Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Orbitus]

As far as i'm concerned entire US is corrupt, top to bottom, with corruption being institutionalized, and enforcement being essentially random (or political in nature).

And if some powerful people might get implicated en masse? Oops, suddenly primary source commits suicide (voluntarily or not).

Coming from a Russian, who's leader of their country jails or kills the opposition leaders or journalists that speak out, this is fucking rich.

And there is no evidence that that the people are dying any way other than suicide, you are speaking of a fucking conspiracy theory like the Clinton Body count.

[Shalcker]

Considering the source of much of our current corruption IS thanks to Russia, yea not gonna agree with that at all.

Your current "source of corruption" is from New York, not Russia.

Not saying they are all the blame of course, the US has been deeply corrupt for quite a while now, but Russians have thrown our corruption into overdrive the past few years.

Not seeing how you justify it.

Do you seriously think any country can "throw corruption into overdrive"? Maybe you just removed brakes at some point and forgot about it.

[Orbitus]

Your current "source of corruption" is from New York, not Russia.

Not seeing how you justify it.

Do you seriously think any country can "throw corruption into overdrive"? Maybe you just removed brakes at some point and forgot about it.

Russians helped get him elected. This is a fact. You cannot dispute this, as even Trump's own intelligence agencies have stated this.

[Shalcker]

Russians helped get him elected. This is a fact. You cannot dispute this, as even Trump's own intelligence agencies have stated this.

Russians didn't change American corruption one bit.

The fact that you have corrupt people in power now? Result of decades of corrupt people removing everything that could prevent them from being - and staying - there.

[Dontrike]

The reason i'm concerned is because plenty of people still think of US as shining beacon.

So because other people think the U.S. isn't corrupt you are concerned about it? That makes no sense.

You know that if we were to find out that he didn't improve at all at golf and was actually pretty bad at it (like with proof be it score cards or videos or w/e) that that would hurt his feelings 100x more than anything political ever has or can. That man LOVES the game of golf and that's where you could really tug his heart strings. I saw a video one time of Trump talking about international policy or something and he did his usually babbling and generic speak, but then somebody asked a golf question and this did rang off abbreviations and statistics like it was nothing. Would you believe me that in that moment he actually sounded and talked coherently and semi-intelligently? Almost as if a normal person was speaking.

That's what happens when you talk about something someone is passionate about, he cares more about golf than he does the U.S., its citizens, or being president. When he talked about his call with Ukraine it looked like a teenager in a sitcom trying to cover up something bad, it was such a bad attempt that was filled with stuttering, repeating, and barely knowing what to say next.

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Russians didn't change American corruption one bit.

That's true, but Russia certainly added to it.

[Orbitus]

Russians didn't change American corruption one bit.

The fact that you have corrupt people in power now? Result of decades of corrupt people removing everything that could prevent them from being - and staying - there.

No, Russia helped get Trump elected, this is an indisputable fact.

[Shalcker]

No, Russia helped get Trump elected, this is an indisputable fact.

Trump is American. It's your corruption through and through, and deflecting to Russians doesn't help solve American corruption problems one bit.

[Shalcker]

Yeah, a corrupt American that got in office with the help of your country meddling illegally in our election. It's not deflecting it's basic fact and that's not even counting whatever the hell Moscow Mitch has going on with Russia. Solving the American corruption problem very much does involve getting Russian influence out of our government.

Feels like deflecting from responsibility of electing them all.

How exactly is it going to help? It isn't going to help you get non-corrupt politicians on the ballot. Russians had no known influence on primaries.

And perhaps you could get some general guards against foreign influence in general? Ones that would actually work? Maybe stop allowing media to publish things from "anonymous sources" to influence elections - as that is way too easy to abuse by foreign intelligences?

Or do you still want Ukrainians, Israeli, Saudi, and Chinese to get in on election meddling like in 2016, and just try keeping Russians out next time?

Why do we have to repeat the same facts to you on a daily basis? Why is your blatant misinformation campaign allowed to run so freely? There's a difference between debating different points of view and debating somebody who has the truth as his enemy.

You basically sit here each day on MMO-C calling water dry. That's your shtick.

Right, calling America corrupt is calling water dry... do you even hear yourself?

[-aiko-]

This is so exhausting. Can it just be over already?

The worst part is that I'm legitimately concerned about the divide Trump is creating with his us vs them mentality. No matter what happens, when a new president eventually takes over it's not going to be a "clean" transition of power. I'm not like civil war levels of concerned, but I think some very crazy people are going to do some very bad things.

[TigTone]

This is so exhausting. Can it just be over already?

The worst part is that I'm legitimately concerned about the divide Trump is creating with his us vs them mentality. No matter what happens, when a new president eventually takes over it's not going to be a "clean" transition of power. I'm not like civil war levels of concerned, but I think some very crazy people are going to do some very bad things.

It is concerning but they don’t realize that the more death that comes From their ideology the more people will see them all as toxic and potential mass murders.

