Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Thekri]

Reason won't prevail because the American right-wing have decided that killing hundreds of thousands of Americans is an acceptable price in their desperation to save Trumps failed presidency and reelection bid.

I don't completely agree with this, but I understand the sentiment. I feel like comments like this mostly reflect Trump's ability to divide the country so completely that it is literally impossible to actually lead the entire country through a crisis.

Because here is my (Probably unpopular with both sides) position on reopening. It is an impossibly difficult position that has massive repercussions no matter where you fall on the scale, and I am not really sure there is a position on the scale that is objectively wrong, but positions toward either extreme are definitely more wrong. I don't actually disagree with Trump's push to reopen the country per se. I very much disagree with how he is (not) managing it, and even more importantly how he is messaging it.

One of the things Trump has said that he has gotten a lot of flak for is "We can't let the cure be worse then the disease", and I actually agree with that. While it is easy to frame the economy in terms of Rich people making money on the stock market, the economy is a lot more then that, and while Rich people lose a lot of money from a closed economy, they won't end up destitute. Barbers and Waiters will. There is a certain point where continued shutdowns will cause a rise in homelessness, poverty, drug use, and societal collapse that will have a larger death toll then the virus will. I am not sure where that point is, and frankly neither is anyone else. I do know that financial safety nets for a huge number of Americans are non-existent, and we are asking people with no savings to exist with no income for 2 months already. Many of these people are going to be in a nightmarish situation to put their lives back together.

So wherever on this scale a particular governor falls, there are people going to be unhappy with the decision. There are people like me, who are financially secure, who are mostly going to be worried about people getting infected, but there are also people who are desperate and have no income, who are willing to take increasingly extreme risks to simply sustain themselves with food and shelter. It easy for me to sit in my point of view, and lash out against the other perspective as the "Wrong" decision, but the truth is either extreme will cost lives. Right now we are at a devastating tipping point, where critical life sustaining systems are starting to break, most importantly the food production and distribution systems. While Americans are unlikely to starve, food shortages here will quickly throttle the flow of food to the rest of the world. Global famine conditions can kill more people in a week then Corona virus could kill in a year, deaths tolls in the hundreds of millions are possible if the food system breaks down hard.

So what we need isn't lashing out to defend our particular positions on reopening. What we need is a leader that can clearly articulate their decisions, and drive some sense of agreement on the path we are going to take that. Many governors are excelling at this. Cuomo is the most visible example, but even my governor, Henry McMaster is doing an effective job at it, even though his policies are very different. Trump is completely failing at it, so states that don't have effective governors, like Georgia and Texas, are just boiling in confusion and chaos.

[Breccia]

The tortoise is in danger of being flipped.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is facing growing calls within his own conference to increase financial assistance to state and local governments, something the GOP leader shut down during recent coronavirus relief talks with Democrats.

Support for more state aid is coming from Republican Sens. Mitt Romney (Utah), Susan Collins (Maine), Bill Cassidy (La.), John Kennedy (La.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), Dan Sullivan (Alaska) and Shelley Moore Capito (W.Va.).

The boldest push has come from Cassidy, who teamed up with Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) to propose a $500 billion fund that would “make sure state and local governments can maintain essential services.”

Bolding for emphasis. As we all remember, LA took a bit of a beating when the outbreak overlapped Mardi Gras. Both GOP Senators from Deep Red LA are pointing this out.

But Romney had something else to say. Well, write.

Romney walked into a Republican lunch on Tuesday with an oversized chart headlined: “Blue states aren’t the only ones who are getting screwed.”

The graphic illustrated how states with Republican governors, places like Missouri and Florida, are grappling with severe revenue shortfalls.

Emerging from a GOP lunch meeting Wednesday, Romney told reporters, “We’re discussing state circumstances.”

“Different states are in different positions, and we’re looking at those realities,” he added.

Romney's chart might as well have read "I don't want to lose the election".

