Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[TigTone]

Yes and no. They fall within the age/health/healthcare demographic but tend to live in more rural, isolated areas (hence the xenophobia) whereas it's the big, liberal cities where people are practically stacked on each other that will likely be hit hardest.

Thank you for that info.

[Benggaul]

https://twitter.com/politvidchannel/...51184340271104

Katie Porter is a beast when it comes to things like this. EVERYONE should be afraid to be questioned by her.

I was going to post this. We'll see if the people involved follow through instead of just making the right noises in front of a camera, but it sounds like it's a huge push to getting free testing/treatment for everyone.

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Thank you for that info.

Don't take it as gospel as it's just my opinion, but I feel it's at least based in fact/reality.

[Orbitus]

I was going to post this. We'll see if the people involved follow through instead of just making the right noises in front of a camera, but it sounds like it's a huge push to getting free testing/treatment for everyone.

Considering the head of HHS, Alex Azar is a pharmaceutical lobbyist that was appointed to that job, I wouldn't be surprised if nothing happens and a lot of people get testing they can't afford, even if they should get tested.

[Breccia]

There's also this, where Pence, without naming names, criticizes people for downplaying the severity of this coronavirus. One could easily make the argument that he's referring to his boss here.

I missed that. But as it so happens, I have an English-to-Trump dictionary right here.

(flip flip flip)

It says "Fuck you fatty, I'm bulletproof."

Vice President Mike Pence said Thursday that there has been “irresponsible rhetoric” from people who have downplayed the seriousness of the U.S. coronavirus outbreak.

In an interview on the “TODAY” show, Savannah Guthrie asked what message Pence sends to people who aren’t afraid of the coronavirus and think it’s just politics and hype, quoting from President Donald Trump who said on Monday that the “fake news media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything to inflame the coronavirus situation.”

“There's been some irresponsible rhetoric, but the American people should know President Trump has no higher priority than the health and safety and well being of the people of this country,” Pence said in response but it was not clear who he was referring to.

By the way, if Trump has no higher priority than American health,
1) Why is he throwing out the ACA? Wouldn't now be a good reason to stop his active court case?
2) Why did he lie about it last night?
3) Why are his defenders using hyperbolic strawmen like "you're saying Clinton would have blocked it?"
4) Why did he suggest a flu vaccine?
5) Why did he not know the flu killed tens of thousands of Americans?
6) Why did he put Pence in charge? Pence is not a doctor.
7) Why did he say "it's one person from China, contained, April Lol"?
8) Where is that Democratic opposition to closing the borders? I'm still waiting on that.
9) Where was that motivation when the measles outbreak happened?
10) Why did his budget cut health, such as the CDC?
11) Why did he fire Tom Bossert?
12) Why doesn't his bloated fat ass put down the Big Macs and get on a treadmill?
13) Why did he suggest he could cure cancer and AIDS in his second term?

I'm doing this from memory, people. There's probably more.

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Considering the head of HHS, Alex Azar is a pharmaceutical lobbyist that was appointed to that job

Actually, that guy went through some shit with W in 2001. Yeah, he's a lawyer not a doctor, but at least he's experienced with doctors. Remember the anthrax scare of 2001? He was with HHS on that. Granted, he was their lawyer, but it's better than most of Trump's staff.

"It could be worse" is not an ironclad defense. Don't mistake my acceptance in this case for endorsement.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/sta...23648516526082

Marty Kady - Sen. Tom Cotton release this morning: "We will emerge stronger from this challenge, we will hold accountable those who inflicted it on the world." What does that mean?

Comfortably Smug - It means China will pay for this

Tom Cotton - Correct

What the fuck does this even mean? Pay for what? Pay how? Are we talking like, military action? Economic sanctions? Are we gonna make China pay for this like Trump is making Mexico pay for "THE WALL"?

What the fuck does this even fucking mean?

[Orbitus]

https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/sta...23648516526082



What the fuck does this even mean? Pay for what? Pay how? Are we talking like, military action? Economic sanctions? Are we gonna make China pay for this like Trump is making Mexico pay for "THE WALL"?

What the fuck does this even fucking mean?

So, he wants more sanctions/tariffs on China for this? Or does he want a global depression? Not a recession, but a depression. Because if he does that, I guarantee that is what would happen. Because China and Xi will just LAUGH in his retarded face.

[eschatological]

If Hilary was President, we'd have no COVID here?

There are various fatality rates, based on pandemic response. Responsible places, like most of the EU (and even Turkey which doesn't even have confirmed cases yet) the fatality rate is anywhere from .1% (flu level) to .5%. In places where the response has been tepid or even just too slow, the rate can be as high as 3.5% - or 35x the lethality of the flu, with equal ability to spread.

