Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Acidbaron]

They started bombing the next day and said they had no intentions in keeping their word. They wanted US troops out, then once announced, started bombing the government we put in place. There is something happening now, with around 50 dead in a Taliban attack in Afghanistan. US is demanding they return to talks... they don’t seem to care...

Trump, Qatar's emir talk amid Taliban attacks across Afghanistan
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...063220102.html

It is what many feared would happen and some even predicted, all they wanted was the US to leave so they could move in easier.
Fully expect schools to be bombed again, as the Taliban does not like people educated.

[Breccia]

is apparently getting angry that he can't leave the White House.

Well someone needs $130,000 in relief funds, AM I RIGHT BOYS

Meanwhile, Mike Pence -- remember, he's in charge -- pushed the goalposts further, saying the coronavirus could be basically over by June. Not Easter. And not even May.

I truly do believe if current trend lines hold, that by early June, we could largely have this coronavirus epidemic behind us, and begin to see our nation open back up and go back to work.

There is a high likelihood that if you’ve had this coronavirus in the past, that you will enjoy some immunity from it in the future. It’s among the reasons why our nation, should the coronavirus reemerge at any time in the future, our nation will be in a much better place.

If some of those early studies hold out, there will be an awful lot of Americans in the fall and in the winter of next year that actually enjoy a degree of immunity from the coronavirus. That will be a bulwark against this.

Now it's true that immunity, such as a vaccine, will help stomp flat a second wave. I think having a widespread vaccine by fall would be...overly optimistic.

Pence's comments hinting at "herd immunity" only apply if
a) we get a working vaccine, see above, or
b) a large portion of the US gets immunity, most likely, by getting sick and recovering.

It's likely that the number of cases, 856,209 so far, is quite a lot under the correct amount due to underreporting. But Cuomo recently said that as many as 21 percent of NYC residents have antibodies that make them immune. That's good news for most of NYC. Less good news for the 15,074 who died, of course.

I am willing to extend Pence the credit that I don't believe he's suggesting Americans intentionally get sick, just to get immune. That would kill millions. Pence might be Lawful Evil, but at least he's not Neutral Evil. Instead, I will assume Pence is carefully choosing words like "a lot" to mean "a large number" but let people infer "a large proportion" and engage in loopholing. Oh, wait, Indiana. Cornholing. Pence is cornholing the nation, and will likely get on other interviews and cornhole the nation again and again, letting his message penetrate deep into America (especially the Deep South) and not stopping until America is really sure.

"Oh, I must have missed when he said that during the press briefing, where he was telling the nation this important message."

That's because he told Rush Limbaugh in an interview. Can you imagine Pence trying that "herd immunity" crap in a room full of reporters who wanted the truth? Can you imagine if he was caught cornholing in public? What would he tell his wife?

[Poopymonster]

Can you imagine Pence trying that "herd immunity" crap in a room full of reporters who wanted the truth? Can you imagine if he was caught cornholing in public? What would he tell his wife?

I'll wage $130,000. What is "The most awkward game of Mother May I"?

[caervek]

They started bombing the next day and said they had no intentions in keeping their word. They wanted US troops out, then once announced, started bombing the government we put in place.

In fairness they never broke their word, the agreement between the US and the Taliban only concerned US and Taliban forces, there was never any agreement for the Taliban to cease engaging other Afghan factions (aside from the ceasefire arranged so the talks could happen but that ended with the signing of the deal).

[Breccia]

So the $484 billion relief bill, now agreed to by both businesses and people, I mean Republicans and Democrats, is rushing through the House and Senate even as we speak. Surely this is good news to the people who --

Chamber of Congress president Suzanne Clark told Axios on Thursday that Congress' replenishment of the Paycheck Protection Program loan fund will not be enough to sustain small businesses through the coronavirus pandemic.

Wait, what?

Clark argued Congress will have to allocate "at least another $250 billion" in order to hold small businesses over. "They can't start working on the next round fast enough."

Clark said that gradual re-openings are inevitable, stating: "We're free enterprise people, so we don't think this is going to be government aid and assistance forever."
"We have to help people who are in real pain right now, and then we have to sensibly and safely reopen so that Americans have access to their paychecks again," she added.

Uh...uh oh.

While Trump hasn't touched this yet, this is bad news for McConnell. Seems he already shut down the idea of Phase Four because there wasn't enough money. Now small businesses and Democrats can point to McConnell and say "McConnell and the GOP are letting down small businesses" and point to this as evidence.

But let's not forget, Pelosi is no idiot. If McConnell changes his mind and says "Okay, I guess we can fund $250 billion more" then all of a sudden Pelosi's thoughts about funding state/local governments will become an iron-clad mandate.