Pelosi should start counting. That's seven. Two more, and the Democrats have 60 and McConnell can't stop them, leaving him with three options:
1) Flip those Senators back...somehow. The smart move would be telling both GOP Senators from Alaska that he'd get more money for oil drilling. If nothing else, that would buy him some time.
2) Object, obstruct, and delay, worsening the GOP's standing until more Senators turn on him, ramming through state funding anyhow and emasculating McConnell.
3) The most likely option, McConnell reads which way the wind's blowing, and agrees "graciously" to add state aid in the next bill which has more money for big business, oil, and the military like he wants. This ensures that state aid lands on Trump's desk with a veto-proof majority.

- - - Updated - - -


Travelers leaving New York City for various locations around the U.S. were responsible for much of the spread of a second wave of the coronavirus in the country, according to findings from scientists.

The New York Times reported Thursday that researchers tracking the genetic makeup of the virus now believe that many scattered outbreaks in localities around the U.S. had their roots in New York, where city residents fled lockdown orders and likely spread the disease.

“It means that we missed the boat early on, and the vast majority in this country is coming from domestic spread,” Kristian Andersen, a microbiology and immunology professor at Scripps Research, told the Times. “I keep hearing that it’s somebody else’s fault. That’s not true. It’s not somebody else’s fault, it’s our own fault.”

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” added the Yale School of Public Health's Nathan Grubaugh.

Grubaugh went on to estimate that between 60 and 65 percent of U.S. coronavirus cases as of May could be traced back to New York, suggesting that earlier action taken in the nation's largest city could have prevented the virus from spreading.

New York state ordered lockdown procedures in late March, but state officials in particular were criticized over the slow pace of actions taken to shutter bars and other public places seen as hotspots for the virus. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) originally resisted closing New York city schools during the crisis, though he later reversed course.

Cellphone data analyzed by the Times points to localities around the U.S. experiencing outbreaks after an influx of travelers from New York state. Much of the travel began two weeks before city officials implemented a stay-at-home order, the newspaper noted.

The WH was reached for comment, but it was the same propaganda as always: Trump acted immediately even though nobody else did, Fake News, nasty woman, bla bla bla.

So, it seems people were told to stay home, they didn't, and upped the death count directly. Much like the "very fine people" with weapons of war and pipe bombs Trump is defending in public.

- - - Updated - - -

And so, it has come to this.

[ur=https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/496540-axl-rose-steven-mnuchin-exchange-insults-in-covid-twitter-feud]Team Trump and Axl Rose got into a fight on twitter[/url].

ROUND 1

It’s official! Whatever anyone may have previously thought of Steve Mnuchin he’s officially an asshole.

-- Axl Rose

ROUND 2

What have you done for the country lately?

-- Mnuchin

Now honestly, at this point, the fight is over. Mnuchin has decided to enter K-3 level playground insult territory.

But.

ROUND 2A

Mnuchin also tweeted the flag of Liberia. Not the US. Liberia.

ROUND 3

My bad I didn’t get we’re hoping 2 emulate Liberia’s economic model but on the real unlike this admin I’m not responsible for 70k+ deaths n’ unlike u I don’t hold a fed gov position of responsibility 2 the American people n’ go on TV tellin them 2 travel the US during a pandemic.

-- Axl Rose

And there's the death blow. Axl isn't a government official. Helping the country is literally not his job. It's literally Mnuchin's job. Oh, and the death count.

This is what it has come to, rabid fanbase. The "only the best people" Trump picked are now acting like children, in public, on purpose. And the flag thing is just hilarious.

You picked President Twitter, and now, you don't even have that anymore. You have a group of tired old men who are watching everything they touch die. Sad.

[Dontrike]

#BeBest everyone!

The president being constantly embroiled in a pissy argument with some random person is incredibly pathetic.

[Breccia]

Axios reports that Team Trump are trying to force the CDC to change its "safe to re-open test" guidelines.