So yes, policy response absolutely matters. You don't have to look further than Wuhan, and then the other outlying areas of China where they managed to get a handle on new cases before exponential growth overwhelmed the system. And Hillary would have been much better at this.

[Thepersona]

https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/sta...23648516526082



What the fuck does this even mean? Pay for what? Pay how? Are we talking like, military action? Economic sanctions? Are we gonna make China pay for this like Trump is making Mexico pay for "THE WALL"?

What the fuck does this even fucking mean?

WTF? Why the fuck they're trying to make China pay for the spread of a FUCKING VIRUS?

[Edge-]

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/...avirus/607900/

Good article pointing out something I've been increasingly noticing. Conservatives love framing the coronavirus as the "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese coronavirus" or "foreign virus" very, very, very frequently.

Unsurprisingly, it's part of a long history of outbreaks being springboards for racists to be racists. The article goes into a lot of historical detail/context on this and how these names are intentionally used by conservatives, rather than the WHO designated covid-19, to express their racist and xenophobic sentiments to their fellow racists and xenophobes.

[PhaelixWW]

There are various fatality rates, based on pandemic response. Responsible places, like most of the EU (and even Turkey which doesn't even have confirmed cases yet) the fatality rate is anywhere from .1% (flu level) to .5%. In places where the response has been tepid or even just too slow, the rate can be as high as 3.5% - or 35x the lethality of the flu, with equal ability to spread.

Incorrect on this last bit. This will likely spread farther and wider than the flu, as there are no vaccines and no prior exposures to build up antibodies. The CDC estimates that there are about 30 million or so flu illnesses per year, but this virus has the potential to infect upwards of 10x that number.

[Noxx79]

WTF? Why the fuck they're trying to make China pay for the spread of a FUCKING VIRUS?

And if I’m not mistaken, aren’t pretty much all of the initial cases we’re seeing in America from an American coming from an infected area and bringing it to the states?

The Chinese didn’t come here and start licking everything. We didn’t need them spread our own diseases thank you very much.

[Zan15]

I commented on this before. I'll rephrase because it's easier than quoting myself.

Pence is not taking the Scapegoat title to heart. He's actually attacking the situation aggressively. In fact, why didn't Pence talk to the nation? Right now, I don't think anyone would defend Trump's performance.

But right now, especially after last night, saying "Pence, you screwed up, you're fired" will fail for multiple reasons.

1) That's illegal. Pence was elected.

2) Pence now has a strong, visible record of attacking the problem.

3) Pence wasn't in charge early, when Trump claims he took strong action the Democrats opposed. Hey, any citation on that yet? It's been weeks...

4) Pence didn't address the nation. It's hard to say Pence screwed up when Trump says "I will do XXX and XXX and..."

5) Trump removing Pence, who is basically his only remaining link to the classic Republican Party, will be a slap in the face that will alarm enough lawmakers. They won't vote to impeach, but they might suddenly remember they have families to spend time with.

6) If Pence was going to resign on moral or ethical grounds, he had hundreds of chances before now.

Not technically illegal because asking him to resign is not technically firing him...

Trump can insanely make any chance pence has in politics in the future downright misrable including his presidential chances
Though Pence might actually benefit from sticking it out and becoming a full on opponent to trumps actions....finally...


who knows.

[alexw]

https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/sta...23648516526082



What the fuck does this even mean? Pay for what? Pay how? Are we talking like, military action? Economic sanctions? Are we gonna make China pay for this like Trump is making Mexico pay for "THE WALL"?

What the fuck does this even fucking mean?

Its scapegoating.

They want to try and redirect blame away from themselves.

"Don't blame us for doing nothing and turning a potential disaster into a real one, blame China instead".

[Paranoid Android]

https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/...avirus/607900/

Good article pointing out something I've been increasingly noticing. Conservatives love framing the coronavirus as the "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese coronavirus" or "foreign virus" very, very, very frequently.

Unsurprisingly, it's part of a long history of outbreaks being springboards for racists to be racists. The article goes into a lot of historical detail/context on this and how these names are intentionally used by conservatives, rather than the WHO designated covid-19, to express their racist and xenophobic sentiments to their fellow racists and xenophobes.

Well they have to scare their sheep. Instilling fear and hate is how you control your crowd. Both you, I and others know this is how they win elections and political debate.

A little off topic but still laughable that they turned people on poor, mostly brown or nonwhite people, into the evil-doers of taking der jerbs! While corporations move jobs overseas, automate and cut jobs for profit at a much more devastating practice.

