Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ntent=business

Now Giuliani officially under investigation for campaign finance violations and acting as an unregistered foreign agent.

He will make a fantastic witness at the Senate Impeachment Trial. What's the over/under with getting Trump on the stand?

[Paranoid Android]

Who says crime doesn't pay?

The scam appears to be fairly basic. The Trumps raised money for the inauguration and then funneled those funds through the Trump Organization and back into their own pockets, and Ivanka headed the effort. https://t.co/dbWpc1S2Wa

Article link.

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/12...mpression=true

We had reports that Trump and his crime family likely took money from their inauguration. Remember that Trump inauguration was most expensive or most money raised.

[cubby]

Article link.

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/12...mpression=true

We had reports that Trump and his crime family likely took money from their inauguration. Remember that Trump inauguration was most expensive or most money raised.

The last I heard about it the inauguration was struggling to account for several millions of dollars that had yet to be spent and/or was missing.

[Benggaul]

No, I want him held accountable and I want him to take as many down with him as possible. If he gets caught and he takes McConnell down with him, especially about trading their power for personal gain, the taints his every nomination giving grounds to remove them.

Ditto. As many others have said over the course of the past couple of years, Trump is just the gross, pus-filled symptom of the underlying problem. Getting him out of the picture is fantastic, but getting him out of the picture while simultaneously exposing several of the frauds that have been propping him up for their own benefit at the expense of everyone else is ideal.

EDIT: I know this isn't exactly the right thread for it but the Dems have seriously been upping their snappy rejoinder game. Dave Rubin takes a serious hit here. It probably almost qualifies as a snuff film.

https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/sta...851771905?s=20

[Captain N]

And here we go back to stuff about The Wall!

Apparently Trump and Co. are just going to waltz onto private property and tell people the government is taking over their land (with court documents). Completely different than a typical eminent domain situation where a price is announced before something like this happens.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm..._ATXoDcMGKm8z0

[Paranoid Android]

The last I heard about it the inauguration was struggling to account for several millions of dollars that had yet to be spent and/or was missing.

Don't you hate when that happens?

[Machismo]

And here we go back to stuff about The Wall!

Apparently Trump and Co. are just going to waltz onto private property and tell people the government is taking over their land (with court documents). Completely different than a typical eminent domain situation where a price is announced before something like this happens.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm..._ATXoDcMGKm8z0

Yes, it's a shame that Trump hates private property rights.

[cubby]

Don't you hate when that happens?

Indeed.

I can't wait to see the Trump family's criminal woes post-Trump Residency. The list of crimes by Ivanka and Donnie Dumb Dumb Jr is already pacing their fathers. Eric seems to be off the radar though. Too stupid maybe?

[Breccia]

Gotta wonder if he's coming up with these policy changes with his large brain or if someone else has his ear.

North Korea has, as we've seen recently, pretty much said "Trump can go fuck himself". These moves with South Korea are all him.

Now Giuliani officially under investigation for campaign finance violations and acting as an unregistered foreign agent.

I've lost count. How many is that? Four?

[Shadowferal]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ntent=business
Now Giuliani officially under investigation for campaign finance violations and acting as an unregistered foreign agent.

Federal charges...hm..

[Breccia]

Rafiekian, Manafort, Flynn, and now Giuliani. Did I miss anyone?

Rick Gates. I'd forgotten about Rafiekian. Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman could also count, I suppose, by the Transitive Law of Fuckery.

[Breccia]

Parnas and Fruman are on the edge of qualifying

Hey remember when Trump tried to claim he only had four bankruptcies, because having three at once only counted as one?

I don't know why Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman made me think of that.

[Auxora]

I've been raising this red flag for awhile about South Korea, and I see the situation there getting hotter by the day. The administration raised the chargeback to the South Korean gov't 500% to over $5B for military protection, which has upset the SK government and public to no end. They also are unhappy about the lack of US response to many missile launches in the past year by the North. More importantly, they are looking at the US (like the Saudis) and asking if the US military are simply mercenaries now. It's very questionable whether the South Korean government will be able to pass spending for the dramatically increased costs.

My fear is that Trump pulls a move similar to the Kurds with South Korea, doing a midnight announcement over a pullout if/when South Korea doesn't pay. Also, North Korea could make some small meaningless concessions to nudge Trump into a deal to pull US troops, giving him what he wants which is declaring a deal and saving the US money for the upcoming election. Then the instant our last troop leaves South Korean airspace, it will be a short time to the North launching an invasion of the South. If the world thought the Kurdish situation in northern Syria was a disaster after the surprise US pullout, this will make that look like a holiday. Everything is being lined up for the US to pullout.

[PACOX]

China is about to slide into SKs DMs.

Trump wants to force people to give up land? Isn't that like a GOP cardinal sin?

And he wants to create a Constitutional crisis by asking SCOTUS to block the tax return subpoena against him. We still have Friday to get through.

Republicans, yall better bending over for this man because he is only looking out for himself.

