Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Zaktar]

This heavily cited article suggests the jobs lost due to SNAP cuts would be 200,000 or so in 2020 alone, and the loss of billions of GDP. There's a lot more, but there's literally dozens of citations in that list.

Part of the problem is that the economics of government spending and the economics of personal/business spending are very different, and very few people grasp the difference, and that is at least partly by design.

[jeezusisacasual]

This heavily cited article suggests the jobs lost due to SNAP cuts would be 200,000 or so in 2020 alone, and the loss of billions of GDP. There's a lot more, but there's literally dozens of citations in that list.

I am curious as to why those people want to see others suffer? Also i am sure the entire south would be harmed in such a massive way but hey those 2 guys in the trailer parks knocking each others beers will think this is amazing.

[Dontrike]

I am curious as to why those people want to see others suffer? Also i am sure the entire south would be harmed in such a massive way but hey those 2 guys in the trailer parks knocking each others beers will think this is amazing.

It's the usual case of "I got mine" or future millionaire syndrome, or just the usual people being fucking stupid.

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Damn those Ukranians posing as Russians! /s

Looks like Ohio stopped an election-related cyber attack back last month. What does this have to do with Trump? Probably that they are gathering more info to keep Trump around a bit more. Sounds like a good enough reason to post this to me.

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Ohio detected and thwarted an election-related cyber attack earlier this month, the state’s elections chief said.

Republican Secretary of State Frank LaRose said the “relatively unsophisticated” hacking attempt on Nov. 5, which was Election Day, originated in Panama but was traced to a Russian-owned company.

LaRose told The Columbus Dispatch Tuesday that the would-be attackers were looking around for vulnerabilities in his office’s website.

“They are poking around for soft spots,” LaRose said.

The ultimate goal of such attacks is disrupting and undermining the credibility of elections, but LaRose said Ohio’s election results are safe because neither the election machines nor the ballot counters the state uses are connected to the internet.

LaRose said the attempted SQL injection attack sought to insert malicious code into his office’s website. It was detected by the state’s Albert network security system, a sort of digital burglar alarm.

“The good guys won that day and the bad guys lost,” he said.

[Belize]

thats only half of it
how many grocers in those areas are only profitable BECAUSE of all the food stamp money
This will grow the "food deserts"

Hey, just like for bakers, they can just drive to the next town over!

[Breccia]

So it looks like the situation is Giuliani was running around the Executive Branch, asking for the federal government to help extort a foreign country and claimed it was at the behest of Trump, which is why everyone did it. But we've seen some change in that narrative recently, most specifically, Giuliani saying he didn't have insurance on Trump after all, that was all just a big joke, hah hah, what a kidder, Biden Biden But Her Emails.

This was taken by some people as a sign that Trump was going to throw Giuliani under the bus.

FOX News agrees.

During his segment on Sunday, Hilton

"Who?"

Steve Hilton, who is definitely in the "Trump or Nothing" camp but isn't as forefront about it as Hannity. Yeah, I had to look him up too. I don't watch FOX News, I prefer facts.

blasted Giuliani as an “unethical disaster” and accused him of "trying to enrich himself on the back of his relationship with President Trump."

"You know what, I'm just fed up with the lot of them. Rudy Giuliani was a great mayor and a great leader, but he's turned into an unmitigated and now it seems unethical disaster," Hilton continued.

"While President Trump has been trying to govern for the American people, all these hangers-on have been trying to make money for themselves off Trump,” Hilton, the host of Fox’s “The Next Revolution,” added.

In his segment on Sunday, Hilton called Giuliani and others he accused of trying to profit off of Trump “a bunch of chancers, grifters and spivs taking advantage of the president to do dodgy deals in the world's shadiest places.”

"Before they completely derail this presidency and its substantive, historic policy results on China, the economy and much more, it's time to dump these toxic chumps," Hilton added. “They've really led President Trump astray and I'm just so fed up with it."

Since Giuliani's guilt is blatant, this move -- we've seen this before, "these corrupt criminals that Trump personally hired are distracting him from being the best bestiest best Trump watch my show!" -- is groundwork for not just removing Giuliani from the equation, but under the guise of something 100% not impeachment related, which is why I have to post here and not another thread.