Pelosi has no intention of giving the Republicans more things they want, without getting things Democrats want. We saw it in this current bill, if there's another we'll see it there, too. If there isn't another, the Democrats get to use this as leverage.

Never say you're full until you see the dessert trolley.

[Edge-]

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...wyu-story.html

Interesting point: McConnell threatening to allow states to go bankrupt is...kinda stupid and hypocritical.

New York, for example, send $30B+ more to Washington than it receives back in federal support. It's a donor state.

Kentucky, McConnell's state, does not. Quite the contrary, nearly 40% of the state budget relies on the federal government making it the fourth on the list of the states most reliant on the federal government to fund their state. By other measures, it's the second most reliant on federal dollars.

Maybe McConnell should let Kentucky go bankrupt since they're apparently nothing but a bunch of freeloaders.

[Breccia]

That very much is America. Google Orlando Bosch.

And he directly negotiated with the President...when, exactly? Google didn't show me that.

[Edge-]

And he directly negotiated with the President...when, exactly? Google didn't show me that.

Doesn't look like he got an invite to Camp David either from what I can tell.

[Breccia]

Doesn't look like he got an invite to Camp David either from what I can tell.

Indeed.

The US has worked with horrible people and done bad things. I'm not going to deny that. But there's a difference between doing it in public, and in private. Trump working with North Korea or the Taliban directly adds to their credibility. That's why they leapt at the chance.

[Nellise]

Meanwhile, Mike Pence -- remember, he's in charge -- pushed the goalposts further, saying the coronavirus could be basically over by June. Not Easter. And not even May.

Now it's true that immunity, such as a vaccine, will help stomp flat a second wave. I think having a widespread vaccine by fall would be...overly optimistic.

Pence's comments hinting at "herd immunity" only apply if
a) we get a working vaccine, see above, or
b) a large portion of the US gets immunity, most likely, by getting sick and recovering.

It's likely that the number of cases, 856,209 so far, is quite a lot under the correct amount due to underreporting. But Cuomo recently said that as many as 21 percent of NYC residents have antibodies that make them immune. That's good news for most of NYC. Less good news for the 15,074 who died, of course.

I am willing to extend Pence the credit that I don't believe he's suggesting Americans intentionally get sick, just to get immune. That would kill millions. Pence might be Lawful Evil, but at least he's not Neutral Evil. Instead, I will assume Pence is carefully choosing words like "a lot" to mean "a large number" but let people infer "a large proportion" and engage in loopholing. Oh, wait, Indiana. Cornholing. Pence is cornholing the nation, and will likely get on other interviews and cornhole the nation again and again, letting his message penetrate deep into America (especially the Deep South) and not stopping until America is really sure.

"Oh, I must have missed when he said that during the press briefing, where he was telling the nation this important message."

That's because he told Rush Limbaugh in an interview. Can you imagine Pence trying that "herd immunity" crap in a room full of reporters who wanted the truth? Can you imagine if he was caught cornholing in public? What would he tell his wife?

I don't know what the point of this post is. Pence said something completely reasonable and you go off on some weird rant. Save it for stuff that's actually bad.

[Odinfrost]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/republ...ing-democrats/

So the mask thing isn't just Jordan. Apparently House Republicans are making a point to not wear masks while their Democratic counterparts are following the advice and guidance of medical professionals.

This is a really weird way to virtue signal.

Oh god! This is it! This is what we have been waiting for. Just having one of these guys getting infected, then spread to the rest of their fellow Republicans and perhaps people may actually start to believe in Medical Experts again!

... That or they believe that the Democrats have somehow infected them because the Dems didn't get sick... That could also happen...

[unfilteredJW]

Like virtually everyone in every country you are making rationalizations about how it is OK for your country or faction to associate with terrorists and/or those who commit atrocities for weirdly specific reasons.

What you seem to be saying is that Trump is worse than other presidents because he spoke to terrorists publicly rather than sneakily in private through some back channel. That is a transparently weak argument scarcely worth pulling apart.

Trump is a loathsome human being but his candor is one of a few positive qualities I would bring up-if forced to do so at gunpoint.

Not sure how you can use the word 'candor' and the name of a pathological liar/conman in the same sentence.

[Omega10]

In fairness they never broke their word, the agreement between the US and the Taliban only concerned US and Taliban forces, there was never any agreement for the Taliban to cease engaging other Afghan factions (aside from the ceasefire arranged so the talks could happen but that ended with the signing of the deal).

So basically they only attacked people they were specifically allowed to attack based on the treaty that was signed? So, at least so far, the Taliban has kept up to their part of the bargain?

