Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Dontrike]

It's not worth questioning it. It's a one person bit of anecdotal evidence given by another person with no details. It's meaningless. Who knows whether the person just got better on their own since it took 3 days which can happen naturally given that the person wasn't sick enough to be hospitalized.

It is to me, after being laid off all I have now is poking at the holes of the logic of people like them.

[Acidbaron]

The price of having Trump as President:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/europe-ab...122742176.html

Title: Europe is abandoning Trump on the world stage as it turns away from the US toward China

The gist of it is that Europe is building stronger economic relations with China, despite the strong arm US efforts against it. Europeans view China almost as favorably as the US. Trump has really cratered our reputation with Europe, especially his hydro-whatever drug and his disinfectant talk. The UK is turning away from the US as a reliable ally as well.

Excerpts:

This shows the price of having Trump as President. If the US tries to divide up the world with a US sphere of influence (We own this planet - you just live here) and a Chinese one - we might find that the number of countries on our side might be a rather small number.

For better or worse, Europe at the end of the day seeks stability and growth. Ever since Trump became President it is not that the EU turned away from the US, they actually turned away from The White House and have moved talks to state level, representatives and diplomats created relations there. The EU has an effective and efficient diplomat group that lays the ground work for whatever the world ends up looking.

After all why should we Europeans end up paying for your trade war? Why should we take a hit when the person in the white house has repeatedly said he does not wish to be the leader of the "free world" any more? Who has proven himself to be an unreliable ally if not even an enemy on certain fronts.

Americans keep forgetting that actions they take on the global stage such in the ME causes reactions they might remain shielded from thanks to an ocean as physical barrier, we are not shielded and we ended up paying the price. While there's some sort of solidarity if the US every 4 or 8 years changes from tone and goes from "we love you!" to "we hate you!" as if they suffered from bipolarity we can't see the US as a long term committed partner as all world changing political and economical plans take more than one president term to come into full effect.

But this was said a couple of times when speaking of the US or the Brexit debacle, people think acting "bigly" is a shown of force and strength on the world stage. While it creates actually the complete opposite creation. I mean with the exception of the small far right group, Trump supporter is synonymous for idiot here.

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Exactly what "the base" wants, America Alone. They really are the biggest group of idiots around. The long term damage these assclowns are causing is pathetic.

It is the lie they tell people about globalism, if we close all the borders, if we reverse all politics and fully focus on simply our economy it will all return back to how it was back then in the times of growth.

Unaware that reversing globalism for their nation means less trade, less economy and less jobs. Not knowing that the economic growth of the US is due to its close economic relations with the EU and other regions.

Manufacturing jobs won't come back because some nations are simply cheaper and we need unity to correctly and set a global or "western" taxation standard so that tax evading multinationals are taken on. This speaks directly of one of the negatives of globalism is that even mentioned in the US? It is here.
So we need to tackle the negatives of globalism rather than creating empty speeches of how we are going to take everything back.

Agriculture jobs and immigration, two truths here often overlooked. People don't wish to work there because the work is hard and it doesn't pay much. The reason it does not pay much is despite the tons of subsidies from the government the farmers are bleeding because we have allowed big commercial market chains to nickle and dime them. It is fully in the government power to tackle this issue but nothing gets done.

Also Trump is a "globalist", he is simply selective in what he opposes as he looks at his bank account not his ideological opposition to it, as he has none. If he or his family could make bank on turning Texas into part of Mexico he would be promoting that.

But digging into all these topics is not easy and understanding them requires time. Time people don't have if not struggling to understand all this hence people likely to support trump are also likely to believe conspiracy theories. So it is far easier to get people riled up against an easy enemy such as immigrants, globalists or other words that makes them angry and afraid.

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Doctor prescribed it to my neighbor who contracted through corona virus. He quarantined in a hotel for two weeks and said he felt better after three days of taking it.

Zero proof that it works in treating it, your doctor is a moron.

[PrimiOne]

Zero proof that it works in treating it, your doctor is a moron.

Well,maybe not,maybe it happened many (but many many) weeks ago when the question was still in the air ( he didn't specified a timeframe). That question does no longer exist and the scientific consensus today is a big bold capital no.

And who is taking it today ?( or claiming he does...he is all about theatrics). Yeah ,that orange guy ,so the "defense" (at lack of a better tem) that doctors used it in the past expired a long time ago.

It's not worth questioning it. It's a one person bit of anecdotal evidence given by another person with no details. It's meaningless. Who knows whether the person just got better on their own since it took 3 days which can happen naturally given that the person wasn't sick enough to be hospitalized.

What?

Correlation does not imply causation?

Be careful there , that concept can makes us fall in the dangerous waters of logic and scientific methodology.

Warning!! ( you don't have to worry about it lockedout , you are safe)

On an unrelated note I'm selling a rock that keep tigers away. Cheap. Free shipping.

[some guy]

Doctor prescribed it to my neighbor who contracted through corona virus. He quarantined in a hotel for two weeks and said he felt better after three days of taking it.