(glares)

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"A Warning" the book by the anonymous Trump staffer pushes Donnie Dum-Dum Jr's book off the #1 spot.

Without being purchased by a mass marketing campaign.

I guess that dagger icon means you got fuckin' cut, son!

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In other news, the manufacturing job report is due to --

Brazil and Argentina have been presiding over a massive devaluation of their currencies. which is not good for our farmers. Therefore, effective immediately, I will restore the Tariffs on all Steel & Aluminum that is shipped into the U.S. from those countries.

Oh, look at that, Trump tweeted. Nevermind.

The ISM report really is due today, and it's expected to show a bounce back from the massive UAW strike, but not to reverse the overall decline of the last 12 months. Even if it did, making materials more expensive will just cut it later anyhow. As per usual, if the report shows any short-term benefit, expect Trump to cite it out of context. Re-hiring 36,000 people is not creating 36,000 new jobs. Everyone here knows it, too.

BLS has a bunch of numbers, including this report, which go back through 2016 at least.

[kaelleria]

Brazil and Argentina have been presiding over a massive devaluation of their currencies. which is not good for our farmers. Therefore, effective immediately, I will restore the Tariffs on all Steel & Aluminum that is shipped into the U.S. from those countries.[/url]

Oh, look at that, Trump tweeted. Nevermind.

The ISM report really is due today, and it's expected to show a bounce back from the massive UAW strike, but not to reverse the overall decline of the last 12 months. Even if it did, making materials more expensive will just cut it later anyhow. As per usual, if the report shows any short-term benefit, expect Trump to cite it out of context. Re-hiring 36,000 people is not creating 36,000 new jobs. Everyone here knows it, too.

BLS has a bunch of numbers, including this report, which go back through 2016 at least.

It didn't bounce back at all... In fact it got even worse!
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us...=mw_latestnews

The numbers: The Institute for Supply Management said its manufacturing index sank to 48.1% in November from 48.3% in October. Economists surveyed by MarketWatch had forecast the index would register a reading of 49.2%.

Readings below 50% indicate business conditions are getting worse.

[Blade Wolf]

So it looks like the situation is Giuliani was running around the Executive Branch, asking for the federal government to help extort a foreign country and claimed it was at the behest of Trump, which is why everyone did it. But we've seen some change in that narrative recently, most specifically, Giuliani saying he didn't have insurance on Trump after all, that was all just a big joke, hah hah, what a kidder, Biden Biden But Her Emails.

This was taken by some people as a sign that Trump was going to throw Giuliani under the bus.

FOX News agrees.



"Who?"

Steve Hilton, who is definitely in the "Trump or Nothing" camp but isn't as forefront about it as Hannity. Yeah, I had to look him up too. I don't watch FOX News, I prefer facts.



Since Giuliani's guilt is blatant, this move -- we've seen this before, "these corrupt criminals that Trump personally hired are distracting him from being the best bestiest best Trump watch my show!" -- is groundwork for not just removing Giuliani from the equation, but under the guise of something 100% not impeachment related, which is why I have to post here and not another thread.

(glares)

- - - Updated - - -

"A Warning" the book by the anonymous Trump staffer pushes Donnie Dum-Dum Jr's book off the #1 spot.

Without being purchased by a mass marketing campaign.

I guess that dagger icon means you got fuckin' cut, son!

- - - Updated - - -

In other news, the manufacturing job report is due to --

Brazil and Argentina have been presiding over a massive devaluation of their currencies. which is not good for our farmers. Therefore, effective immediately, I will restore the Tariffs on all Steel & Aluminum that is shipped into the U.S. from those countries.

Oh, look at that, Trump tweeted. Nevermind.

The ISM report really is due today, and it's expected to show a bounce back from the massive UAW strike, but not to reverse the overall decline of the last 12 months. Even if it did, making materials more expensive will just cut it later anyhow. As per usual, if the report shows any short-term benefit, expect Trump to cite it out of context. Re-hiring 36,000 people is not creating 36,000 new jobs. Everyone here knows it, too.

BLS has a bunch of numbers, including this report, which go back through 2016 at least.

Did Ghouliani not expect Trump to throw him under the bus the second something bad happened?

