Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Thekri]

Well, someone put a couple missiles into the side of an Iranian oil tanker.

Because what the Middle East needs right now is more drama, right?



Nobody has taken responsibility for the attack. So I'll put up my 3 top choices in order:

1) Israel

The fact that we don't know who it was, raises the chance that it was Israel, in my opinion. I believe they are capable of this kind of "warning shot" without being caught.

2) Saudi Arabia

Iran might have denied they came from them, but launching missiles from outside your own country isn't exactly new tech anymore. It could be payback for the Iranian attack on Saudi interests. It's not like Iran will invade while the US is there. I mean, Trump intentionally sent US troops to protect the Saudis to keep Iran from attacking and killing civilians, a move that was as tactically sound as it was inconsistent.

3) False Flag

I know this is wandering into risky territory, but let's face it, since when do we trust Iran on anything?

Not considered: random terrorist group. Simply put, the point of terrorism is to change politics by force. Without taking credit, you can't do that.

Not considered: USA. If Trump wanted a war in the Middle East to salvage his tenure, he's doing a really good job of hiding or delaying it.

Or the most probable
(4) Iran's Houthi proxies aren't very good at IDing ships. I mean an Iranian oil tanker looks exactly like a Saudi one.

[Breccia]

Or the most probable
(4) Iran's Houthi proxies aren't very good at IDing ships. I mean an Iranian oil tanker looks exactly like a Saudi one.

Interesting, but I would argue that counts as "false flag" until they admit it, because that way I don't have to admit I missed something.

[Bodonius]

Israel dont have a problem admitting to anything so if it was them they would just say it

[D Luniz]

Waiting for when he goes back to saying he wants to release them, but adds on its somehow Biden's fault that he cant.

[Shalcker]

Trump has lost another battle in his war to keep his taxes hidden.

On to the next battle.

All that Supreme Court stacking has to count for something.

[Breccia]

Israel dont have a problem admitting to anything so if it was them they would just say it

Ordinarily maybe. They've done some covert stuff before.

However, in this case
a) their government is kind of in a strange place, and
b) if they start a war and the US doesn't have their back -- gee, whatever could give them that idea -- they take more of a beating than they're willing to accept. Israel is potent proportionately, but eventually numbers always win. Plus it's not like the Palestinians will need an excuse.

[Bodonius]

Ordinarily maybe. They've done some covert stuff before.

However, in this case
a) their government is kind of in a strange place, and
b) if they start a war and the US doesn't have their back -- gee, whatever could give them that idea -- they take more of a beating than they're willing to accept. Israel is potent proportionately, but eventually numbers always win. Plus it's not like the Palestinians will need an excuse.

US will always have their back, thats why they do shitty things.

The day US dont have their back, there is no Israel anymore

[Machismo]

Israel denies or avoids answering about all sorts of things... like assassinations, ethnic cleansing, bombings, cyber er attacks...

[Edge-]

What is the source of that image if it is not photoshopped?

Photos of Giuliani in yarmulke seem to show significantly higher-edge one, not skin-tight version.

Considering it's mostly Russian sites carrying that picture...is this a question you want to ask?

[Drutt]

Excellent article in the Atlantic about what high ranking military officers think about Trump.

You can't even accuse them of being partisan because they compare him to both Bush and Obama.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-trump/598360/

[Breccia]

EPA scientists are preparing to release a report about the risks of air pollution.

"What's special about that?"

Trump fired them all for preparing a report about air pollution.

“They fired the particulate matter review panel and they said the chartered CASAC would do the review,” Chris Zarba, who served as the staff director of the Scientific Advisory Board at the EPA until 2018, said. “In the history of the agency this has never happened. The new panel is unqualified and the new panel has said they were unqualified.”

In response, the group of former panel members reconvened at a meeting in Washington on Thursday and Friday that is open to the public — exactly one year after they were told that their expertise was no longer needed. This group of scientists, engineers and researchers have formed a nongovernmental committee called the Independent Particulate Matter Review Panel.

Under previous administrations, because of health risks from particle pollution and the science's complexity, the EPA has enlisted the aid of outside experts to help them come to the strongest scientific consensus on air quality standards, said John Bachmann, the former associate director for science and policy in the EPA's Air Office. That work with outside help remained consistent for almost 40 years.

Those experts were helpful because the Clean Air Act requires that the standards of particle matter be re-examined every five years with the latest scientific evidence, which is challenging, explained Bachman. Oftentimes, the five-year deadline is not met to ensure the latest science is thoroughly reviewed and related to the new standard.

"Being only seven people, CASAC doesn’t have enough people to cover the scientific issues that come up with the reviews,” said Bachman, who explained that the panels would typically be filled with experts on epidemiology, toxicology, medicine and more.

"It’s pretty clear in the context of this EPA there’s a strong agenda to roll back regulations, and the science does not always lead to a conclusion that a rollback is the right thing to do," said Christopher Frey, the chair of this new panel and the former CASAC chair. "Rather than listen to the science and making an appropriate decision, science is being sidelined."

