Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Do they have the authority to stop this?

The ambassador is certainly responding as if, yes, they do. Throw in a subpoena, and I'm pretty sure it becomes "no, they don't".

- - - Updated - - -

The Kurds have entire brigades made up of women. Think about what ISIS thinks of those. And a good number of them are refugees from ISIS-occupied territories, some are survivors of rape. Occasionally gang-rape. Do you see them supporting a deal?

Incidentally, this line -- with limited modification -- would also apply to Trump thinking that he could pay the Palestinians to leave Israel.

[Breccia]

Presented without comment, since the bullshit can speak for itself.

So, it's important that we help out Turkey because they provide steel. Hmm. Wasn't there recently someone who --

Trump to require increased use of US steel, iron in federal projects

Oh hey, a FOX News article from July. Would the F35 be a federal project? Because I think it would be a federal project. I mean, what's more "national security lol" than the actual military hardware we use?

Also, fairly sure I --

Promotes American-made steel by affirming the “melted and poured” standard for steel production in the United States.

Oh hey, a whitehouse.gov article from 2017. And I'm fairly --

We are going to put American-produced steel back into the backbone of our country. This alone will create massive numbers of jobs

Oh look, a 2016 campaign rally.

And now, just for fun, I'm going to throw this out there: there's another major US trading partner from whom we used to get steel. China. Couldn't the same reasoning apply here?

Also, didn't Trump just say he's not picking sides?

I'm not siding with anybody. We've been in Syria for many years. You know, Syria was supposed to be a short-term hit

Oh look, Trump from literally yesterday. Remember when Trump announced his withdraw and said "we're doing this because Turkey is a major trade partner"? No? Because he didn't do it until today. This is exactly like the Ukraine withheld aid. "We can't afford it, I mean it's about corruption, I mean the EU and IMF didn't help, I mean NO TESTIFYING!"

Which brings us to the next stage. Trump's claim that he would love to see someone testify is, well, how can I put this...

BULLSHIT

Thanks, Trump tweet. Anyhow, considering what Volker did, and what he turned over, "kangaroo court" just doesn't make sense. Trumply enough, this move is more likely to endanger Sondland by way of contempt than save him from any crimes he might have committed. There's a whole White House counsel, just send one of them. In fact, I think I saw --

You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

Oh look, another Trump 2016 campaign rally.

Trump seems to think that the things he said in the past don't exist. He seems to think that tweeting both his opposition to US steel and also his taking the Fifth (making him look guilty) won't be noticed. And while his rabid fanbase will pretend to agree, cheering and clapping their hands in public while crying into their single scoop of ice cream tonight, GOP lawmakers aren't required to pretend.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, let's hear from the USDA research team.

"They don't exist."

Exactly.

Gutting of two USDA research agencies is warning to all federal agencies, ex-employees say

The Trump administration announced in June that it would move two Department of Agriculture research agencies — the Economic Research Service and the National Institute of Food and Agriculture — and their 547 employees from Washington, D.C., to a rented office in Kansas City, Missouri, within three months.

That sudden announcement and the aggressive timeline that accompanied it led hundreds of employees to resign or retire early, leaving the two critical institutions gutted.

Now more than a dozen scientists, researchers, economists and experts who are currently or were formerly employed by multiple federal agencies, including the ERS and the NIFA, told NBC News the effective dismantling of these two agencies is only the latest hit, but it is the most illustrative of the administration’s intentions: to remove or neuter evidence-based research.

As of now, only 16 from the ERS and 45 from the NIFA have made the move to Kansas City — a very small percentage of the total workforce.

That has left the ERS, which publishes data and research about American agriculture, and the NIFA, an agency that manages $1.7 billion of science funding, effectively crippled. And despite the USDA’s insistence that they are hiring at a rapid clip, many remain skeptical that the two agencies will ever recover.

The pace of the move, employees said, was frantic, leaving many to decide by the last Friday in September whether they would move their families and lives west or be fired the following Monday.