[Breccia]

It didn't bounce back at all... In fact it got even worse!

I'll be honest less dishonest, I said what I said because I totally predicted a bounceback in job numbers, and didn't realize that's not what they report was about. Damn. I am a failure of a researcher.

Unrelated: Trump, the lead WH counsel, and Pompeo (the latter on FOX and Friends) decried Democrats for holding impeachment hearings while Trump was at NATO.

"But...the WH said it wasn't going to attend anyhow. Like, multiple times over several months."

Yes.

"So...whether or not they were busy didn't matter."

No. No it did not.

"Wait, didn't Trump blame the impeachment inquiry for why he's getting nothing done, even though he's not complying in any way?"

Actually yes, he did.

"...how is the NATO summit going, then?"

Well, there aren't exactly high expectations. Trump is 0 for 2 so far, cannot be predicted (the worst possible feature in an ally) and even though EU leaders have carefully manufactured narrative Trump can adopt because it portrays him as a winner, he's already said nasty things about Macron, so --

"I thought he was buddy-buddy with Macron."

He was, yes.

Three senior administration officials told me Trump has been deeply annoyed by Macron, who recently told The Economist that "what we are currently experiencing is the brain death of NATO" and that the United States under Trump's leadership appears to be "turning its back on us."

"He's been down on Macron for a long while," said one official.

The leaders' "bromance" appears to be a distant memory. Trump has described Macron as a "wise guy" in conversations with his advisers. (He has privately used the same phrase to describe Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.)

Another official said Macron's comments may have the ironic effect of causing Trump to speak more positively about the alliance to contradict Macron's negativity.

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Did Ghouliani not expect Trump to throw him under the bus the second something bad happened?

Based purely on the history we've seen, people are saying "I never expected Trump to betray me" less and less. Giuliani did say he had insurance multiple times, and only recently recanted that, saying he was only joking and he was talking about the Bidens and where am I and who put these false teeth in my mouth?

I think, currently, he's not just expecting it, he's allowing it. I think his recanting could be evidence he's preparing to take one for Team Trump, let the blame be put on him, thereby making Trump blameless (that's the plan, at least) and then being pardoned after Trump is re-elected (because a pardon during the election would send the wrong optics). This will be the infinity-plus-oneth time that Team Trump attempts to look blameless after one of its own members is shown to be a criminal, and honestly, each new time it happens makes this worse not better, but don't expect someone who writes 20 words per page on Sharpie to come up with a complex master plan. He's not the Joker, he's barely Megatron.

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FOX News agrees.

And hours later, Giuliani threatens to sue.

Giuliani said Monday that lawyers have urged him to sue Fox News host Steve Hilton for libel over comments in which he urged President Trump to sever ties with his personal attorney.

Giuliani accused Hilton of showing a "reckless disregard for the truth" while saying on a Fox News Sunday evening broadcast that the former New York City mayor pursued financial deals in Ukraine while simultaneously requesting investigations to benefit Trump.

The senile old man also tweeted

If it wasn’t for me, SteveHiltonx wouldn’t even be covering Burisma. He sure didn’t cover it for the THREE YEARS it was in front of his face. He should apologize for his maliciousness and thank me for the story!

Are...are we sure Trump and Giuliani aren't the same person? Those sentence styles are nearly identical. Me me me, ALL CAPS, the lawsuit threat...

Anyhow as @cubby will confirm (I hope!) "libel" is defined as follows:

My trial was set for January 22; that's not going to happen now. On tomorrow, on Tuesday, I'm going to change my plea to guilty. I think it's important not to have a public trial for three reasons, and those three reasons are my kids

Shit! That's Rep. Hunter [R-Cali] pleading guilty to campaign finance violations. Sorry! How on Earth did I somehow mistake a case where someone plead guilty to campaign finance violations with a case involving Trump's personal lawyer? I Cohen not believe that happened.

