Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Felya]

Never said it protects you from getting it. Does it in fact help your immune system? Isn’t that the reason it’s prescribed for malaria and rheumatoid arthritis?

No, your immune system is what attacks your joints, causing arthritis. Stop getting your medical info from politicians...

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353648

An autoimmune disorder, rheumatoid arthritis occurs when your immune system mistakenly attacks your own body's tissues.

[Edge-]

Never said it protects you from getting it. Does it in fact help your immune system? Isn’t that the reason it’s prescribed for malaria and rheumatoid arthritis?

Why are you asking randoms on the forum? Why not ask your doctor? This seems like a waste of time to me, personally.

[Felya]

Why are you asking randoms on the forum? Why not ask your doctor? This seems like a waste of time to me, personally.

That’s the next step... First you listen to politicians, then Internet forums, then google... if you are still alive when that’s done, call a doctor.

[Omega10]

yep just like every leader ever elected represents 100% of the population. no middle area whatsoever. let's just ignore the fact that in the u.s. not 100% of the population votes or is capable of voting either because of age or having a felony.

I concede your point. The statement that you objected to was:

Reality is, the fact that he has a good chance of being reelected strongly suggests that Trump really does represent what the US is about.

What I would like to amend this to is:

Reality is, the fact that he has a good chance of being reelected strongly suggest that Trump really does represent a large part of what the US is about.

Thank you for bringing up my exaggeration. When dissing Trump, there really is no need to exaggerate. I apologize.

To elaborate a bit, Trump lies on a daily basis, and 40+% of the population is perfectly ok with that. Trump has talked about using disenfectants and hyro-whatever as anti-virus treatments, despite the fact that neither has been tested and approved by the FDA, and 40+% of the population is perfectly ok with that. Currently, there are protestors all over the country working hard to get the country to unite behind Trump and implement his virus strategies 100%. I think that the way it is phrased is accurate: "Trump really does represent a large part of what the US is about" - 40+% certainly counts as a large part of the US.

Trump is presenting the US to be a country that lies on a regular basis and likes to bully others. And he has the full support of over 40% of the country. Are you ok with my amended statement?

[Breccia]

McConnell is already backing off of "No to Everyone".

1) He says it's nearly done which is a strange thing to say when you've had nothing to do with any such bill, and

and

2) he said it would be under $1 trillion this time, which for those of you keeping score at home, is a trillion dollars more than his last estimate. Which was zero.

Now, a few things about this.

First, I continue to insist that McConnell can't pass a bill with money that he wants, without money the Democrats wants, and basically 50/50. I stand by this. McConnell's not going to get a trillion for oil, gas, whiskey, infrared bulbs and kale without having some for, say, hospitals and state governments.

Secondly, he's already dismissed the Senate, or to use Trump's language "vacation", without any help for the PPP funds.

Third, Trump has already insisted that we won't close for the second wave...he doesn't really have any say over that but whatever. If even Trump is admitting there will be a second wave, and if Trump is saying "it's just a second wave, it's all under control" etc then everyone, including McConnell, knows that more money will be needed. Especially as the South and Midwest now lead the charge in new cases, as @Benggaul says over and over, as the disease starts to enter the rural areas where people thought they were safe. Fauci is specifically and directly addressing this.

Fourth, $1 trillion probably isn't enough for McConnell now. Barely five months into the year, U.S. investment-grade companies already have issued more than $1 trillion in debt — nearly as much as in all of 2019, which was well above average. It's a matter of time before a chunk of that collapses under its own weight, and McConnell has to re-define "socialism" and "Obama-era bailout" so somehow not be what he wants to do.

Fifth, Team Trump is insisting there needs to be another bill, which rather tied McConnell's hands anyhow, so this isn't so much taking a stance as much as admitting they have no choice, and

Sixth, this isn't a message to Pelosi -- she already knew this was coming. She highballed at $3 trillion and even I was saying "no fucking way". But with McConnell saying $1 trillion, this is a message to Trump.

McConnell told Trump the bill needs to be tailored toward short-term economic relief and create incentives for people to get back to work.

He said he worries that additional unemployment payments will discourage people from working, and instead suggested supplementing some workers' paychecks.