I felt better after 3 days without taking it.

[Stormspark]

I felt better after 3 days without taking it.

Funny that that's how diseases work huh? Your immune system fights it and you feel better. The people that are taking a dangerous anti-malaria drug (that does NOTHING for this virus), that has a ton of really bad side effects, are freaking morons. The only disease the side effects of that drug aren't worse than, is malaria. If I get it I'm going to say that Big K soda is the cure because I drank some of that while I was sick and I got better.

[Belize]

Doctor prescribed it to my neighbor who contracted through corona virus. He quarantined in a hotel for two weeks and said he felt better after three days of taking it.

Counterpoint, 2 neighbors of mine died from taking HydroQ.

Your anecdote is now outweighted 2-1 by my anecdote.

[Resurgo]

....Michigan...

On top of all that, he's literally and blatantly tweeting impeachable threats...
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...298942464?s=21

Would love to see their reactions if a Democrat even thought of saying anything like this.

[Felya]

Doctor prescribed it to my neighbor who contracted through corona virus. He quarantined in a hotel for two weeks and said he felt better after three days of taking it.

Here are 368 patients who participated in study. 210 took it, 158 didn’t... of the 70 that died, 52 took Hydroxychloroquine:

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/cov...xychloroquine/

[Casterbridge]

I'm going to probably regret this, however concerning the Hydroxychloroquine debate there is still a lot in the air about this.

First, off I am not defending Trump on this, he's an idiot for the way he has been touting and taunting it and has made this issue much more complicated than it needs to be, and my guess is he knows it.

That being said, there are a lot of doctors/scientists out there that still believe it has value in the fight against COVID-19, especially when used early on.

I know the healthcare organization I work with are still looking at it for certain applications, though very cautiously.

In fact, there was an article recently from NPR talking about the frustrations certain trials where having because all of a sudden no one wanted to be part of the trials because of how politicized it had become, and people hearing it could kill you, which while true there are potentially extreme side effects, like most powerful drugs, it has also been used for years successfully and safely for other ailments.

Found it:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...hamper-science

In the end jury is out on this drug, trying to claim it's a cure-all etc is idiotic however our right dismissing it isn't prudent either, at least not yet.

Also I seriously doubt Trump is taking this drug, however if he is it's much more like he was prescribed it for arthritis than any other reason.

[Felya]

it has also been used for years successfully and safely for other ailments.

Yes, it has been FDA approved and used to treat Lupus. Not sure why you are using it as a positive:

'Medication I can't live without': Lupus patients struggle to get hydroxychloroquine, in demand for COVID-19
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ug/5129896002/

Morley, who takes other prescription drugs to control the disease, said hydroxychloroquine is the "one medication I can't live without."

He has had side effects such as nausea, vomiting, headaches and loss of appetite, but he has controlled those by adjusting his doses. The prospect of no longer getting the drug, he said, is "terrifying."

“I can end up in the hospital – the last place I need to be, especially someone who is immunocompromised," he said.

Large health providers such as Kaiser Permanente have changed how they prescribe the drug, citing a global shortage after it was identified as a possible treatment for COVID-19. Kaiser has limited refills for lupus patients up to 14 days and encouraged doctors to consider other drugs for patients, according to a Kaiser statement.

Just to make it clear... patient who are using the drug to treat a disease for decades, are being told to try something else. While this unproven drug, that has at least one study showing significant mortality rate increase for covid, is being pushed by the president... not medical professionals.

A president who claims to take the drug, but also doesn’t wear a mask in public.

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Also I seriously doubt Trump is taking this drug, however if he is it's much more like he was prescribed it for arthritis than any other reason.

Compare Trump stats released by his doctor, to NFL player, Chris Long. I’m not going to post the picture for the 100th time, but look at the stats his doctor reported and look at Trump, then look at Chris Long stats, then look at what they look like next to each other. A Trump doctor doesn’t care about these things called regulations or even explain to Trump why it’s unnecessary to ask about injecting disinfectant.

[Acidbaron]

I'm going to probably regret this, however concerning the Hydroxychloroquine debate there is still a lot in the air about this.

First, off I am not defending Trump on this, he's an idiot for the way he has been touting and taunting it and has made this issue much more complicated than it needs to be, and my guess is he knows it.

That being said, there are a lot of doctors/scientists out there that still believe it has value in the fight against COVID-19, especially when used early on.

I know the healthcare organization I work with are still looking at it for certain applications, though very cautiously.

In fact, there was an article recently from NPR talking about the frustrations certain trials where having because all of a sudden no one wanted to be part of the trials because of how politicized it had become, and people hearing it could kill you, which while true there are potentially extreme side effects, like most powerful drugs, it has also been used for years successfully and safely for other ailments.

Found it:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...hamper-science

In the end jury is out on this drug, trying to claim it's a cure-all etc is idiotic however our right dismissing it isn't prudent either, at least not yet.