This is "libel" for sure now:

Defamation is a statement that injures a third party's reputation. The tort of defamation includes both libel (written statements) and slander (spoken statements)

In The New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), the Supreme Court held that for a publicly-known figure to succeed on a defamation claims, the public-figure plaintiff must show that the false, defaming statements was said with "actual malice." The Sullivan court stated that"actual malice" means that the defendant said the defamatory statement "with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." The Sullivan court also held that when the standard is actual malice, the plaintiff must prove actual malice by "clear and convincing" evidence, rather than the usual burden of proof in a civil case, which is the preponderance of the evidence standard. On this point, the precise language the Sullivan court uses is that the plaintiff must show "the convincing clarity which the constitutional standard demands."

Giuliani is claiming, therefore, that not only is the statement false, but FOX News did it anyway with malicious intent.

Have fun with that, you two.

[D Luniz]

I am curious as to why those people want to see others suffer? Also i am sure the entire south would be harmed in such a massive way but hey those 2 guys in the trailer parks knocking each others beers will think this is amazing.

Cause they are convinced those "others" are mooching freeloaders while they are deserving hard working "real" Americans. The supposed less taxes is just a bonus or window dressing, depending on the level of animosity to those "others" they happen to have.

[jeezusisacasual]

Cause they are convinced those "others" are mooching freeloaders while they are deserving hard working "real" Americans. The supposed less taxes is just a bonus or window dressing, depending on the level of animosity to those "others" they happen to have.

My last conversation i had with a Trumper while i was in the states was me asking how he was spending his tax cut? He could not even tell me how much he saved but he knew how much more his health insurance was but again he was to stupid to equate why. This guy in this conversation worked in Mineral extraction so one would assume he would understand more then snappy slogans but i guess not.

[Belize]

My last conversation i had with a Trumper while i was in the states was me asking how he was spending his tax cut? He could not even tell me how much he saved but he knew how much more his health insurance was but again he was to stupid to equate why. This guy in this conversation worked in Mineral extraction so one would assume he would understand more then snappy slogans but i guess not.

Ehhhh... It depends if he was in engineering or operations.

I have a lot of respect for plant/digsite operators because it's genuinely a difficult job, however they're not the brightest bunch. They're good at what they do, but don't ask them to branch out.

[Templar 331]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...JKW?li=BBnb7Kz

Barr doesn’t accept key inspector general finding about FBI’s Russia investigation

Looks like the king's ass wiper is doing his job...

[Orbitus]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...JKW?li=BBnb7Kz



Looks like the king's ass wiper is doing his job...

I have said this before, and I will say it again. IF there was anything damning in that report, that they could find, they would have released it 2 months ago like they wanted. The Horowitz IG report, and the Durham FISA/Russian investigation reports, are going to be just like the Nunes and Russian pushed FISA memo that was literally nothing but a big shitburger for Trump and his supporters. Otherwise it would have been released sooner.

[cubby]

Anyhow as @cubby will confirm (I hope!) "libel" is defined as follows:



Shit! That's Rep. Hunter [R-Cali] pleading guilty to campaign finance violations. Sorry! How on Earth did I somehow mistake a case where someone plead guilty to campaign finance violations with a case involving Trump's personal lawyer? I Cohen not believe that happened.

This is "libel" for sure now:

Defamation is a statement that injures a third party's reputation. The tort of defamation includes both libel (written statements) and slander (spoken statements)

In The New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964), the Supreme Court held that for a publicly-known figure to succeed on a defamation claims, the public-figure plaintiff must show that the false, defaming statements was said with "actual malice." The Sullivan court stated that"actual malice" means that the defendant said the defamatory statement "with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not." The Sullivan court also held that when the standard is actual malice, the plaintiff must prove actual malice by "clear and convincing" evidence, rather than the usual burden of proof in a civil case, which is the preponderance of the evidence standard. On this point, the precise language the Sullivan court uses is that the plaintiff must show "the convincing clarity which the constitutional standard demands."

Giuliani is claiming, therefore, that not only is the statement false, but FOX News did it anyway with malicious intent.

Have fun with that, you two.

Lol, exactly. Giuliani is suffering pipe dream delusions if he thinks a suit will pass Summary Judgement in court for libel. He'd be hard pressed to find someone to represent him (don't believe him that "his lawyers told me..." - delusions of idiocy).

[wunksta]

BuzzFeed News sued the US government for the right to see all the work that Mueller’s team kept secret. We published the second installment of the FBI’s summaries of interviews with key witnesses.

