people who are struggling to send their children off to die or fight for a nation that refuses them basic things that they see others get due to a reduced military budget is not going to win the hearts nor the minds. I understand why, you understand why but getting the majority of the populace to understand is a whole new problem.

    I agree with you and many more on this forum about the problems with the current administration but i have this feeling the time before the Iraq war is never going to come around again ( Also i am 19 beers down so excuse some stupidity )

  4. #30684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    A century ago, the Democrat-led United States took a part in ending the (then) largest war in world history, then turned leadership over to Republicans, who immediately withdrew from the world stage, leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

    I think we all know how that turned out.
    This century will be worse, since the absence of US leadership abroad will only increase the ascend of Chinese hegemony and all of our economic leverage will evaporate, then we get to hear the bleating of conservatives here about how we have to pay more for consumer goods and how the military needs even more money because we shattered all of our alliances. These people shouldn't ever be near the governing halls of a global superpower.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  5. #30685
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    Oh i understand that the China and Russia are moving to take up more space on the world stage if it is available to them. I get exactly what they want to do and i have an idea on how they will expand their power and influence outside of the belt and road, this would be one of those things they would do to gain that leverage. The point i am making is that those nations will need to pony up more and more and not rely so heavily due to the unstable nature of our political landscape.

    I even understand that alot of the responsibility is assumed by the US due to the global standard of the USD and until recently that all trade deals have the approval of the US. But that only works in a world in which the US is fine at home, we are looking at a very odd time in American politics given the general levels of employment and wage growth which will push forward the Trumps / Sanders to push the narrative ( Which is far harder now due to the speed of communications via the internet ). When the US is sick at home they have to pick up the slack or years of not investing for themselves to combat the domestic side of things that is why i have been very strongly on the side of fixing the general populaces ails first and then correcting the international standing.

    Telling people who are struggling to send their children off to die or fight for a nation that refuses them basic things that they see others get due to a reduced military budget is not going to win the hearts nor the minds. I understand why, you understand why but getting the majority of the populace to understand is a whole new problem.

    I agree with you and many more on this forum about the problems with the current administration but i have this feeling the time before the Iraq war is never going to come around again ( Also i am 19 beers down so excuse some stupidity )
    But that's just because a lot of average people are pretty shortsighted, to be honest. The international standing and internal health of a country are quite interwoven at this point in time, many just refuse to accept that and think they can go back to isolationist policies of 20th century. The US' international standing is what gives them favourable trade deals, access to markets and a great deal of stability - all of which serve to increase living standards at home.

    That isn't to say that all adventourism or interventionism is beneficial. As always, it depends on how it is handled. There have been some serious screw-ups, in my opinion, wrt the ME. But South Korea of all places? That's not sending sons to die for their country, to be honest. US has been there for decades without incident, protecting a rather cozy country as a deterrent, not by actively fighting. In contrast, things might get worse for the US if it drives allies towards its enemies, to the point where people do need to be sent to die.

  6. #30686
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    Oh i understand that the China and Russia are moving to take up more space on the world stage if it is available to them. I get exactly what they want to do and i have an idea on how they will expand their power and influence outside of the belt and road, this would be one of those things they would do to gain that leverage. The point i am making is that those nations will need to pony up more and more and not rely so heavily due to the unstable nature of our political landscape.

    I even understand that alot of the responsibility is assumed by the US due to the global standard of the USD and until recently that all trade deals have the approval of the US. But that only works in a world in which the US is fine at home, we are looking at a very odd time in American politics given the general levels of employment and wage growth which will push forward the Trumps / Sanders to push the narrative ( Which is far harder now due to the speed of communications via the internet ). When the US is sick at home they have to pick up the slack or years of not investing for themselves to combat the domestic side of things that is why i have been very strongly on the side of fixing the general populaces ails first and then correcting the international standing.

    Telling people who are struggling to send their children off to die or fight for a nation that refuses them basic things that they see others get due to a reduced military budget is not going to win the hearts nor the minds. I understand why, you understand why but getting the majority of the populace to understand is a whole new problem.

    I agree with you and many more on this forum about the problems with the current administration but i have this feeling the time before the Iraq war is never going to come around again ( Also i am 19 beers down so excuse some stupidity )
    If democrats had any balls they would simply use videos of North Korean propaganda showing them literally blowing up the United States to get the point. The average person doesn't care but they are also very stupid democrats have been horrible at messaging and propaganda unlike the right. I look at what is going on in the primary and can't help face palm but to be fair a lot of democrats are pretty much republicans these days.

  7. #30687
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Cohen - sentenced
    Wow. To make me look like less of an idiot, I will make the lame excuse of "technically, Cohen was convicted of lying when he said he wasn't a foreign agent". But, damn, I can't believe I missed that one.

  8. #30688
    King tweeted photos of Alex Soros (George Soros' son), claiming they were "strong clues" to the whistleblower's identity. https://t.co/lh5KdxH5q6
    Shocking that white supremacist and overall piece of crap, Steve King tweeted a crazy conspiracy of George Soros' son is whistleblower.

    Of course Alex Soros doesn't work for the government and obviously no access to the call.

    So king is pushing that Jews are trying to attack or in their words betray or start a coup.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  9. #30689
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    House Ethics Committee refers Florida Man Rep. Spano to the DoJ on charges of campaign finance violations.

    Specifically, since Spano's friends could only donate $2,700 each, they instead loaned him $180,000 and Spano paid his own campaign $180,000.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So, let's talk about American farmers.