In urging for a much smaller and immediate relief package, McConnell threw cold water on Trump's continued push to tie infrastructure spending to a stimulus bill.

"We're trying to steer away from an Obama stimulus package," one of the sources said.

There will be no funding for Infrastructure Week VI: We Need More National Socialism.

Perhaps "No to Everyone" was always a ruse, designed to give him a hard floor/foundation from which to bargain. Problem is, with enough pressure, even hard foundations crack. Such as in floods, earthquakes, and other disasters. He tried a hard shell, I mean hard sell, but unfortunately, he couldn't bring the deal home. Now he's going to give Trump another veto-proof bill with nothing Trump wants in it, while Pelosi walks away from an explosion.

[Dontrike]

I don’t think anyone finds out they have an illness the day they get it. Does that mean all other medicines don’t work either?

No, that's not it. Point is he could have caught the fact he had it towards the end of the viruses effects which might be why he felt better after three days as medication like that doesn't just make something disappear that quickly.

[Benggaul]

the South and Midwest now lead the charge in new cases, as @Benggaul says over and over

Sheesh, there are nicer ways of asking me to be less repetitive... :P

Speaking of which:

96,354 dead, 1,418 on the 21st (GMT). New cases spiked above 28k for the first time in two weeks, most coming from California and Illinois. New York, Texas and New Jersey round out the top 5. Texas had the second highest spike in new cases and the highest daily death total EVER for the entirety of the pandemic, so, opening back up was not the right call.

Fuck Florida.

Overall death totals have been lower this week than previous weeks, but if cases continue to increase by 20k+ daily it's likely we'll stay above a 1k daily death average for a while. We will undoubtedly hit 100k within the next few days, possibly by Tuesday. Unless something changes in the next few weeks we will be at 130k by the end of June, making the 134k by August prediction seem optimistic.

It's okay, though, because Trump is ordering the flags to be lowered to half mast. I'm sure this purely PR move will comfort the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost loved ones in this TRUMP SHITSHOW.

Stay safe, folks.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and the fucking asshole didn't wear a mask during his Ford visit, so again he's endangering Americans for his vanity.

[pathora44]

It's okay, though, because Trump is ordering the flags to be lowered to half mast. I'm sure this purely PR move will comfort the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost loved ones in this TRUMP SHITSHOW.

Just like with gun violence the GOP has given empty platitudes like our favorite "thoughts and prayers" while literally never doing jack shit about it. It is the GOP way and Trump is just following tradition.

[arandomuser]

im sick of this plausible denability
what NORMAL PERSON says henry ford had good bloodlines in a totally casual conversation definitely not a dog whistle to nazis which ford supported?
I like to think trump is stupid but thats such an obscure reference and terminology its 100% intentional.
but i guess it does speak alot to the "working class" that ford is idealizeod in american blue-collar labor culture despite him supporting a white ethno-state and eugenics, because "atleast he gave people jobs"

[lockedout]

No, your immune system is what attacks your joints, causing arthritis. Stop getting your medical info from politicians...

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353648

Why is it prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis then?

[draynay]

Why are you asking randoms on the forum? Why not ask your doctor? This seems like a waste of time to me, personally.

Its also a forbidden topic for him to ask for medical advice.

[Muzjhath]

Why is it prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis then?

Because doctors believe it makes the immune system worse at communicating with itself. Thus making it attack healthy tissue less.

[Elegiac]

Never said it protects you from getting it. Does it in fact help your immune system? Isn’t that the reason it’s prescribed for malaria and rheumatoid arthritis?

"Help your immune system" could mean literally anything, nice weasel words. What it specifically does is block certain immune functions to mitigate or prevent disorders involving an overactive immune system - i.e. rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc. People dying of COVID-19 are usually doing so due to respiratory damage, blood clots, or secondary infections; and even in the cases where you have cytokine storms, there's no evidence to suggest that drug in particular helps more than it hurts (for reference, you can't take hydroxychloroquine and fairly common antibiotics at the same time because of a massive risk of cardiac problems).