The 302s are just the beginning. BuzzFeed News is pursuing five separate lawsuits to pry loose all the subpoenas and search warrants that Mueller’s team executed, as well as all emails, memos, letters, talking points, legal opinions, and financial records it generated. In short, we asked for all communications of any kind that passed through the special counsel’s office. We also requested all the documents that would reveal the discussions among Attorney General Bill Barr, former deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein, and other high-ranking officials about whether to charge Trump with obstruction.

In response, Justice Department lawyers claimed the volume of records requested could total 18 billion pages and take centuries to produce.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml...secret-memos-2

[cubby]

Isn't libel written word anyway?

The word comes from referring only to written words, but now encompasses "speech" - which of course covers all forms of news expression. But it would be something that Giuliani might get wrong, given how he's usually wrong about everything.

[cubby]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml...secret-memos-2

BuzzFeed News sued the US government for the right to see all the work that Mueller’s team kept secret. We published the second installment of the FBI’s summaries of interviews with key witnesses.

The 302s are just the beginning. BuzzFeed News is pursuing five separate lawsuits to pry loose all the subpoenas and search warrants that Mueller’s team executed, as well as all emails, memos, letters, talking points, legal opinions, and financial records it generated. In short, we asked for all communications of any kind that passed through the special counsel’s office. We also requested all the documents that would reveal the discussions among Attorney General Bill Barr, former deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein, and other high-ranking officials about whether to charge Trump with obstruction.

In response, Justice Department lawyers claimed the volume of records requested could total 18 billion pages and take centuries to produce.

If only they were all on some kind of digital format that could easily transfer all those documents and information....

Those fuckwads at Trump's Personal Law Firm The Department of Justice could fit the entire set of documents (if it in fact really is 18 billion pages, which is more than likely a lie - how do we know? because they said it) on a single computer.

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So libel covers slander now?

Perhaps not. They are certainly divided in the law.

As you're pointing out, libel is spoken while slander is written. Good catch.

[wunksta]

If only they were all on some kind of digital format that could easily transfer all those documents and information....

Those fuckwads at Trump's Personal Law Firm The Department of Justice could fit the entire set of documents (if it in fact really is 18 billion pages, which is more than likely a lie - how do we know? because they said it) on a single computer.

Haha I was just doing the calculations before I looked at your link. It's hard to say exactly since PDFs could vary in size but one person mentioned having a 877 page pdf that was 6.8MB in size. 18 billion pages with that average size would be 139,566,702‬ MB or 139 terabytes.

And yes, everything should already be scanned and digitized. I guess the hard part would be going back through and classifying material.

[Fugus]

@Breccia

You are much more active than me on here. Has this been brought up yet?

Trump had also held up aid for Lebanon for months and I found out about it just a few days ago only to it now also get released.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/whit...85h8_ilr0W7CZw


I remember wondering if all of a sudden Lebanon was going to start announcing investigations into the Bidens, Warren or Sanders or we would suddenly have troll and/or hacker farms starting to operate from there targeting us.

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Yeah, the biggest issue with releasing the documents will be redacting them. Claiming there are 18 billion pages though... it just makes you wonder what all is in there that wasn't covered in the report. And there's no provision in the FOIA that says if it's too many pages you get to ignore the law. The DoJ needs to stop defending Trump and start upholding the fucking law.

I honestly don't see how that is possible. While yes, he had a sizable crew to do all this over all that time, I doubt it would take longer to print the documents out than it did to actually research and create them all in the first place.

[Orbitus]

@Breccia

You are much more active than me on here. Has this been brought up yet?

Trump had also held up aid for Lebanon for months and I found out about it just a few days ago only to it now also get released.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/whit...85h8_ilr0W7CZw


I remember wondering if all of a sudden Lebanon was going to start announcing investigations into the Bidens, Warren or Sanders or we would suddenly have troll and/or hacker farms starting to operate from there targeting us.

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I honestly don't see how that is possible. While yes, he had a sizable crew to do all this over all that time, I doubt it would take longer to print the documents out than it did to actually research and create them all in the first place.

I remember the Lebanon aid being mentioned once or twice, but there was no reason it was mentioned yet.