[Breccia]

Like virtually everyone in every country you are making rationalizations about how it is OK for your country or faction to

*LOUD ANNOYING BUZZER*

I never said that and you're going off-topic. Please post constructively. The thread is about Trump, not Cubans from generations ago.

By the way, that doctor Trump fired? Well, demoted? He is lodging a formal complaint. I'm curious to see how Team Trump will try to handwave it, now that all the studies are coming back siding with the doctor.

- - - Updated - - -

In case there was any doubt about what an administration is like when it's run by someone with dementia and an ironically-named smart phone, aides tell NBC News that the immigration ban announced by tweet caught them all off-guard.

Since the early days of the coronavirus pandemic, White House officials had discussed the possibility of temporarily halting immigration into the U.S. — but until a late night tweet by their boss, the plans were mostly theoretical.

That all changed around 10 p.m. ET on Monday when Trump declared on Twitter that new arrivals would be halted. “I will be signing an Executive Order to temporarily suspend immigration into the United States!” he wrote, setting off widespread confusion inside and outside of the administration, and a scramble by aides to finalize the mandate in under 48 hours.

Moments after the president sent out his tweet, aides told NBC News they had been aware that an immigration order had been under consideration, but they seemed caught off guard by the timing and were not able to offer any details, or even what the intended purpose was.

The next morning, officials tried to tamp down the confusion, but still had few details to offer. One senior administration official said that an executive order was still being considered — suggesting the move wasn’t a done deal — and that it would only apply to certain immigration categories. But the official was unable to say who would be exempt or if any countries would be excluded.

Another administration official tried to caution that farmworkers would likely be exempt, and downplayed the impact the action would have on U.S. policy.

Meanwhile, confused and concerned businesses began calling the White House to find out what the ban would mean for their workforces, said one White House aide — particularly farmers, who were already struggling to get the migrant labor they needed amid the outbreak. Democrats quickly assailed Trump's decision as racist, with House Democratic Caucus Chairman Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., tweeting that the president was the "Xenophobe. In. Chief."

White House officials said drafts of an executive order, which were being driven by White House adviser Stephen Miller, had been circulating before the president's tweet.

But officials weren’t sure which version the president was planning to sign, and none had been fully vetted by lawyers at the White House general counsel’s office and Justice Department to determine if they would be able to withstand a likely court challenge by pro-immigration groups. One draft executive order reported by Bloomberg News said the halt on immigration would be for 90 days, not the 60-day pause Trump later said he would be ordering.

And that's just the halfway point of the article. I just stopped because I've posted enough walls of text today to make the Library of Stupid.

When Trump was newly in office, there were some people who said "oh, he'll grow into the role".

Nope. At three years and three months, that excuse is not allowed. This is just chaos pretending to be energy. This the proverbial chicken with its head cut off.

As a reminder, the chicken still dies.

[Reyuna]

While Trump works to help small businesses I understand the vile Demonrats refuse to pass emergency legislation to release funds? (I am not American, so I don't fully understand your system). But I do know that it is in the interest of the vile Left to make sure the economy crashes so they can use it as a platform to win in November. They will literally see millions of your citizens go to the wall financially if it helps them gain power again. Thankfully here in the UK we have a strong Conservative Government that are not bound by the opposition party anymore and can do what is needed to pull us through this pandemic.

Off topic, is Joe Biden REALLY the best you guys can do? Seriously?

Christ.

(waiting on infraction, it's what MMO does best).


Infracted.

[TigTone]

While Trump works to help small businesses I understand the vile Demonrats refuse to pass emergency legislation to release funds? (I am not American, so I don't fully understand your system). But I do know that it is in the interest of the vile Left to make sure the economy crashes so they can use it as a platform to win in November. They will literally see millions of your citizens go to the wall financially if it helps them gain power again. Thankfully here in the UK we have a strong Conservative Government that are not bound by the opposition party anymore and can do what is needed to pull us through this pandemic.

Off topic, is Joe Biden REALLY the best you guys can do? Seriously?

Christ.

(waiting on infraction, it's what MMO does best).

Thanks for the laugh much needed in times like these.

[Xyonai]

Well with Hydrophroxo-... Hydrofillo-... The Lupus Drug out as Trump's Go-To miracle cure, the man himself is now promoting... Figuring out how to inject people with Disinfectant or Irradiating them internally with UV light to kill the Virus.

I'm being serious.

[Edge-]

Well with Hydrophroxo-... Hydrofillo-... The Lupus Drug out as Trump's Go-To miracle cure, the man himself is now promoting... Figuring out how to inject people with Disinfectant or Irradiating them internally with UV light to kill the Virus.