Specifically, the task force -- which is Schroedinger's disbanding -- wants the CDC to lower their standards so that it's easier to reopen. The claims is something like "rural TN and NYC aren't the same and shouldn't have the same guidelines" which on paper sounds valid, but I strongly suspect that it'll be an excuse to use the rules for rural TN on places like Miami and Atlanta, leading to a second wave.

[D Luniz]

The tortoise is in danger of being flipped.



Bolding for emphasis. As we all remember, LA took a bit of a beating when the outbreak overlapped Mardi Gras. Both GOP Senators from Deep Red LA are pointing this out.

But Romney had something else to say. Well, write.



Romney's chart might as well have read "I don't want to lose the election".

Pelosi should start counting. That's seven. Two more, and the Democrats have 60 and McConnell can't stop them, leaving him with three options:
1) Flip those Senators back...somehow. The smart move would be telling both GOP Senators from Alaska that he'd get more money for oil drilling. If nothing else, that would buy him some time.
2) Object, obstruct, and delay, worsening the GOP's standing until more Senators turn on him, ramming through state funding anyhow and emasculating McConnell.
3) The most likely option, McConnell reads which way the wind's blowing, and agrees "graciously" to add state aid in the next bill which has more money for big business, oil, and the military like he wants. This ensures that state aid lands on Trump's desk with a veto-proof majority.
*snip*

Not sure that would work, oil drillers are dropping like flies, the market will remain gutted for the foreseeable future.

[Bodonius]

Still trump will win so so big vs Biden, if biden dies who will take his place? That on might atleast some

[Breccia]

Not sure that would work, oil drillers are dropping like flies, the market will remain gutted for the foreseeable future.

I meant money to keep the oil drillers from dropping like flies. The Fed is trying to help, but I'm guessing they want more for their MBS/Putin spat woes, and McConnell can't give them any without passing another bill.

- - - Updated - - -

In other news, Biden leads in PA (no big surprise there), MI, NC, FL WI and nationally in recent polls.

[Edge-]

#BeBest everyone!

That's not even a press release, that's a news letter. And it doesn't follow AP style.

Did Kelleyanne greenlight his boss shit-talking her husband? Seems like a really odd relationship, maybe George is a sub and is into all this shit?

[Thekri]

Not sure that would work, oil drillers are dropping like flies, the market will remain gutted for the foreseeable future.

In an almost perfect irony, Space Force's first major mission to actual space is a near existential threat to oil companies.

Basically, Space Force is administrating a mission by the Air Force's X-37B (Don't ask me why they didn't give Space Force any vehicles that can actually go to Space) that is going to be testing microwave energy transmission from orbit to earth. Basically the idea is that you use orbital solar panels, that do not degrade, do not struggle with clouds, can be position not to experience night, and generate 4-10x more energy then terrestrial panels. Then you use all that energy to make a concentrated microwave beam, which you aim at the receiving antenna of a power station on earth. Microwaves don't lose much energy traveling through the atmosphere, so most of then energy arrives at the power station, which can turn it back into electricity (Probably with Steam Turbines).

If this works out like the theory suggests, this is pretty close to the ideal renewable energy. Cheap, Clean, long lasting, efficient, and almost infinitely scalable. The military wants it so it can provide energy to anywhere on the globe without building power stations (Which could enable a switch to electric vehicles), but it could work for anyone.

It will be absolutely hilarious if Space Force puts the nail in the coffin of Coal and Oil.

[Edge-]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9504276.html

Trump's Navy valet has tested positive. Hope he's alright, and I also hope this sends Trump into total germaphobe panic mode and he's too distracted to twitter rage more.

[jonnysensible]

In an almost perfect irony, Space Force's first major mission to actual space is a near existential threat to oil companies.

