Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Dontrike]

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/d...lass-for-first



So the Trump/Republican tax cut seems to be...working as intended. I'm thrilled that my tax-rate is largely the same as someone making 100x or more of what I make!

You apparently must be numb from not feeling all of it trickle down on us

[Zaktar]

You apparently must be numb from not feeling all of it trickle down on us

I'm feeling something trickle down...

[Shalcker]

Obliterating the economy will hurt a fuckton of innocents as well. Sanction their leaders.

I don't think that in modern world it is possible to credibly sanction leaders personally to the point where they would "see error in their ways"... given that most of those who trusted Western system to keep their money safe are already out.

At most they'll get mildly inconvenienced.

[Flarelaine]

Well, my hopes were dashed. But thats to be expected.
I think I will see a day when Turkey is thrown out of NATO, though. They already destroyed any chance of getting into EU by themselves and quite deliberately at that. Greece will be happy xD

Eh, that would just push them completely over to Russia. Their location is rather valuable geopolitically so NATO will keep them as long as possible with a straight face.

[Kiri]

Obliterating the economy will hurt a fuckton of innocents as well. Sanction their leaders.

That too, naturally. It's just harder to make people understand that. Shelling is a lot easier to relate to. Especially when you one day realize that you spent months sitting within range of an unexploded WWII bomb that someone had just paved over and that could have gone off anytime for any number of reasons.

[ParanoiD84]

Erdogan must love isis, probably there to free them all.

[Breccia]

Been thinking about the Syria situation. More precisely, I've been admitting I don't know a ton about the Syria situation, so I've been seeing what experts have been saying, especially under the circumstances conservative experts are saying, while also applying some basic game theory and MS Paint.

This is the situation now:



Syria is split into a parts based on who's fighting who. Now, imagine if Turkey thought they had carte blanche -- for example, if they called Trump and said "we're invading" and Trump said "I'll get out of your way until you do something really bad" and Syria says "we've heard about the children in dog cages, we're not concerned." The greater Turkish pressure on the Kurds would embolden Assad to attack the same target -- I don't think Assad and Erdogan are really friends but this is a shared opportunity both would take advantage of -- and the end result could be this:



Notice the Kurds are wiped out in this scenario. Assad gets Raqqa and points east, Erdogan gets points west.

The next step could be this one:



"Wait, what's that purple arrow?"

That's Russia and Iran. Considering the Assad is fan of both of them, once the way is cleared of obstacles, it'd be pretty easy for them to send weapons and troops out of uniform (Russia's done that before) pretty much anywhere in the country.

There are a lot of advantages for the three of them.

1) Assad gets basically whatever firepower he wants. The rebel forces are pretty much fucked.

2) Iran gets a weapons and manpower highway right to Lebanon. What's in Lebanon? Some really tasty lunch meat. But also, Hezbollah. Iran and Hezbollah are pretty tight, and they'd suddenly have the means and opportunity added to their motive to strike a currently weakened, divided Israel. Not like "everyone zerg rush now!" but more "hey remember when we only launched mortars and rockets like every other week? Good times...good times...fire 'em up, boys."

3) And this is a more recent development: Iran gets a better foothold to throw shit over Jordan at Saudi Arabia. Until recently, I think a lot of people thought they wouldn't do that. Gosh. Kind of a lot's changed.

Now this line of thinking has flaws, but not game-ending ones.

A) Iran and Russia would have to go through northern Iraq, specifically Kurdish Iraq, to do this. Considering how motivated Iran would be to do this, and Russia's backup, I don't think Iraq would want to stop them on their own. The solution, however, is Trump sending thousands upon thousands of troops back to Iraq in an election year. Guess what he's not going to do? HINT: He fired Bolton.