Also I seriously doubt Trump is taking this drug, however if he is it's much more like he was prescribed it for arthritis than any other reason.

The jury is only out when it comes to using it as a preventive medicine, it may or may not have some impact on that but considering there are a series of other things you can do to prevent yourself from getting the virus, taking a powerful drug like that should be last on your things to do.

However it being promoted as a cure is wrong and there has been no proof for this even after trying it out on people.

Considering people ended up consuming bleach, the bar has to be set really really high when it comes to giving out advice or simply spreading information on what may or may not be helpful.

[TACOshake]

Honestly we need a DOJ Corruption megathread. What Barr is doing is unheard of in the history of the US.

Weeks after Kelly Loeffler came under fire for dumping millions in stock following private coronavirus briefings, her husband gave $1M to Trump's super PAC. That appears to be his biggest contribution ever.





Hello, I'd like to report a crime.

.... Hello?

[Casterbridge]

If you think I'm trying to put a positive spin on something then I apologize, my intent was that statement is to show that the drug can be taken safely and is successful in treating certain things, as you pointed out Lupus is indeed one of those things, though not the only one.

https://www.rheumatology.org/I-Am-A/...uine-Plaquenil

Perhaps I am being unclear?

I'm simply trying to point out that there are negative consequences on both ends because this drug is being politicized instead of allowing the research to happen.

Trump should not be touting it as some miracle cure-all, or at all for that matter, and causing shortages etc to the point that people who are already using the drug and need it to treat their ailments are having a harder time accessing the drug, you will get zero-argument from me on that.

That being said legitimate research being cancelled because the drug is being over politicized is not right either.

Trump is very successfully convincing some people hydroxychloroquine is a miracle drug and simultaneously convincing others its snake oil, neither viewpoints are helpful at this point.

[solinari6]

Perhaps I am being unclear?

I'm simply trying to point out that there are negative consequences on both ends because this drug is being politicized instead of allowing the research to happen.

But no one is stopping the research from happening. All we are doing is saying that we need to wait for the research to be done.

[kaid]

Honestly we need a DOJ Corruption megathread. What Barr is doing is unheard of in the history of the US.

Weeks after Kelly Loeffler came under fire for dumping millions in stock following private coronavirus briefings, her husband gave $1M to Trump's super PAC. That appears to be his biggest contribution ever.





Hello, I'd like to report a crime.

.... Hello?

Clearly burr should have thought of this or he would not have gotten investigated.

[fwc577]

Imagine actually believing this. I'm sure you were just being satire, but millions of Americans actually believe things such as this and it's scary af.

I'm trying to imagine but I couldn't help but bust at laughing hysterically while typing it.

[Jotaux]

I figured the all caps text was enough so I left off the tag.

I thought you were serious

[Deja Thoris]

The price of having Trump as President:

This shows the price of having Trump as President. If the US tries to divide up the world with a US sphere of influence (We own this planet - you just live here) and a Chinese one - we might find that the number of countries on our side might be a rather small number.

Heh, score for one Boris, I don't have a high opinion of him but sometimes he does things that endear me to him.

[Omega10]

For better or worse, Europe at the end of the day seeks stability and growth. Ever since Trump became President it is not that the EU turned away from the US, they actually turned away from The White House and have moved talks to state level, representatives and diplomats created relations there. The EU has an effective and efficient diplomat group that lays the ground work for whatever the world ends up looking.

After all why should we Europeans end up paying for your trade war? Why should we take a hit when the person in the white house has repeatedly said he does not wish to be the leader of the "free world" any more? Who has proven himself to be an unreliable ally if not even an enemy on certain fronts.

Americans keep forgetting that actions they take on the global stage such in the ME causes reactions they might remain shielded from thanks to an ocean as physical barrier, we are not shielded and we ended up paying the price. While there's some sort of solidarity if the US every 4 or 8 years changes from tone and goes from "we love you!" to "we hate you!" as if they suffered from bipolarity we can't see the US as a long term committed partner as all world changing political and economical plans take more than one president term to come into full effect.

But this was said a couple of times when speaking of the US or the Brexit debacle, people think acting "bigly" is a shown of force and strength on the world stage. While it creates actually the complete opposite creation. I mean with the exception of the small far right group, Trump supporter is synonymous for idiot here.

Thank you very much for your European take on this. The US media lies so much about what's happening outside the US that it is hard to know what is true and what is not. Much appreciated.

The two bolded parts I found most interesting. I won't say concerning or disappointing - if Europe felt differently I would question its self respect. It never seemed reasonable for a strong US-Europe alliance to stay strong with Americans expressing so much hatred toward Europe, and with the US often treating Europe like its pet poodle.

[Acidbaron]

Heh, score for one Boris, I don't have a high opinion of him but sometimes he does things that endear me to him.

It might be a side effect from him being hit by the corona virus, that suddenly made his policies and politics have a personal and negative impact on himself. So that might be enough for him to now reconsider his past stance. Can very well be something temporary however.