Basically, Space Force is administrating a mission by the Air Force's X-37B (Don't ask me why they didn't give Space Force any vehicles that can actually go to Space) that is going to be testing microwave energy transmission from orbit to earth. Basically the idea is that you use orbital solar panels, that do not degrade, do not struggle with clouds, can be position not to experience night, and generate 4-10x more energy then terrestrial panels. Then you use all that energy to make a concentrated microwave beam, which you aim at the receiving antenna of a power station on earth. Microwaves don't lose much energy traveling through the atmosphere, so most of then energy arrives at the power station, which can turn it back into electricity (Probably with Steam Turbines).

If this works out like the theory suggests, this is pretty close to the ideal renewable energy. Cheap, Clean, long lasting, efficient, and almost infinitely scalable. The military wants it so it can provide energy to anywhere on the globe without building power stations (Which could enable a switch to electric vehicles), but it could work for anyone.

It will be absolutely hilarious if Space Force puts the nail in the coffin of Coal and Oil.

damn i thought space force was just a bunch of nerds who sit in a cooled shipping container all day tracking satilites and wargaming the effects of knocking out GPS systems to own terrestrial battle space.

This is actually kinda sweet

(still nerds tho)

[Thekri]

damn i thought space force was just a bunch of nerds who sit in a cooled shipping container all day tracking satilites and wargaming the effects of knocking out GPS systems to own terrestrial battle space.

This is actually kinda sweet

(still nerds tho)

Well here is the thing about Space Force. For all the ridiculous politics around forming that organization, it is still made of incredibly talented and professional people that do legitimately great work. It isn't their fault that Trump got so fixated on their job titles for a while.

[Breccia]

Trump's Navy valet has tested positive.

US Senators Criticize Pentagon's COVID-19 Response

Navy halts daily COVID-19 updates for stricken ships Theodore Roosevelt and Kidd (yes, ships plural, it was 22 ships on April 22)

The USS Ronald Reagan is about to test a new Navy approach, all sailors sequestered for 21 days before launch. Considering there were 16 cases on board when it returned to dock, this is a good test to run.

Navy secretary nominee: Service in 'rough waters' after 'failure of leadership'

The Navy is not having a great time right now.

[jonnysensible]

Well here is the thing about Space Force. For all the ridiculous politics around forming that organization, it is still made of incredibly talented and professional people that do legitimately great work. It isn't their fault that Trump got so fixated on their job titles for a while.

i thought it barely had any staff currently, ill go do some extreme googling while im bored.

what sites do you jarheads go on for military news?

[Thekri]

i thought it barely had any staff currently, ill go do some extreme googling while im bored.

what sites do you jarheads go on for military news?

Space Force is just the Air Forces' Space Command with all the stationary changed. As such, the part where people actually do work is pretty well staffed and functional. The part that is still an absolute train wreck is the Pentagon level command structure, since they have to have a Branch level command structure. Basically they just added like 4 layers of senior leadership on top of the organization, and none of those levels have a real purpose or resources.

I wouldn't know where Jarheads go for news. As best I can tell from being around Marines, the answer seems to be the walls of portable toilets, where it is usually in pictograph form.

[Breccia]

Oh, ouch.

HHS Azar blames meat packers for getting sick.

No, really.

Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar reportedly suggested that the social habits and living conditions of workers at meatpacking plants were the reason for recent outbreaks at processing facilities.

Azar made the remarks on an April 28 call with lawmakers, when he referenced the "home and social" conditions of the workers, Politico reported Thursday, citing three people on the call.

"He was essentially turning it around, blaming the victim and implying that their lifestyle was the problem," Rep. Ann Kuster (D-N.H.), who was on the call, told the publication. "Their theory of the case is that they are not becoming infected in the meat processing plant, they're becoming infected because of the way they live in their home."

By the way, even if Azar was right -- that, somehow, the meat workers turned up with such a high proportional infection rate coincidentally -- they'd still spread it at work, making either the closure, or better yet federally-mandated federally-inspected safety upgrades, would still be necessary.

But also, this means that Trump is pointing to a group of people he claims can't follow simple social distancing and other safety rules, and saying "you people in particular need to get back into your tightly-packed worksites, that's an order, you're drafted". Which isn't stupid, it's homocidal.

