Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee "Don't bullshit us on Syria"

Members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Monday called for administration officials to testify before Congress about President Trump's decision to yank U.S. troops from northern Syria.

The White House announced on Sunday night that Ankara was moving forward with a long-threatened offensive in northeastern Syria and that U.S. troops would not be in the “immediate area” when it happens.

Sens. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) and Mitt Romney (R-Utah) said in a joint statement on Monday that administration officials must come before the Foreign Relations panel in the wake of the decision, which has been panned on Capitol Hill by members of both parties.

"The Administration must come before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and explain to the American people how betraying an ally and ceding influence to terrorists and adversaries is not disastrous for our national security interests," Murphy and Romney said.

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Wrong side of congress for Trump to pick a fight.

This is the kind of thing that could push GOP Senators to vote Conviction in the Impeachment trial.

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So, you know how some have long suspected Trump uses uppers? Apparently the moron himself gave us evidence way back in 2016.



https://mobile.twitter.com/JRehling/...05950613958658

You have likely seen this photo as it’s the famous taco bowl picture. Over his left shoulder you can see the open drawer stuffed with Sudafed.

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Just in case someone suspects doctoring, here’s the original photo posted to Trump’s twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...97587418247168

"Beyond pupil dilation, more serious side effects include hallucinations and paranoid psychosis."

Sound like anyone we know?

[Breccia]

Reuters has more info.

Trump’s abrupt decision on Syria came after learning in the phone call with Erdogan that the Turks planned to go ahead with a long-threatened incursion, a senior administration official said.

“We were not asked to remove our troops. The president when he learned about the potential Turkish invasion, knowing that we have 50 special operations troops in the region, made the decision to protect those troops” by pulling them back, the official said.

The official underscored that Trump’s decision did not constitute a U.S. withdrawal from Syria.

Trump made clear to Erdogan that the United States did not support the Turkish military plan, which came as a surprise to the Turkish leader, a senior State Department official said.

There was some confusion among senior officials to figure out what Trump had actually decided, a source familiar with the internal deliberations at the White House said.

So...Trump didn't actually give Erdogan permission to invade. Erdogan said he was going to regardless, and Trump pulled troops out of the way. Which would make Turkey the one who wears the pants in that relationship.

"But Trump saved the American soldiers! MAGA! He loves the troops!"

Well, then, consider this: Trump moved US troops out from between Erdogan and our Kurdish allies...but put even more troops between Iran and the Saudi oil machine, to prevent Iran from attacking. So, Trump values Saudi oil more than our Kurdish allies?

[Captain N]

Well, then, consider this: Trump moved US troops out from between Erdogan and our Kurdish allies...but put even more troops between Iran and the Saudi oil machine, to prevent Iran from attacking. So, Trump values Saudi oil more than our Kurdish allies?

The Saudis rent apartments from him. Remember he said so during the whole Muslim Ban thing, so he couldn't add them to his list. Then there was Jamal Khashoggi and Trump kissed the ass of the Saudi prince. We know Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself, and you know he's profiting off the Saudis. Didn't you yourself post something about being Neutral Evil earlier in this thread or maybe it was another?

[Levelfive]

To be fair, manufacturing a problem and then "miraculously" coming up with a solution or fix is pretty much the M.O. of this administration.

I think that's true, but not because of any forethought or deliberation. He blunders into shit constantly, is shocked when it doesn't work and he gets push-back, and then tries to "fix" it (while claiming "victory" of course). He blundered his way into impeachment, both in the sense that the Biden thing came up as a happy accident in the midst of the other nefarious shit they were up to in Ukraine, and in the sense that he thought the call summary would put the whole thing to rest.

I think the likelier explanation for this is the usual one--at core, in addition to whatever other self-serving undercurrents that are always at work, he made an impulsive decision while feeling boxed in to flex his power at everyone.

[Benggaul]

I think that's true, but not because of any forethought or deliberation. He blunders into shit constantly, is shocked when it doesn't work and he gets push-back, and then tries to "fix" it (while claiming "victory" of course). He blundered his way into impeachment, both in the sense that the Biden thing came up as a happy accident in the midst of the other nefarious shit they were up to in Ukraine, and in the sense that he thought the call summary would put the whole thing to rest.

I think the likelier explanation for this is the usual one--at core, in addition to whatever other self-serving undercurrents that are always at work, he made an impulsive decision while feeling boxed in to flex his power at everyone.

Oh I'm not suggesting there was ever anything artful about him fucking up. Just that it's been the way of his administration ever since he started. Most of the time his fixes leave things worse off than before (*cough cough* trade deals *cough*).