B) Iran would be using Assad and Putin as human shields, basically. If, for example, Israel and/or Saudi Arabia threw things back, and hit a Russian "private military contractor", the fallout could be massive. "Could". I don't know how much Russia would want to announce their presence. But considering Trump intentionally duct taped US soldiers to Saudi refineries to protect them from Iranian strikes, I don't see Putin being more squeamish. But that aside, Assad's definitely in there. If Israel or the Saudis hit any of Assad's forces while Iran and Russia are in there, Iran and Russia will almost certainly help when the fighting begins in earnest. The Saudis are too cautious (not cowards) to do that for a few hits. Israel...I don't know.

C) Jordan. I looked, but found very little about Jordan and their role I could use with confidence.

Man, I miss @Skroe He wouldn't have to guess at half this shit like I did. Regardless, I'm 100% confident the rank-and-file GOP, especially the Boltonesque warhawks, see the real risk far better than I do. They're probably serious about "betrayal" but they probably don't like Iran and/or Russia getting an opening like this, either.

"So what stopped them from just doing this before? Why didn't Iran just march right away? Why is this a risk now when it wasn't before?"

Because we had troops there.

[Graden]

Well, my hopes were dashed. But thats to be expected.
I think I will see a day when Turkey is thrown out of NATO, though. They already destroyed any chance of getting into EU by themselves and quite deliberately at that. Greece will be happy xD

Nah. Unfortunately they don't have the balls to throw Turkey out of NATO. Turkey is the clear winner here, they do whatever they want in every front no matter the warnings from EU or US.

Greece and Cyprus are also so unlucky to have such a neighbour. They are literally fucked.

[Thereturn]

Trump just singlehandedly gave new life to IS. What a moron.

- - - Updated - - -

Erdogan must love isis, probably there to free them all.

They do share the same ideology.

[ParanoiD84]

The good thing is that Iran is highly against erdogan and this whole thing and are holding a big military event in the region. Perhaps turkey and Iran will come to blows there.

Pretty sure Iran would stomp turkey if it ever came to that.

[Breccia]

The good thing is that Iran is highly against erdogan and this whole thing and are holding a big military event in the region.

Yes.

But this is about Syria. And Iran and Assad are not enemies at all.

[Thekri]

Sent a letter to Lindsey Graham this morning. Thought it was important to go right to the source, and hey, I am his constituent after all. Here is the text of it, thought it expresses my opinion of the entire situation pretty well. Hopefully it will make him think.

To The Honorable Lindsey Graham,

Dear Senator Graham, I am a military veteran, I separated from the military last year after two tours in Afghanistan. I am also a constituent, and a conservative. I write to you today out of great concern for our republic. Over the last two years, I have seen the "conservative" movement in the United States overtaken by a single narcissistic personality who consistently places his own personal good over the principles of good government and basic decency.

While I do support some of the President's policies, the overall effect on our nation from this sort of erratic, chaotic, and self serving governance has been disastrous, and must be brought to an end. I am specifically referring here to his foreign policy, in just the last few months, he has betrayed our allies in both Syria and Afghanistan, apparently on a whim to gain political points for the election. The Afghan government has no reason to trust us now, as we have engaged in open discussions with the Taliban, including the invitation of Taliban to US soil on the weekend of anniversary of 9/11, an event that is an insult to every veteran I served with, and every friend of mine that died fighting these people. Even more important strategically, it undercut the Afghan government we have labored to build for 17 years now.

Just this week, the President, on the basis of a phone call, withdrew US support and protection from the Kurdish Allies we have been fighting with for over two decades, and as I write this, Turkish forces are entering the Kurdish homeland to destroy their lives and property. I fear that we will never be trusted again by any faction in the Muslim world.

It is to your credit that you have spoken out against those two issues, but your silence on the ongoing Presidential behavior in regard to the impeachment inquiry brings shame on yourself, your party, and your nation. I understand you feel that the President did nothing wrong in the initial phone call, but the process was fairly and legally started, and our government depends on this constitutional process being respected. The President has attacked the person and integrity of the whistleblower, called both Democrats and dissenting Republicans traitors, and demanded their removal. He has refused to comply with congressional requests for documents and testimony, and demeans the very nature of the investigation. This is obstruction and authoritarianism. I have seen such behavior far too often in foreign countries to fail to recognize it here, and it makes my blood run cold.