[Edge-]

Oh, ouch.

HHS Azar blames meat packers for getting sick.

No, really.



By the way, even if Azar was right -- that, somehow, the meat workers turned up with such a high proportional infection rate coincidentally -- they'd still spread it at work, making either the closure, or better yet federally-mandated federally-inspected safety upgrades, would still be necessary.

But also, this means that Trump is pointing to a group of people he claims can't follow simple social distancing and other safety rules, and saying "you people in particular need to get back into your tightly-packed worksites, that's an order, you're drafted". Which isn't stupid, it's homocidal.

How many, "Let them eat cake" moments are we going to get out of this administration? I mean, do they think folks working in meat packing are rolling in money or something? Good lord, the industries reliance on underpaid, undocumented workers is well documented, as are their atrocious safety habits.

https://work.chron.com/average-pay-m...rker-6437.html

$24K a year. That's the average pay to work at a slaughterhouse. Average. It stretches further if you're outside of more expensive urban areas for sure, but that's not a lot of money to live on. Especially if you have a family to support.

[Benggaul]

They...they've nicknamed Trump's campaign "Death Star". Do they have ANY idea what that implies? Good fucking grief Trump hires the WORST people...

Do they seriously not know that the Death Star was the tool of the baddies that was ultimately a source of hubris that destroyed them all?
And do they REALLY want something named "Death" attached to their campaign amidst a pandemic that's going to kill at least 100k Americans?

[Breccia]

I also hope this sends Trump into total germaphobe panic mode and he's too distracted to twitter rage more.

Trump insists that wearing a mask would send the wrong message.

You know what else would send the wrong message?

Dying.

Besides everything else that would do, imagine when Trump "go out there and huff bleach and return to work, what do you have to lose?" gets sick or dies while not obeying his own CDC's and his own task force's guidelines.

"It's safe (cough) to go (cough) back...to...work...." <bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep>

That would destroy his message in its entirely. It would reverse it. The healthiest person to ever run for President, felled by the flu? What would the rabid fanbase do? Because I think their illusion would be shattered so hard, that unemployment would spike even higher.

The GOP should fear this more than any other American, of course. Besides proving they can't handle literally anything, Pence has the charisma of a potted plant and couldn't beat, well, anyone even under normal times. Running after Trump gets sick and dies? How many times will Biden say "Didn't Trump put you in charge of the task force?" in each debate? Forty-six? Maybe two more, just to prove Pence is a Tool.

There is no good result for the USA if Trump gets sick and dies. But for the Party of Trump, it would turn the slow death spiral into a hydrolic-assisted flush.

[Thekri]

Trump insists that wearing a mask would send the wrong message.

You know what else would send the wrong message?

Dying.

Besides everything else that would do, imagine when Trump "go out there and huff bleach and return to work, what do you have to lose?" gets sick or dies while not obeying his own CDC's and his own task force's guidelines.

"It's safe (cough) to go (cough) back...to...work...." <bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep>

That would destroy his message in its entirely. It would reverse it. The healthiest person to ever run for President, felled by the flu? What would the rabid fanbase do? Because I think their illusion would be shattered so hard, that unemployment would spike even higher.

The GOP should fear this more than any other American, of course. Besides proving they can't handle literally anything, Pence has the charisma of a potted plant and couldn't beat, well, anyone even under normal times. Running after Trump gets sick and dies? How many times will Biden say "Didn't Trump put you in charge of the task force?" in each debate? Forty-six? Maybe two more, just to prove Pence is a Tool.

There is no good result for the USA if Trump gets sick and dies. But for the Party of Trump, it would turn the slow death spiral into a hydrolic-assisted flush.

After 4 years, you should know how the fanbase will react. He will have been murdered by Democrats/immigrants/Chyna, and will be forever a martyr. it doesn't matter what they have to invent to make that a reality. You keep hoping some event will force them to return to reality, but their reality is fundamentally different then yours, because they have a completely different information stream then you do.