An internal USDA memo obtained by NBC News and first reported by Politico details that the large number of departures from the ERS will lead to the delay or even the discontinuation of 56 reports or studies.

The gutting of the agencies is likely to have a detrimental impact on rural and farming communities that depend on the information and funding they provide, advocates said.

"But Trump said this would save money!"

A USDA spokesperson instead pointed to the agency’s cost-benefit analysis released in June, which stated the move would save the agency $300 million over 15 years and allow it to reinvest those funds to “allow more funding for research of critical needs like rural prosperity and agricultural competitiveness, and for programs and employees to be retained in the long run, even in the face of tightening budgets.”

But a review of the USDA’s findings by three economists from the Agricultural and Applied Economics Association disputes that analysis and alleges the USDA leadership did not follow federal guidelines in creating it. The economists found that the move would, in fact, cost taxpayers between $83 million and $182 million because the USDA analysis overstated the cost of keeping the agencies in Washington, D.C., and did not account for the loss of research and staffers.

“It’s not convincing,” a former ERS employee said, asking not to be identified out of fear of retribution. “It has been proven time and again their reasoning is false. They are throwing this up as a façade to hide their true intention to drive people from the federal government.”

Do you know what else would save $300 million over 15 years? Trump not golfing. So even without lying about the costs, it's still a lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense.

[Draco-Onis]

The Kurds have entire brigades made up of women. Think about what ISIS thinks of those. And a good number of them are refugees from ISIS-occupied territories, some are survivors of rape. Occasionally gang-rape. Do you see them supporting a deal?

When the alternative is death by Turks yes.

[Easo]

So, about the yesterdays video of the supposed bombing by Turkey. Was that real in the end or no? Especially in the context that Trump is now backpedalling on the whole withdraval thing.

[Crispin]

blablabla

You missed the last part of my post

[Shalcker]

In fact, I think I saw --

You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?

Oh look, another Trump 2016 campaign rally.

Trump seems to think that the things he said in the past don't exist. He seems to think that tweeting both his opposition to US steel and also his taking the Fifth (making him look guilty) won't be noticed. And while his rabid fanbase will pretend to agree, cheering and clapping their hands in public while crying into their single scoop of ice cream tonight, GOP lawmakers aren't required to pretend.

Wait, by drawing a parallel you're agreeing with Trump? That Clinton's aides that plead the fifth were obviously guilty?

[Breccia]

Was that real in the end or no?

Major news sources haven't moved on it. Even if it's real, we don't have practical confirmation I've seen.

EDIT: Whoa, nevermind!

Turkey says it strikes Syria-Iraq border ahead of offensive

Turkey’s military struck the Syrian-Iraqi border to prevent Kurdish forces using the route to reinforce northeast Syria, as Ankara prepares to launch an offensive there after a surprise U.S. troop pullback, Turkish officials told Reuters on Tuesday.

Turkey says it is ready to advance into northeast Syria, after the United States began pulling back troops from the Turkey-Syria frontier in an abrupt policy shift widely criticized in Washington as a betrayal of America’s allies.

The U.S. move will leave Kurdish-led forces long allied to Washington vulnerable to attack by the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK), which brands them terrorists because of their links to Kurdish militants who have waged a long insurgency in Turkey.

Giving details of the overnight strike, a security official said one of the main goals was to cut off transit route between Iraq and Syria often used by Kurdish armed groups “before the operation in Syria”.

“In this way, the group’s transit to Syria and support lines, including ammunition, are shut off,” the official said.

It was not clear what damage was done or whether there were casualties. Details of the strike, a joint operation by Turkey’s intelligence service and the military, were hazy. One official described them as an air strike, while the other said the site was made “unusable through various means”.

So, Turkey's not bragging about mowing down Kurds, they are claiming they just bombed the shit out of a road the Kurds just happened to use.