Senator Graham, I am asking you to place the good of your nation above your personal political opportunities and that of your party. I am asking you to do your duty to the constitution. Regardless of the initial actions of the president, his commitment to Obstruction alone warrants his removal by the Senate. As a former military officer yourself, you must know the right thing to do here.

And yes, I do think he will read it. I know enough congressional aides to know how the mail is sorted, and the inclusion of exactly which demographics I am part of helps to ensure that the letter actually winds up in front of him. Now I don't know Sen. Graham well enough to know if he reads the mail his staffers give him, but I hope he does.

[Gelannerai]

Sent a letter to Lindsey Graham this morning. Thought it was important to go right to the source, and hey, I am his constituent after all. Here is the text of it, thought it expresses my opinion of the entire situation pretty well. Hopefully it will make him think.



And yes, I do think he will read it. I know enough congressional aides to know how the mail is sorted, and the inclusion of exactly which demographics I am part of helps to ensure that the letter actually winds up in front of him. Now I don't know Sen. Graham well enough to know if he reads the mail his staffers give him, but I hope he does.

I think it’s a mistake to put any sort of faith in Lindsey Graham of all people. He doesn’t deserve the time you took to pen this, much less your respect. I say this as a fellow South Carolinian (though one that typically votes Democratic) that has watched Graham steadily go off the deep end after McCain’s passing.

[Easo]

So, let's see that "destruction of Turkey's economy", Mr. Trump.
(empty threats most likely)

I don't think that in modern world it is possible to credibly sanction leaders personally to the point where they would "see error in their ways"... given that most of those who trusted Western system to keep their money safe are already out.

At most they'll get mildly inconvenienced.

A very rare case, but I completely agree with Shalcker on this. Sanctioning leaders only has way lesser impact than sanctions for the whole country.

[Easo]

Sanctions for the whole country disproportionately affects the poor. It also gives significant ammo to nationalist leaders in building the idea of the foreign threat that keeps them in power in the first place. It could actually end up helping Erdogan electorally instead of harming him.

So what can you do in that case? There is a chance that nationalism doesnt work and leaders instead gets voted/protested out of goverment because people are raging about shitty economy.

[Edge-]

https://time.com/5694432/girl-climbs...-wall-replica/

So, a rock climber made a replica of Trump's "THE WALL" based off of all the dimensions available publicly and had people climb the "UNCLIMBABLE WALL".

An 8 year old girl managed to do so in under a minute, with no assistance (the rope was for safety purposes).

[Themius]

So how much do republicans care about letting allies be slaughtered because of trump towers in Istanbul?

[solinari6]

https://time.com/5694432/girl-climbs...-wall-replica/

So, a rock climber made a replica of Trump's "THE WALL" based off of all the dimensions available publicly and had people climb the "UNCLIMBABLE WALL".

An 8 year old girl managed to do so in under a minute, with no assistance (the rope was for safety purposes).

Cute idea, but that girl "cheated" in that she used the side of the wall to get over the top part. The real wall wouldn't have a "side" like that. I suppose the wall has to end SOMEWHERE, so there might be a side part, but I'd assume that there'd be something else in the way there.

[Zaktar]

Sent a letter to Lindsey Graham this morning. Thought it was important to go right to the source, and hey, I am his constituent after all. Here is the text of it, thought it expresses my opinion of the entire situation pretty well. Hopefully it will make him think.



And yes, I do think he will read it. I know enough congressional aides to know how the mail is sorted, and the inclusion of exactly which demographics I am part of helps to ensure that the letter actually winds up in front of him. Now I don't know Sen. Graham well enough to know if he reads the mail his staffers give him, but I hope he does.

Good luck, I hope you have a significant impact on his thinking.

[Themius]

I know Graham was blustering about it being a disaster, but I doubt they’ll do anything.

Graham is a weak piece of shit.



Then once he gets elected, he kowtows.