You'd think someone who at least pretends to believe in "clean, beautiful coal" wouldn't care if an air pollution report was released. I mean, if coal's not that bad, release it and get the evidence from experts right there in the open, right? I mean, it's not like Trump is intentionally lying about the science, right? The man founded a school, after all.

[Edge-]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...erwork-2019-10

So how expensive is "Trumpcare" work requirements for Medicaid eligibility?

About $400M worth of expensive.

That's not bad, actually!!!

Well...that's just the administrative costs to set it up in five states.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...erwork-2019-10

The Trump administration's efforts to impose work requirements on Medicaid cost more than $400 million in paperwork and other wasteful administrative spending in a handful of states, a government watchdog said in a report released on Thursday.

The General Accountability Office — a nonpartisan agency serving Congress — identified a hole in the states' approach. It said the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services had allowed states to set work requirements without mandating projections on how much it would cost administratively.

The report also noted that wasn't consistent with federal standards and the watchdog faulted CMS for endangering its "transparency."

"Without requiring states to submit projections of administrative costs in their demonstration applications, and by not considering the implications of these costs for federal spending, CMS puts its goals of transparency and budget neutrality at risk," the GAO said in its report.

Well, that doesn't seem like it's saving much money...

Probably because it's not, because as with everything the Trump administration does, there was no planning in place nor were proper procedures followed. At least they're not taking money out of Medicaid to pay for

"The GAO report confirms that restrictive waivers are diverting millions of dollars from coverage to bureaucracy – without changing the reality that these policies don't work," Judith Solomon, a senior fellow and Medicaid expert at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, told Business Insider in an email.

Well...fuck. Nevermind, then.

(Sorry @Breccia)

[Breccia]

(Sorry @Breccia)

For what, getting to a story first? Bad news about Trump is like oxygen or gluten-free desserts. They're everywhere. I can't eat them all.

"You eat gluten-free desserts?"

It's called fruit.

Unrelated: remember that 8-year-old who climbed the Wall replica? Well, boy, did she have a lot of company. Here's my favorite:

Another climber, 29-year-old Erik Kloeker, made it over the wall in approximately 30 seconds during a demonstration for reporters. He later climbed the wall a second time while also juggling.

The record was 17.25 seconds. Yes, the 0.25 is important, because people were climbing it so fast, fractions of a second mattered.

- - - Updated - - -

The dates for all four debates are now set.

"Okay, but that's a year off. Why do we care?"

Because we've discussed the possibility Trump will make up an excuse and not show, considering based on his 2016 performance plus also all the shit that's happened since, he's going to get more hammered than a drunk orc fighting a super mutant.

- - - Updated - - -

Well let's open up the "Trump lies about everything all the time" file, dust it off, and see some of the entries I've missed.

TRUMP: "So many people conveniently forget that Turkey is a big trading partner of the United States, in fact they make the structural steel frame for our F-35 Fighter Jet." — tweet Tuesday.

THE FACTS: Actually, Turkey won't be providing the steel for U.S. F-35 fighter jets much longer.

The Trump administration removed Turkey from the F-35 program in July because the Turks refused to cancel the purchase of a Russian S-400 air defense system that is incompatible with NATO forces. At the time, the White House said the S-400 would compromise the F-35 program and aid Russian intelligence.

As part of that process, the U.S. will stop using any Turkish supplies and parts by March.

TRUMP: "We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate, ...including capturing thousands of ISIS fighters, mostly from Europe. But Europe did not want them back, they said you keep them USA!" — tweet Monday.

THE FACTS: The foreign fighters captured are not "mostly" from Europe.

The U.S.-backed Kurdish forces have custody of thousands of captured Islamic State militants. They include about 2,500 highly dangerous foreign fighters from Europe and elsewhere whose native countries have been reluctant to take them back. An additional 10,000 or so captured fighters are from Syria and Iraq.

Trump has said it will now be up to countries in the region to decide what to do with captured fighters, and he warned of retribution in response to any future attacks.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

*deep breath*

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "response" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

RONNA MCDANIEL, Republican National Committee chair: "New data is out on median income growth: Under Barack Obama, incomes rose $11 a month. Under @realDonaldTrump, incomes are rising at $161 a month. That's huge!" — tweet Monday

"Hey that's not Trump!"

retweeted by Trump.

THE FACTS: This comparison is misleading.

McDaniel didn't provide her data source. But her statement obscures the track records of both presidents and the economic conditions that their administrations inherited.

For the first two full years of Trump's presidency, the Census Bureau shows that median household income has been growing by a monthly average of $58, to $63,179 in 2018. That's almost a third of the rate claimed in McDaniel's tweet.

Under President Barack Obama, incomes rose at a monthly average of only $31. But that average includes Obama's first term, when the economy was dealing with the ravages from the Great Recession that began before he became president. Trump took office at a moment when the economy was relatively healthy.

Obama's track record improved sharply after 2012, as the recovery took hold. Median incomes during that period rose at a monthly average of $122. That is more than double the income growth during Trump's first two years.

TRUMP: "As you know

Yep going to interrupt. While "as you know" is normally a trope for disguising exposition, it's also part of Trump's cult-like gaslighting. There is no reason to "as you know" this information, because the information is false.