[Thekri]

So, it's important that we help out Turkey because they provide steel. Hmm. Wasn't there recently someone who --

Trump to require increased use of US steel, iron in federal projects

Oh hey, a FOX News article from July. Would the F35 be a federal project? Because I think it would be a federal project. I mean, what's more "national security lol" than the actual military hardware we use?

Also, fairly sure I --

Promotes American-made steel by affirming the “melted and poured” standard for steel production in the United States.

Oh hey, a whitehouse.gov article from 2017. And I'm fairly --

We are going to put American-produced steel back into the backbone of our country. This alone will create massive numbers of jobs

Oh look, a 2016 campaign rally.

And now, just for fun, I'm going to throw this out there: there's another major US trading partner from whom we used to get steel. China. Couldn't the same reasoning apply here?

Oh, you didn't even scratch the surface on the F-35 reference. The whole thing is absolutely hilarious, and the worst possible thing to bring up for a GOP Senator. I honestly believe he said it just to troll the GOP. It isn't a matter of the steel, that part doesn't really matter at all, it is the F-35 program itself. In fact, no US F-35s were ever intended to fly with Turkish center fuselages, so that is actually a lie anyway. Sort of.

You see, Turkey was a level 3 partner in the F-35 program, which is the highest level. The plan was for them to license build the F-35 in Turkey, using TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industries) as a partner with Northrop Grumman. However, this hasn't gone well at all, largely because the GOP congress hates it. Due to congressional interference, largely from the GOP, the US refused to share any of the software or computer tech with Turkey, leaving them reliant on US maintenance to operate it. Furthermore, by June 2018, relations had broken down so badly that congress passed a bill ejecting Turkey from the F-35 program altogether, which Trump (Apparently reluctantly) signed. The next month, Congress blocked the transfer of any F-35s Turkey had already purchased, and suspended training of Turkish pilots and maintenance techs.

All of this was tied to the fact that Erdogan had this thing for imprisoning Christians (The pastor he mentioned most notably) and also buying the S-400 system from Russia, two things the GOP hated.

So no, we do not, and never have, relied on Turkey for F-35 components, and they have been kicked out of the program for over a year. This is purely a jab at Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham for daring to defy him. Because Trump doesn't have the common sense to stop antagonizing the only people that can save his ass right now.

[Breccia]

So no, we do not, and never have, relied on Turkey for F-35 components, and they have been kicked out of the program for over a year.

Wow. Holy shit. Trump is caught once again in a bold-faced lie in public. And the evidence is everywhere if you bother to look!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1R92GC

https://www.defensenews.com/congress...35-for-turkey/

https://www.rollcall.com/news/policy...ansfers-turkey

And of course, this one:

Trump Blocks Fighter Jet Transfer Amid Deepening U.S.-Turkey Rift August of last year

Trump has signed into law a defense policy bill that will hold up the transfer to Turkey of 100 F-35 fighter jets, deepening a rift between the two countries over the ongoing imprisonment of an American pastor in Turkey.

The move amounts to a sharp blow to Ankara, which is already reeling from Trump’s decision last week to double down on tariffs on Turkish aluminum and steel. Turkey planned to take possession of the jets over the next decade, which would make it the third-largest operator of F-35s in the world.

But its cancellation will also complicate matters for the United States. Several key components of the jet are manufactured by Turkish companies, and the U.S. Defense Department estimates it will take two years to find and qualify new suppliers to replace any Turkish firms that are kicked out of the program. Meanwhile, the main European hub for the F-35’s engine repair and overhaul is in Eskisehir, in northwestern Turkey.

Turkey jailed the American pastor, Andrew Brunson, almost two years ago in a widespread crackdown that followed a military coup attempt. Ankara maintains that Brunson, who has lived in Turkey for more than 20 years, had ties to the plotters.

For a time, it seemed the Trump administration would reach a deal to defuse tensions and secure Brunson’s release. But the talks are said to have fallen apart in the past month.

Now Trump, who has been personally engaged in cultivating the U.S.-Turkey relationship, feels betrayed and wants retribution, analysts said.