I'm being serious.

Was about to share this.

The UV light one isn't as dumb, but from what I've been reading about the studies on it it's UVC light that's the most potentially effective and that's blocked out by the atmosphere. You need artificial sources for that, and UVC light isn't very good for humans.

On the "injecting people with disinfectant"...I don't even know what to think on this. This is, "I'll just drink bleach and that will kill the virus." levels of stupid.

[Breccia]

So yesterday Fauci said this:

We need to significantly ramp up not only the number of tests, but the capacity to perform them, so that you don’t have a situation where you have a test but it can’t be done because there isn’t a swab, or because there isn’t extraction media, or not the right vial.

I am not overly confident right now at all that we have what it takes to do that. We are doing better, and I think we are going to get there, but we are not there yet,

Naturally, today, Trump said this:

No, I don’t agree with him on that. I think we are doing a grab job on testing.

If he said that, I don’t agree with him.

We’re doing very well on testing. We’ve tested far more than anyone else in the world and within a short period of time you’ll be hearing about new tests that are coming out that are going to be incredible

"Wow. He said that in front of Fauci?"

Oh, no. Fauci wasn't at the press briefing. Otherwise, the press would have asked him directly.

Incidentally "we have new tests coming" is (a) conjecture (see also: Google website) and (b) does not contradict what Fauci said about needing more/better tests.

As a reminder, Trump is the one arbitrarily setting guidelines. His experts have been trying to explain what's necessary to do that. Trump, who has repeatedly said he knows more than the doctors, disagrees using nothing but his word that other countries have been calling and saying Trump is the best -- no really, he said that too -- and that the best is yet to come, you'll see, this time I mean it.

It's not just Trump having a bad time with his on-the-record words not being taken well. McConnell has drawn some flak about the whole bankruptcy thing, possibly (I think @Edge- said this) based on Kentucky being ridiculously dependent on federal money and as I know I posted the second-most in-debt state just barely behind NYState.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is facing blowback from across the political spectrum after he suggested states should be able to declare bankruptcy as they face severe budget holes sparked by the coronavirus outbreak.

The debate over providing more federal funding for state and local governments is emerging as an early lightning rod in the next coronavirus bill, with Democrats and some Republicans asking for hundreds of billions in additional assistance.

But McConnell sparked his own political firestorm when, in response to a question from radio host Hugh Hewitt, he said he supported letting states declare bankruptcy and positioned Republicans as cautious of providing them with additional federal relief.


"I would certainly be in favor of allowing states to use the bankruptcy route. It saves some cities. And there’s no good reason for it not to be available. My guess is their first choice would be for the federal government to borrow money from future generations to send it down to them now so they don’t have to do that. That’s not something I’m going to be in favor of," McConnell said.

The remarks were met with quick and fierce backlash by lawmakers and local officials from states hit hard by the spread of the coronavirus, including members of McConnell’s own party.

Maryland GOP Gov. Larry Hogan predicted on Thursday that McConnell would ultimately regret his comments — if he didn’t already.

"Mitch McConnell, I think, probably regrets saying that," Hogan said during a Politico Playbook event. "If he doesn't regret it yet, I think he will regret it."

“The last thing we need in the middle of an economic crisis is to have states filing bankruptcy all across America and not able to provide services to people who desperately need them,” he added. “I'm hopeful that we're going to be able to … convince Sen. McConnell that maybe he shouldn't let all the states go bankrupt."

Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.), who is retiring, called McConnell the “Marie Antoinette of the Senate.”

“McConnell’s dismissive remark that States devastated by Coronavirus should go bankrupt rather than get the federal assistance they need and deserve is shameful and indefensible,” added King, whose home state has been hard hit by the coronavirus.

That's diplomatic, at least, which is kind of odd coming from the Party of Fuck Your Feelings. By contrast, there's Cuomo:

This is one of the really dumb ideas of all time

As a reminder, states were left out of Chapter 9. By this exclusion, they can't go bankrupt, barring a SCOTUS interpretation of course but one would have to try to force that issue. A few thought about it before, but none actually have. McConnell would, therefore, have to make some kind of bill or law and everyone would get to vote on it. If he does, we'll see who agrees. If he doesn't, I'll concede Hogan was right.

[Edge-]

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/23/mit...gressman-says/

McConnell was given a new nickname from a House Republican colleague responding to his, "Let the states go bankrupt" comment (which apparently they can't).

"To say that it is 'free money' to provide funds for cops, firefighters and healthcare workers makes McConnell the Marie Antoinette of the Senate," King tweeted.

Ooph.