So the answer is no, hydroxychloroquine does not affect the immune system in such a way as to prevent, mitigate, or cure COVID-19. Listen to your fucking doctors and wear a mask.

[PosPosPos]

Why is it prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis then?

And here, at the height of classic alt-right stupidity we have our usual deplorables questioning the wisdom of doctors at the behest of a senile and ignorant fascist figurehead.

[Paranoid Android]

The President says the founder of Ford has good bloodlines.. If you’re not familiar with Henry Ford, I would encourage you to read more about him and specifically his actions during WW2 https://t.co/vniaOSR2sX

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1263...451729408?s=19

Henry Ford was a known anti-semite. He purchased the Dearborn Independence, the local newspaper, and began publishing anti-Semitsm.

https://www.thehenryford.org/collect...-complex-story

[Kiri]

And here, at the height of classic alt-right stupidity we have our usual deplorables questioning the wisdom of doctors at the behest of a senile and ignorant fascist figurehead.

Sadly, to certain people, the truth and facts are inherently political. It's less that they question the wisdom of doctors - if Trump says something is the truth, then it is the truth, and anyone disagreeing with him does so for political reasons. And if Trump comes out tomorrow saying that Hydro doesn't help and that he never said so, they will believe doctors again. Because Trump is the arbiter of truth, who decides what is fake or not:/

[Stormspark]

Because doctors believe it makes the immune system worse at communicating with itself. Thus making it attack healthy tissue less.

This is also why it's used for lupus. Rheumatoid arthritis and lupus are both autoimmune diseases (malfunctions where the immune system attacks the body's own tissues). This makes it...rather questionable for a highly contagious virus.

I think there is a good chance the US will end up topping 200k deaths. New cases are spiking hard in states that reopened.

[Deja Thoris]

This is also why it's used for lupus. Rheumatoid arthritis and lupus are both autoimmune diseases (malfunctions where the immune system attacks the body's own tissues). This makes it...rather questionable for a highly contagious virus.

I think there is a good chance the US will end up topping 200k deaths. New cases are spiking hard in states that reopened.

Badge of honour! You're doing the bigliest testing.

[kreationkin]

This is also why it's used for lupus. Rheumatoid arthritis and lupus are both autoimmune diseases (malfunctions where the immune system attacks the body's own tissues). This makes it...rather questionable for a highly contagious virus.

I'm a pharmacist - I wanted to interject briefly here.

While I want to make clear that there is NO GOOD EVIDENCE that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is useful for the prevention or treatment of covid-19 I do want to clarify that the proposed mechanism of action had more to do with Chloroquine and it's derivative HCQ having known anti-viral activity (in addition to their immune modulating action) They have been shown to prevent viral replication and viral entry into cells. This is not a particularly rare thing for a drug to do however and as seen by the latest data, HCQ should be on it's way out (it's hard to argue that it was ever really IN) as a treatment option for Covid-19.

Toward the greater discussion :

My biggest frustration with HCQ is that because Trump has dominated the narrative with it so heavily whilst simultaneously undercutting federal agencies who'd normally coordinate clinical trials during a pandemic we have been left with thousands of trials of HCQ which had no better evidence than many other proposed treatments and have caused harm to patients because of it all while getting very poor data out of it because everyone is so desperate to reach for "something, anything" on the shelf to treat these patients. The mortality rate when patients reach the ICU is still upwards of 60% and it's really, really hard to watch those folks die and not have anything to do to help.

Trump needed to get the fuck out of the way in the "ideas" department, that's not his role nor his expertise. He needed to (and still does need to) empower CDC and FDA to coordinate a massive effort to get good quality trials with enough patients enrolled to have the power to give us a good idea if the proposed treatments work, little overlap with numerous other proposed therapies so we get a clear picture of which treatments do work, and standardized endpoints so that we can actually make useful comparisons from this shit. Don't get me started on remdesivir which doesn't even look at mortality.. the most important fucking outcome we care about. We also need standardization of testing procedures and reporting procedures.

[Paranoid Android]

Antimalarial drug touted by Trump is linked to increased risk of death in coronavirus patients, study says

So what do you think now Trumpkins? Too bad Trump didn't keep taking it to prove this study wrong