[Breccia]

Didn't you yourself post something about being Neutral Evil earlier in this thread?

I did, but, alignment is one thing, cowardice is another. From NBC News:

Turkey has long threatened to launch a military offensive in northeastern Syria, home to Kurdish forces who work closely with the U.S. but whom Erdogan views as terrorists. Turkey's planning for an operation into Syria ramped up significantly in the weeks since the U.N. summit, the current and former officials said.

"He was really slighted," one former U.S. official said of Erdogan's reaction to not meeting with Trump during the U.N. summit. "So Trump tried to smooth it over."

But Sunday's phone call didn't go as expected, officials said. Erdogan was adamant about Turkey going into Syria, officials said. Even Trump's offer of a White House visit wasn't enough to deter him.

Trump told Erdogan that a moderate incursion, such as clearing out a safe zone, would be acceptable, officials said. But he said a large invasion that leads to major combat operations would be unacceptable, officials said.

If Turkey did launch a large military operation, Trump warned Erdogan, the U.S. would completely withdraw from Syria, according to one senior U.S. official.

Immediately after the phone call, acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney called Defense Secretary Mark Esper to inform him of the president's decision, one former and one current U.S. official said.

"Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria," White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement Sunday night. U.S. forces "will not support or be involved in the operation" and "will no longer be in the immediate area," she said.

"We do not support [the Turkish] operation in any way, shape or form, everybody from the president on down, was working on the safe zone implementation," a senior State Department official told reporters Monday. "The president made it very clear that we would not support this operation in any way, shape, or form."

Based on these two articles, it is looking like Trump was, in fact, told by Erdogan "Move, bitch, get out da way!" and Trump did...but he had to scramble to make it look like it was his idea. This could explain why nobody knew but Trump made that phone call -- he didn't know either. Turkey was not swayed by Trump's pleas, and they're probably not swayed by his threats, either. If Trump had the balls to stand up to Turkey...hah, Trump won't even stand up to Turkey, what a buffoon...he would have left his troops there and said "My troops are still there, if you hurt them, it's going to cost you a lot more than it's going to cost me." Now, maybe Trump knew Erdogan would completely murder US troops...and wouldn't that say something about Trump's relationship, huh?...and moved the troops rather than personally enter another war in the Middle East, this time with a supposed ally, and admitting to the world he sucked at diplomacy. Or maybe he's just a coward with bone spurs where his spine should be. Not sure. But Trump's word is meaningless, so when he claims this move that turned even strong allies like McConnell and Graham against him instantly was his idea, I'm not sure I buy it. The call was late Sunday. Trump tweeted 7:40AM. That's enough time to come up with an excuse, no problem.

[Crispin]

One have got to wonder what made Trump cave into Erdogan, is Erdogan investigating the Bidens or does he have anything on Trump?

[Shalcker]

One have got to wonder what made Trump cave into Erdogan, is Erdogan investigating the Bidens or does he have anything on Trump?

What exactly could Trump do to stop him?

They didn't even manage to persuade Erdogan from buying S-400.

[Crispin]

What exactly could Trump do to stop him?

They didn't even manage to persuade Erdogan from buying S-400.

Eeh, keep the US troops in place? Or are you suggesting the Erdogan would attack American soldiers? Get lost with your ignorant nonsense.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/don-lemo...sts-are-doing/

CNN’s Don Lemon clashed with John Kasich tonight after the former Ohio governor said he doesn’t see a clear quid pro quo in the Trump Ukraine call.

Kasich said there should be an investigation to get to the bottom of this issue, saying “it’s incumbent on the Democrats to lay out a very strong case.” He said “the case has got to be so clear about how wrong this is so that people who are reasonable Republicans” are on the same side.

Lemon said, “Maybe it’s incumbent upon the politicians, the people who are actually leaders, to tell the people exactly what’s going on instead of having the president and his apologists shape a message that is not true, because anybody with half a brain who read that transcript knows exactly what the president was saying. It is obvious. It’s not nebulous. It’s not, ‘Well, maybe he meant that.’ You know exactly what he meant. All you have to do is read it.”

“Wait,” Kasich said. “You can’t say stuff like that… There are people that read that transcript and have a disagreement with what it means.”

“John, did you read the transcript?” Lemon asked.

“Yeah, I read the transcript! Of course I did!” Kasich responded.

Lol!. He didn't get the answer he was expecting.

[Crispin]

It's honestly irrelevant if Republicans are too stupid to see the quid quo pro in the text.

[Machismo]

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/don-lemo...sts-are-doing/

CNN’s Don Lemon clashed with John Kasich tonight after the former Ohio governor said he doesn’t see a clear quid pro quo in the Trump Ukraine call.