“Trump … did want to make things nice with Turkey, and he by all accounts invested personally in the relationship,” said Aaron Stein, an expert on Turkey with the Atlantic Council. “Now that he feels like the Turks have reneged on an agreement that they reached with him, the U.S. position is now an ultimatum.”

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, writing in the New York Times over the weekend, warned that Trump’s punitive measures against Turkey would ultimately backfire on the United States.

“At a time when evil continues to lurk around the world, unilateral actions against Turkey by the United States, our ally of decades, will only serve to undermine American interests and security,” Erdogan wrote in an opinion piece.

“Failure to reverse this trend of unilateralism and disrespect will require us to start looking for new friends and allies.”

The best part? The bill, this one, is the "JOHN S. MCCAIN NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2019".

[nonameelf]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KBN1WN0D7?il=0
Just so we can all remember WHY the GOP protects Trump. Let's see how it pans out.

Everyone knows this is the reason people wanted conservative justices so badly. It's also why when asked WHY they wanted conservative justices so badly they just throw out stupid talking points instead of giving a real reason.

[Edge-]

http://www.startribune.com/trump-and...ter/562526881/

Someone please tell the Radical Left Mayor of Minneapolis that he can’t price out Free Speech. Probably illegal!

Donald Trump is a fucking retard. Period. How dare a mayor try to secure payment for an event beforehand when Trump has a long history of not paying his bills. El Paso is still waiting on their payment, and that was last year.

[Easo]

Major news sources haven't moved on it. Even if it's real, we don't have practical confirmation I've seen.

EDIT: Whoa, nevermind!

Turkey says it strikes Syria-Iraq border ahead of offensive

So, Turkey's not bragging about mowing down Kurds, they are claiming they just bombed the shit out of a road the Kurds just happened to use.

Well, my hopes were dashed. But thats to be expected.
I think I will see a day when Turkey is thrown out of NATO, though. They already destroyed any chance of getting into EU by themselves and quite deliberately at that. Greece will be happy xD

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ia-meddling-in

And Senate Intelligence Committee confirming what we already knew, that the 2016 interference efforts and social media fuckery were at the direction of the Kremlin.

Edit: Remember the whole NFL kneeling controversy that Trump was so hot on? Yeah...that was also part of the Russian influence campaign.

At best, Trump is an unwitting accomplice to their activities. At. Best.

[kaid]

http://www.startribune.com/trump-and...ter/562526881/



Donald Trump is a fucking retard. Period. How dare a mayor try to secure payment for an event beforehand when Trump has a long history of not paying his bills. El Paso is still waiting on their payment, and that was last year.

given what happened in el paso I am surprised if any locality won't demand the money up front to host his events. God knows he won't pay afterwards and how many places can just eat a half million dollars out of their budget.

[Nurasu]

given what happened in el paso I am surprised if any locality won't demand the money up front to host his events. God knows he won't pay afterwards and how many places can just eat a half million dollars out of their budget.

Just blue ones that aren't funded by California.

[Smitzelplix]

This is what Trump had to say in regards to Turkey back in 2015 when talking with Breitbart. Perhaps this conflict of interest of his that he admitted to already in the past is influencing his current position.

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump boasted in response. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/confl...b0fc935edf5be0

[Breccia]

Trump is ready to explain his move with the Turkey/Syria/Kurd situation.

Behind locked doors of course. Which strongly suggests that the reasons he made public -- the war cost too much, we've been there too long, Turkey makes F35 steel -- are false.

He'll also give the Senate one meeting, and the House a different meeting. Considering I expect members of both parties to be at both meetings, I haven't the foggiest whey he'd do that.

Also:

For me, the overall sentiment is one of disappointment. Disappointment that we're letting down our partners, perhaps adding to the humanitarian disaster in this region, and that we may be ceding a hard-won strategic advantage to play a role in what is admittedly turning into a lengthy and difficult process to bringing a political solution to this troubled area.