TRUMP: "As you know, in addition to what we're talking about today, they're building — Japan — many car plants in the United States, which they weren't doing for a long time. And they're building in Michigan, Ohio, lots of different states. And we just appreciate it very much. Been a tremendous investment." — remarks Monday on trade.

THE FACTS: Japanese automakers are not building "many" car plants in the U.S. No Japanese automakers are building assembly plants in Michigan, and Honda is making only a small investment at an existing facility in Anna, Ohio, near Dayton. Last year, Honda announced it would build a hybrid SUV at a factory in Greensburg, Indiana, but that investment was a modest $4.2 million and added only 34 new jobs.

The only major assembly plant being built now by Japanese automakers in the U.S. is the Toyota-Mazda factory in Alabama, which is expected to employ 4,000 people and will start producing vehicles in 2021. In 2017, when the companies announced plans to build the $1.6 billion factory, Toyota's president said Trump did not influence the decision to build in the U.S.

Normally, parts-making companies set up operations in or near the main assembly plant, and that's happening in Huntsville. Six companies are investing about $491 million in the area, creating an expected 1,765 jobs, according to Toyota.

Earlier this year, Japanese truck maker Hino opened a new assembly plant in Mineral Wells, West Virginia, investing $100 million and creating 250 jobs. It replaced an older facility that also was in West Virginia.

The White House didn't respond to a message left Tuesday seeking clarification on what factories Trump was referring to.

Japanese automakers have been building in the U.S. since the 1970s and have expanded manufacturing over the years. The companies have announced millions in investments to retool existing plants to make new models. But these investments usually are routine and don't create a lot of new jobs. Toyota, for instance, announced earlier this year that it would put $750 million into five U.S. plants and create nearly 600 new jobs. It was part of nearly $13 billion Toyota plans to spend by 2021.

"Nearly six hundred" is better than "zero", but it's also less than the number GM's already fired.

[SirBeef]

Party of "I Am The Law!" and "Obey My Orders!"

As if they ever were. Practically none on this board was born the last time they were either the party of law and order or the party of fiscal responsibility. Hell I'm 54 and don't remember them ever being any of those. Bust as usually, anything spewed from a republican is either a lie or projection.

[cubby]

Trump has lost another battle in his war to keep his taxes hidden.

The appeals panel ordered that the effect of the ruling be put on hold until seven days after the disposition of a petition for a rehearing of the case by either the same panel or for a rehearing of the case by the entire lineup of judges in the DC Circuit.

In addition to seeking a rehearing of the case at the D.C. Circuit Trump can ask the U.S. Supreme Court to take his appeal.

On to the next battle.

This is what Trump does after flaunting and breaking the law. Sue and counter sue, and he usually loses - eventually. Interestingly enough, if this is heard by the D.C. Appellate Court but denied cert by the SCOTUS, those tax records ought to be coming out right around summer of 2020.

[Orbitus]

All that Supreme Court stacking has to count for something.

Yeah, that they should uphold the law or fucking step down. There is nothing to be challenged here, the law specifically states that the Treasury department SHALL give the taxes to the House, when they are asked for. Not may, not might, not anything else. It is pretty much guaranteed here.

[Edge-]

https://www.wvtm13.com/article/feder...wful/29442165#

Judge David Briones said the president's proclamation — which called the southern U.S. border a security and humanitarian crisis — was "unlawful," according to a court document filed Friday.

And another loss for Trump on his "national emergency". It's not an Obama judge, either. A Clinton one, but not an "Obama judge".

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.courthousenews.com/judge...igration-rule/

And we're back with a second helping of judicial losses -

Days after skewering the government’s rationale for denying green cards for immigrants on welfare, a federal judge has blocked the Trump administration’s so-called “public charge” rule on Friday.

In a scathing 24-page opinion, U.S. District Judge George Daniels cast the change as an unnecessary departure from procedures in place for “over a century.”

“Aside from conclusory allegations that they will ‘be harmed by the impediment’ to administering the immigration system, defendants did not – and cannot – articulate what actual hardship they will suffer from maintaining the status quo,” Daniels wrote.

He issued a nationwide, preliminary injunction upon the rule, which was supposed to take effect on Oct. 15. It would have barred immigrants who had received certain types of public assistance from applying for green cards.

[Breccia]

And we're back with a second helping

Third. The taxes thing was still just today.

Well, after a day filled with losses, I wonder what message the White House will --

The Chinese Communist Party is detaining and abusing more than one million Uyghur Muslims in internment camps in Xinjiang, the western region of China. The pages of George Orwell's 1984 are coming to life there. I wish the NBA would acknowledge that
-- Pompeo

Huh. Not sure which is more important:
1) Calling out China while the trade talks are going on, or
2) Deciding that, this week, the most important thing to discuss is basketball.

[Edge-]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...x-news-1247097

Shepard Smith is leaving Fox.

Sure is coincidental timing given that Barr just met in private with Murdoch on Wednesday.

[Breccia]

Shepard Smith is leaving Fox.

Hah hah, FOX News begged him to stay and he left anyhow.