Oh! even wherever it originated is so stupid, cause of the world we live in it don't matter where a pandemic comes from. Yes, I could get into that it would likely come form people who live in more unsettled areas, with contact to "exotic" animals or plants that may pass a disease onto us. The west definitely see themselves as more "civilized" and yes Europe is settled and not much more for possible contacts of disease.

[PhaelixWW]

Aaaand the DOW just dipped below 21000, for -2500 on the day.

EDIT: Though it looks like that was after the bell struck on the NYSE day, so the official EoD is 21200, "only" -2350 down.

Day's tally:

DOW: close @ 21200.62, -2350 on the day, -28.3% drop from the high on 2/12
NASDAQ: close @ 7201.80, -750 on the day, -26.6% drop from the high on 2/19
S&P 500: close @ 2480.64, -260 on the day, -26.7% drop from the high on 2/19.

So I guess it's a for-real official bear market now.

[solinari6]

Well there have been talks that Trump wanted to replace Pence in his second term with Nikki Haley. Maybe this is his way of getting rid of him?

[Edge-]

Well there have been talks that Trump wanted to replace Pence in his second term with Nikki Haley. Maybe this is his way of getting rid of him?

I still don't buy that bullshit for a single second. Last I remember his base FUCKING HATES Haley, no way he's risking pissing them off to replace Pence who has been nothing but a stalwart lapdog and whipping boy, and who keeps the evangelicals giddy.

[eschatological]

Incorrect on this last bit. This will likely spread farther and wider than the flu, as there are no vaccines and no prior exposures to build up antibodies. The CDC estimates that there are about 30 million or so flu illnesses per year, but this virus has the potential to infect upwards of 10x that number.

It has the same vectors as the flu, I guess I should have said. But you are correct, it is likely to infect quite a few more people than the regular flu. I've heard 70% of the American public.

Compare and contrast the two H1N1 pandemics, the swine flu - which had a 0.01%-0.08% fatality rate (less than a flu) - and the Spanish flu (anywhere from a 3%-10% mortality rate), the latter of which infected 500m people and killed anywhere from 17m to 50m people (estimates were hard).

In the U.S., 59m people caught swine flu in 2009, 265k required hospitalization, and 12k died - for a fatality rate of 0.002 or 0.2%, slightly worse than the flu. This was under a competent response - the first U.S. cases were recorded on April 17th, with the first death on April 28th. Obama, who had been in office less than 3 months, activated the CDC's EOC on April 22nd, 5 days after the first confirmed case, on the 25th WHO declared it a public health emergency. Keep in mind, in this pandemic, Mexico and the U.S. were the leading edge of the pandemic, and Obama swiftly and assuredly handled it, and it amounted to about a slightly more severe flu season.

[Zan15]

If this was happening in August, you'd have a point.

But the virus will fizzle out, markets will stabilize/rebound, and he will handle Dementia Joe pretty easily.

Governments are really overreacting to something that is basically a nonfactor to healthy individuals below the age of 60. But it will be barely a news item by summer, just watch.

oh here we go again. How old are you? Dementia joe? Really?

wasn't Hillary supposed to be dead by now...she was dying right??

hmm, it wasn't "just the flu" when Hillary got it....it was the end of the world, the worst thing for a presidential candidate…

I do agree on the stabilization and rebound, but we are still 8 days behind other countries rate pattern so this has not peaked by any means.

and if you expect corporations not to start to freak out and cut cut cut everything they can....exacerbating the stock market problems over the next quarter, you sir are oblivious to reality.

[alexw]

No, it'd likely still be here. It'd just be handled far more competently.

Though you are now falling into the same insanity consuming the rest of the Trump cult, defending Trumps horrible job by whining about a hypothetical Clinton presidency, something I brought up yesterday. You are so invested in the idea that Trump is the greatest president ever you can't ever admit he's fucked up even when it's blatantly obvious that he did.

Indeed. The Trump administration has pretty much spent the last 3-4 years coasting along. Nothing has come along up to now to challenge them so they've gotten away with it.

But now there is a real crisis in motion that required a competent pro-active administration months ago and they've shown just how incompetent and lacking they really are.

Compare and contrast that to how the Obama administation put together a coordinated global response to contain and prevent the Ebola outbreak from spreading beyond the region.

Now I don't know if this coronovirus could have been stopped similarly but Trump and his team of incompetents have just sat on their hands twiddling their thumbs for the last three months, and that's led to precisely this point. Whatever chance of stopping this has been lost. Both globally and on a national level.

There are dangers to installing incompetents and opportunistic grifters into the presidency and its administration and those have now been realized.

We are all going to pay the price for that.

And those who have enabled this outcome by supporting and voting for Trump ought to reflect on what they've done.

You've basically voted to kill millions of your fellow citizens.