    Dean Foods, the largest dairy company in the U.S., filed for bankruptcy this week.

    "Huh. That name sounds familiar."

    They were fined millions years ago for stealing workers' wages.

    "No, that's not it."

    Um...they told a bunch of farmers in PA in March 2018 that because of Trump's tariffs, they were buying less milk, and gave them all 90 day's notice?

    "No, that's not it either."

    Two months later, they also fired 100 people in Indiana?

    "Still not it."

    And six other states?

    "It wasn't about firing people. It was something about money."

    Um...they spent millions on lobbying to get full-fat sweetened milk back in school lunches?

    "No..."

    The insider trading case from 2017?

    "No..."

    Um...they have a long history of lying, cheating, and stealing, and now they're cheating their shareholders and fleeing with what's left of their money?

    "Yes, that's it, that's it exactly."

    The damage or possible loss of Dean Foods will hurt a lot of American dairy farmers. Apparently, smaller farms basically make exclusive contracts with who gets their stuff, and Dean Foods was huge and had a lot of it. This will leave the farmers whose contracts suddenly expire with an even harder time getting their product to market, in a situation where (again) Trump's tariffs have made it harder to sell. You'd think selling high-fat milk in schools would help, but, with Trump directly cutting school lunch programs and also SNAP benefits the effect is probably minimal or lost.

    I mentioned PA milk farmers above. Trump won Erie County, PA by fewer voters than I have students. His tariffs cost a lot of them. I wonder if they're tired of winning yet?

  10. #30690
    To no ones surprised stone was found guilty minutes ago

  11. #30691

  12. #30692
    Remember when Trump getting a Nobel Prize was a serious object of discussion by our local Trumphadi contingent?

    Hilarious times.

  13. #30693
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Did we cover this? Sorry I haven't checked.

    Federal prosecutors investigating Giuliani's gas industry links in Ukraine

    Federal prosecutors are probing whether President Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani was situated to profit from a Ukrainian natural gas company pushed by two of his associates, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday, citing people familiar.

    The now-indicted associates — Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman — pushed plans for a Poland-to-Ukraine pipeline to transport U.S. natural gas and said the pipeline was supported by the Trump administration, people briefed on the meetings told the Journal.

    Parnas and Fruman told Ukrainian officials that Giuliani was a partner on the project, which was being done by their company Global Energy Producers (GEP), one person reportedly said. Another told the Journal that Parnas and Fruman thought of Giuliani as a possible investor for their firm, but that the pipeline pitch was exaggerated.

  14. #30694
    Kinda off topic here but other than the guy sea lioning the other day have the typical defenders of orange shown up in the thread? Strange how absent they seem...

  15. #30695
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenlo View Post
    Kinda off topic here but other than the guy sea lioning the other day have the typical defenders of orange shown up in the thread? Strange how absent they seem...
    Dont worry after the senate fails to convit they will be all over the place chhering for total exoneration.

  16. #30696
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryctos View Post
    Dont worry after the senate fails to convit they will be all over the place chhering for total exoneration.
    Well yea the fact most of us know that's the outcome doesn't matter. It's just funny how cowardly they all are when shit is going bad for them like these hearings.

  17. #30697
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenlo View Post
    Well yea the fact most of us know that's the outcome doesn't matter. It's just funny how cowardly they all are when shit is going bad for them like these hearings.
    As I wrote in the other thread, several were banned already from the typical offenses. Expect it to get stupid again in here once those expire.

    I have to imagine at least one or two of Trump's supporters are just yelling "For fuck's sake stop TWEETING!" at their monitors/phones by now, though.

    Edit: Typo.
    Last edited by Benggaul; 2019-11-16 at 12:16 AM.

  18. #30698
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    Trump is not having a good day in court.

    1) He's begging a judge not to let the House see his taxes (he might have just accepted NYState will get them regardless)

    2) Reports that Jared Kushner in his role as Middle East peace planner is leading the charge to seize private land for the Wall are already in trouble. Apparently there's something called the Declaration of Taking Act, which can be used in emergencies. Fair enough, I suppose, except last month a federal judge ruled that Trump broke the law in declaring the National Emergency Lol in the first place, so, that route's also blocked.

    3) Democrats move to block DHS nominees based on, oddly enough, what we just talked about: the Federal Vacancies Reform Act. Trump has left acting role so long, he now has legal issues filling them.

    4) Roger Stone.

    That's one day.

  19. #30699
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Trump is not having a good day in court.

    1) He's begging a judge not to let the House see his taxes (he might have just accepted NYState will get them regardless)

    2) Reports that Jared Kushner in his role as Middle East peace planner is leading the charge to seize private land for the Wall are already in trouble. Apparently there's something called the Declaration of Taking Act, which can be used in emergencies. Fair enough, I suppose, except last month a federal judge ruled that Trump broke the law in declaring the National Emergency Lol in the first place, so, that route's also blocked.

    3) Democrats move to block DHS nominees based on, oddly enough, what we just talked about: the Federal Vacancies Reform Act. Trump has left acting role so long, he now has legal issues filling them.

    4) Roger Stone.

    That's one day.
    5) Standing ovation the witness got in his impeachment hearings.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  20. #30700
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    The damage or possible loss of Dean Foods will hurt a lot of American dairy farmers.
    Long term, this might end up being a good thing for them. There's apparently talk of a potential sale of the company's assets to Dairy Farmers of America, a farmer-owned cooperative. And cooperative business models are something I'm in favour of just on general principles.
    Last edited by Masark; 2019-11-15 at 11:20 PM.

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