Kasich said there should be an investigation to get to the bottom of this issue, saying “it’s incumbent on the Democrats to lay out a very strong case.” He said “the case has got to be so clear about how wrong this is so that people who are reasonable Republicans” are on the same side.

Lemon said, “Maybe it’s incumbent upon the politicians, the people who are actually leaders, to tell the people exactly what’s going on instead of having the president and his apologists shape a message that is not true, because anybody with half a brain who read that transcript knows exactly what the president was saying. It is obvious. It’s not nebulous. It’s not, ‘Well, maybe he meant that.’ You know exactly what he meant. All you have to do is read it.”

“Wait,” Kasich said. “You can’t say stuff like that… There are people that read that transcript and have a disagreement with what it means.”

“John, did you read the transcript?” Lemon asked.

“Yeah, I read the transcript! Of course I did!” Kasich responded.

Lol!. He didn't get the answer he was expecting.

That's exactly why they brought everything else into play, like Trump and his administration withholding aid, as well as basing it on whether Trump would meet with him.

You do realize how foolish you guys look... right?

[Ghostpanther]

It's honestly irrelevant if Republicans are too stupid to see the quid quo pro in the text.

Sure it is. Look at Bill Clinton's approval rating after the impeachment against him failed.

[Crispin]

Sure it is. Look at Bill Clinton's approval rating after the impeachment against him failed.

What Trump did is illegal even without any quid quo pro, let that sink in for a second.

[Ghostpanther]

What Trump did is illegal even without any quid quo pro, let that sink in for a second.

NA. I am not convinced a crime was committed which falls under the articles of impeachment set forth by the Constitution. Right along with as a min, half of the nation. Only about half support impeaching Trump according to the latest poll. Not that it matters however. it is mainly the haters of Trump that feel it is. And even Kasich, ( no friend of Trump ) is not convinced a crime was committed based solely on the transcript. let that sink in.

[Noxx79]

NA. I am not convinced a crime was committed which falls under the articles of impeachment set forth by the Constitution. Right along with as a min, half of the nation. Only about half support impeaching Trump according to the latest poll. Not that it matters however. it is mainly the haters of Trump that feel it is. And even Kasich, ( no friend of Trump ) is not convinced a crime was committed based solely on the transcript. let that sink in.

As said multiple times. You’d support trump and not see a crime if trump murdered your family in front of you.

You’re a joke.

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Sure it is. Look at Bill Clinton's approval rating after the impeachment against him failed.

Bush won the 2000 election.

[Orbitus]

NA. I am not convinced a crime was committed which falls under the articles of impeachment set forth by the Constitution. Right along with as a min, half of the nation. Only about half support impeaching Trump according to the latest poll. Not that it matters however. it is mainly the haters of Trump that feel it is. And even Kasich, ( no friend of Trump ) is not convinced a crime was committed based solely on the transcript. let that sink in.

Yes, we know, you are going to do everything you can to defend Trump.

And you didn't see the latest poll, 58% support impeaching Trump now. https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...-a65edc84dbd0/

And it is only getting worse with each passing day, thanks to Trump being a complete fucking moron and opening his fat orange mouth.

[Thekri]

It's honestly irrelevant if Republicans are too stupid to see the quid quo pro in the text.

Guys, stop letting them pretend quid pro quo is the sole relevant factor. This is just collusion 2.0, where they make up an offense and claim they are innocent of it if they refuse to see it. Remember when Nancy Pelosi announced it? She specifically pointed out that quid pro quo does not matter, because it doesn't. It is wrong and illegal without the quid pro quo.

But every time they throw out the bait, and everyone just takes it. They choose a crime that is extremely subjective, and then refuse to acknowledge it, then claim that equals exoneration. There totally was quid pro quo, same as their was collusion, however it is basically impossible to prove if Republicans refuse to see it right in front of their face.

[Dontrike]

Yes, we know, you are going to do everything you can to defend Trump.

And you didn't see the latest poll, 58% support impeaching Trump now. https://www.washingtonpost.com/conte...-a65edc84dbd0/

And it is only getting worse with each passing day, thanks to Trump being a complete fucking moron and opening his fat orange mouth.

To be fair they are supporting the inquiry right now, although I'm sure as more whistleblowers appear the number that support impeachment will only go higher and especially as Trump continues to fuck his base again and again.

[some guy]

The trumpanzees need to understand that a quid pro quo need not have taken place for this to be illegal. Asking foreign governments to investigate a political opponent is illegal. Using the power of your office to crush your political opponents is a thing dictators do. But, I guess anything for the orange fucking moron to stay in power is acceptable to some.