[Masark]

Also, North Korea could make some small meaningless concessions

Three words : Trump Tower Pyongyang.

[Kaleredar]

South Korea needs to worry about South Korean problems is what the majority of the US will say at this given moment.

North Korea is absolutely a "US problem." The US' power presence in East Asia is absolutely a "US concern."

I am rather indifferent on that entire thing i am sure South Korea has a solid enough standing army to combat the North since they have been not on happy terms for so long anyway. The world needs to start rearming itself to shoulder a greater deal of the world wide security burden not just relying on the US.

The problem is that other countries aren't going to do that, they're going to buddy up with the other contenders for World Powers: China and Russia.

And boy, do you not want other countries becoming more like China and Russia.

The US is the most powerful country on the planet due in no small part to its broad and (formerly) quite strong allegiances with other countries. South korea, Japan, the EU, etc, etc.

But Trump (and the Republicans as a whole, especially following 9/11) has done a LOT to alienate and damage the resolve of US allies.

The days of countries being sovereign little entities that can adequately defend themselves from outside oppressors is over; dead with WW2. The superpowers are called that for a reason, and there will be no returning to "little independent countries all minding their own business." Because once one Superpower starts shedding allies, the other superpowers just scoop them up. Look at the Kurds. Trump dropped them for literally no reason and they went straight to Russia for protection. The US' strength in the Middle East lessened, and Russia's strengthened. This is a zero-sum game.

Now look at South Korea. A long standing ally of the United States. But if the US drops them? What's to say they don't go to China? North Korea respects China (no, they don't respect Trump.) China can say "hey South Korea, you buddy up to us and we'll ensure you never have to worry about North Korea again. We'll tell them to behave, and they'll listen. All you gotta do is... well, let us do whatever we want militarily in your country!"

And boom, the US would have just handed ANOTHER ally (a critical regional ally) off to a contending foreign power; to China. And for what? Some pittance of military defense money? To stroke the ego of an orange lunatic? Not only that, but what's the US deterrent to North Korea now? Nothing. The closest ally they have is now Japan. So if North Korea starts rattling their sabers at the US, what is the US going to do about it? Get all the guns pointed at Japan, who will have just watched the US ditch an ally in the region for no reason? Or is the US going to be forced to capitulate to China who will "get North Korea off your back?"

It is in the US' interest to maintain a broad and powerful network of Allies across the world. It's in the interest of those countries and the world at large that China and Russia do not scoop them up.


The ultimate issue is that Trump is the one doing this. He wont consider the opinions of National security advisers or military personnel or anyone who actually knows what they're doing. And no, Trump does not "know what he's doing," that should be abundantly clear. He's doing it as a publicity stunt, thinking that whatever pittance of money he saves by not extending defense treaties with South Korea will look good for his utterly crumbling campaign. He's probably looking to claim that "he finally ended the Korean War" by retracting support.

In essence, yet another example of Trump's sad tenure as president as being a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nothing, that is, except the unacceptable deterioration of the US' foreign reputation and standing as an ally.

[ringpriest]

I've lost count. How many is that? Four?

Six, and counting (depending on how you count, possibly eight); before counting Parnas and Fruman, you have:

Cohen - sentenced
Papadoupoulos - sentenced
Flynn - pleaded guilty
Manafort - sentenced
Gates - pleaded guilty
Patten (consultant to Manfort, Cambridge Analytica, business partner of probably GRU asset Konstantin Kilimnik) - pleaded guilty, and,

van Der zwann (London-based Dutch lawyer, specializing in assets of Ultra-High Net Worth Individuals, mostly Russians; business associate of Gates & Kilimnik) - sentenced (if you want to count him - he's definitely in the Russian oligarch orbit, not so much the Trump cabal orbit), and,

Kilimnik - indicted (at large in Russia, after leaving the Ukraine to avoid arrest for charges filed against him in the United States by Mueller).

- - - Updated - - -

I've been raising this red flag for awhile about South Korea, and I see the situation there getting hotter by the day. The administration raised the chargeback to the South Korean gov't 500% to over $5B for military protection, which has upset the SK government and public to no end. They also are unhappy about the lack of US response to many missile launches in the past year by the North. More importantly, they are looking at the US (like the Saudis) and asking if the US military are simply mercenaries now. It's very questionable whether the South Korean government will be able to pass spending for the dramatically increased costs.

My fear is that Trump pulls a move similar to the Kurds with South Korea, doing a midnight announcement over a pullout if/when South Korea doesn't pay. Also, North Korea could make some small meaningless concessions to nudge Trump into a deal to pull US troops, giving him what he wants which is declaring a deal and saving the US money for the upcoming election. Then the instant our last troop leaves South Korean airspace, it will be a short time to the North launching an invasion of the South. If the world thought the Kurdish situation in northern Syria was a disaster after the surprise US pullout, this will make that look like a holiday. Everything is being lined up for the US to pullout.