They forever become the ideals of murderers. And anyone with them will be marked as terrorists and constantly watched.

America’s are exhausted of their children being threaten by idiots with weapons. Guess who’s side has hard time saying no to those idiots?

People in the end will chose peace of mind, safety for their family than a political party/ideal.

[Shalcker]

Jesus your habit of twisting around the words of others is annoying.

Well, how about you stop deflecting to Russia?

If you think your country puts people in positions of power who can easily become traitors to decades old "designated enemy", already sanctioned and marginalized, shouldn't you be trying to fix system that produces them rather then hope to shield them from "corrupting foreign influence"?

[Shalcker]

Yeah, see, you need to do both.

It’s weird how you want Russian influence to be ignored though. Really. Weird.

Where do i say "ignore russian influence"?

Stop deflecting to it and face things that are actually results of your own system, not Russian corruption.

[Felya]

Clip of De Niro on CNN that was entertaining and will have Trump fired up.

MAGA bomber did send a bomb to De Niro... he has more reason to be upset, than most.

[Templar 331]

This is so exhausting. Can it just be over already?

The worst part is that I'm legitimately concerned about the divide Trump is creating with his us vs them mentality. No matter what happens, when a new president eventually takes over it's not going to be a "clean" transition of power. I'm not like civil war levels of concerned, but I think some very crazy people are going to do some very bad things.

I hate to say this but I don't think he created it, he just capitalized on it. Way too many people have this "my team is better than your team no matter what!!" mentality when it comes to politics. To them it's like their favorite football team. Most of them don't have a clue what's going on and the few that do have these warped cherry picked facts that support their bias. "Coach X should have put player Y in for play Z!!"

Most of the people I've interacted with in real life are just going with the flow. Trump is on their team so they go with it. Fox News says everything is alright with their team and the other side is losing. They don't question it, they just go with it. If you try to set the more "aware" ones strait and they'll just argue one bogus point after another. You try to explain how that one point is wrong and then you're hit with half a dozen more. These are the ones you see/hear most often. I think they genuinely just want a conflict and don't care about being informed. Trump knew this and did his usual spiel.

On the bright side, these same people who thought that Obama should be "hung from a tree" or "Hillary should have a bullet in her head" haven't done anything yet. So a peaceful transition is likely.

[-aiko-]

I hate to say this but I don't think he created it, he just capitalized on it. Way too many people have this "my team is better than your team no matter what!!" mentality when it comes to politics. To them it's like their favorite football team.

Sure, but by Trump capitalizing on it it is transforming into something worse. It's not just "your favorite football team anymore", for some people they literally think the other team is trying to rob them of their freedoms. It's scary.

[Shalcker]

You said that we should focus on fixing our system instead of protecting from outside corruption...

Never did, stop inventing things. There was no "instead".

It’s literally a function of both things. Stop pretending you have no turnips in the game.

Nope, your system is a function, Russian influence is a variable.

As far as i see, your system produces corruption regardless of what variables go in.

[Shalcker]

Rather is a synonym for instead buddy.

"Hoping to shield them from outside corruption"? You think that's more effective?

You should worry more about your system genius.

They are milking your corruption for all it is worth on our TV.

It's great propaganda material for them.

[Shalcker]

No, I think it’s important to make sure we protect from outside influence as well as ejecting corrupt assholes.

You protect from outside influence by creating system that doesn't produce corrupt assholes - and doesn't put them in positions of power.

Otherwise new corrupt assholes will get in bed with same influences in no time - given that incentives to do it didn't disappear.

[Noxx79]

You protect from outside influence by creating system that doesn't produce corrupt assholes - and doesn't put them in positions of power.

Otherwise new corrupt assholes will get in bed with same influences in no time - given that incentives to do it didn't disappear.

That’s like saying the law needs to prevent crime from occurring in the first place. Will never happen. But we can create systems to deal with corruption and crime when it happens.

Like you seem to be arguing against now. Your entire argument seems to be “let’s do nothing”. It sad. And pathetic.

[Skroe]

This is the most ridiculous supposition I've ever seen. There isn't a single system in the world that doesn't contain some corrupt assholes. As such you have to protect from outside influence so that those who pretend to be all about America and are actually for turnip farmers, like yourself, aren't allowed to get away with their shit.

Again, focus on your own country. It's one of the most corrupt in the history of the world.

Yup. It's worth reminding ourselves. America at its most corrupt pales in comparison to the corruption that's part of the Russian state's DNA.

America's President right now is run by a guy who acts like a mob boss. Not a real mob boss. A television mob boss.

Russia's President is the effective actual head of the Russian mob, and the Russian state is a nuclear armed mafia state.

https://www.economist.com/books-and-...ns-mafia-state


To solve its considerable problems, America needs reform and defense of the rule of law. Substantial reform and a hardfought battle against the corrupt. But well within existing structures.

To solve it's mafia problem, Russia basically needs another revolution and large scale political reorganization. The first and greatest victims of the very people Shalcker has spent many years here defending, are of course, the Russian people themselves.