I believe that partnership is important. This partnership certainly is,” he added later. “It must however be nourished frequently and be based completely on mutual trust. I do believe yesterday’s policy shift will make it more difficult to build partnerships in the future

Gen. Joseph Votel, former commander of U.S. Central Command, March 2016-March 2019

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Forbes calls out Trump for moving the goalposts.

After 18 months, it may be good to remember the answer to a simple question: What was the initial goal of the Trump administration’s talks and actions with China? “The original Section 301 indictment the U.S. Trade Representative issued in March 2018 criticized China for intellectual property theft, forced technology transfers, and the buying up of U.S. technology companies,” said Daniel Griswold, a senior research fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, in an interview. “The tariffs the administration started imposing in the summer of 2018 were supposed to bring China to the table to negotiate an agreement that would curb those practices.”

Bryan Riley, director of the National Taxpayers Union's Free Trade Initiative, agrees with Griswold. “The initial stated objective was to investigate China's practices regarding technology transfer, intellectual property and innovation,” Riley told me in an interview. “Some have suggested that the real purpose was to come up with a justification to impose tariffs. In any case, the result has been more tariffs and no change in China's practices.”

What is the Trump administration trying to accomplish in current trade talks with China? “It’s not clear what the Trump administration’s ultimate objective is with China,” said Griswold. “A grand deal to fix the problems described in the Section 301 report seems more remote than it was six months or a year ago. The president says he likes the tariffs and that Americans would be better off without any trade with China.”

“Initially many people were willing to give President Trump's approach time, but as time goes by with no resolution, the costs continue to mount,” said Bryan Riley. “Both sides would benefit from a face-saving deal that reduces the new barriers that have been imposed.”

Feel free to walk back through the timeline yourself. Circle the part where Forbes is wrong. As someone who posts about the trade war thread routinely, I don't see any such issue.

The tariffs will cost the average American over $2,000 and that's China alone. The linked study pre-dates the EU tariffs.

[Blade Wolf]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/confl...1&guccounter=1

Just another of the clearly no conflict of interest additions that Trump clearly doesn't have.

[Shadowferal]

Trumps's little idea of China trading tariffs for dirt on Biden isn't going to happen.
I won't be surprised if China waits the whole thing out until next election.

[D Luniz]

Oh, you didn't even scratch the surface on the F-35 reference. The whole thing is absolutely hilarious, and the worst possible thing to bring up for a GOP Senator. I honestly believe he said it just to troll the GOP. It isn't a matter of the steel, that part doesn't really matter at all, it is the F-35 program itself. In fact, no US F-35s were ever intended to fly with Turkish center fuselages, so that is actually a lie anyway. Sort of.

You see, Turkey was a level 3 partner in the F-35 program, which is the highest level. The plan was for them to license build the F-35 in Turkey, using TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industries) as a partner with Northrop Grumman. However, this hasn't gone well at all, largely because the GOP congress hates it. Due to congressional interference, largely from the GOP, the US refused to share any of the software or computer tech with Turkey, leaving them reliant on US maintenance to operate it. Furthermore, by June 2018, relations had broken down so badly that congress passed a bill ejecting Turkey from the F-35 program altogether, which Trump (Apparently reluctantly) signed. The next month, Congress blocked the transfer of any F-35s Turkey had already purchased, and suspended training of Turkish pilots and maintenance techs.

All of this was tied to the fact that Erdogan had this thing for imprisoning Christians (The pastor he mentioned most notably) and also buying the S-400 system from Russia, two things the GOP hated.

So no, we do not, and never have, relied on Turkey for F-35 components, and they have been kicked out of the program for over a year. This is purely a jab at Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham for daring to defy him. Because Trump doesn't have the common sense to stop antagonizing the only people that can save his ass right now.

To be fair, I feel like if Trump cut Graham's leg off, and used it as a cane while at every news conference pointing out whose leg it is, and Graham will still play loyal lapdog for Trump.