If Trump can be removed before Feb 2021, various axes (US military, South Korean government, US diplomatic corps) can probably drag their feet to keep American boots on the ground as a tripwire until then; if he actually gets re-elected then the situation you painted probably comes to pass in some fashion (the North Koreans aren't that stupid (I hope), invading the South would be a sort of MAD for all Koreans; but they probably will step up their saber-rattling by orders of magnitude, and start practicing flat-out extortion).

[Skulltaker]

No, I want him held accountable and I want him to take as many down with him as possible. If he gets caught and he takes McConnell down with him, especially about trading their power for personal gain, the taints his every nomination giving grounds to remove them.

Just for the record, I was not being serious.

Three words : Trump Tower Pyongyang.

As if the people there don't have it bad enough.

[Flarelaine]

The US is the most powerful country on the planet due in no small part to its broad and (formerly) quite strong allegiances with other countries. South korea, Japan, the EU, etc, etc.

But Trump (and the Republicans as a whole, especially following 9/11) has done a LOT to alienate and damage the resolve of US allies.

A century ago, the Democrat-led United States took a part in ending the (then) largest war in world history, then turned leadership over to Republicans, who immediately withdrew from the world stage, leaving everyone to fend for themselves.

I think we all know how that turned out.

[jeezusisacasual]

North Korea is absolutely a "US problem." The US' power presence in East Asia is absolutely a "US concern."




The problem is that other countries aren't going to do that, they're going to buddy up with the other contenders for World Powers: China and Russia.

And boy, do you not want other countries becoming more like China and Russia.

The US is the most powerful country on the planet due in no small part to its broad and (formerly) quite strong allegiances with other countries. South korea, Japan, the EU, etc, etc.

But Trump (and the Republicans as a whole, especially following 9/11) has done a LOT to alienate and damage the resolve of US allies.

The days of countries being sovereign little entities that can adequately defend themselves from outside oppressors is over; dead with WW2. The superpowers are called that for a reason, and there will be no returning to "little independent countries all minding their own business." Because once one Superpower starts shedding allies, the other superpowers just scoop them up. Look at the Kurds. Trump dropped them for literally no reason and they went straight to Russia for protection. The US' strength in the Middle East lessened, and Russia's strengthened. This is a zero-sum game.

Now look at South Korea. A long standing ally of the United States. But if the US drops them? What's to say they don't go to China? North Korea respects China (no, they don't respect Trump.) China can say "hey South Korea, you buddy up to us and we'll ensure you never have to worry about North Korea again. We'll tell them to behave, and they'll listen. All you gotta do is... well, let us do whatever we want militarily in your country!"

And boom, the US would have just handed ANOTHER ally (a critical regional ally) off to a contending foreign power; to China. And for what? Some pittance of military defense money? To stroke the ego of an orange lunatic? Not only that, but what's the US deterrent to North Korea now? Nothing. The closest ally they have is now Japan. So if North Korea starts rattling their sabers at the US, what is the US going to do about it? Get all the guns pointed at Japan, who will have just watched the US ditch an ally in the region for no reason? Or is the US going to be forced to capitulate to China who will "get North Korea off your back?"

It is in the US' interest to maintain a broad and powerful network of Allies across the world. It's in the interest of those countries and the world at large that China and Russia do not scoop them up.


The ultimate issue is that Trump is the one doing this. He wont consider the opinions of National security advisers or military personnel or anyone who actually knows what they're doing. And no, Trump does not "know what he's doing," that should be abundantly clear. He's doing it as a publicity stunt, thinking that whatever pittance of money he saves by not extending defense treaties with South Korea will look good for his utterly crumbling campaign. He's probably looking to claim that "he finally ended the Korean War" by retracting support.

In essence, yet another example of Trump's sad tenure as president as being a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nothing, that is, except the unacceptable deterioration of the US' foreign reputation and standing as an ally.

Oh i understand that the China and Russia are moving to take up more space on the world stage if it is available to them. I get exactly what they want to do and i have an idea on how they will expand their power and influence outside of the belt and road, this would be one of those things they would do to gain that leverage. The point i am making is that those nations will need to pony up more and more and not rely so heavily due to the unstable nature of our political landscape.

I even understand that alot of the responsibility is assumed by the US due to the global standard of the USD and until recently that all trade deals have the approval of the US. But that only works in a world in which the US is fine at home, we are looking at a very odd time in American politics given the general levels of employment and wage growth which will push forward the Trumps / Sanders to push the narrative ( Which is far harder now due to the speed of communications via the internet ). When the US is sick at home they have to pick up the slack or years of not investing for themselves to combat the domestic side of things that is why i have been very strongly on the side of fixing the general populaces ails first and then correcting the international standing.

Telling people who are struggling to send their children off to die or fight for a nation that refuses them basic things that they see others get due to a reduced military budget is not going to win the hearts nor the minds. I understand why, you understand why but getting the majority of the populace to understand is a whole new problem.

I agree with you and many more on this forum about the problems with the current administration but i have this feeling the time before the Iraq war is never going to come around again ( Also i am 19 beers down so excuse some stupidity )