Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Most likely because of this:

Hmm. Not only did we know about that study, it's got problems of its own. And yes, there's a ton of inertia they must overcome of studies the WHO, NIH, Oxford University, etc etc.

Well, if the Trump supporters want to hang their only hat on this study, they're welcome to do so. Perhaps the study will even hold up, even if it does stand out from...um...pretty much all the others.

[Thekri]

I figure even if this has already been posted, it's worth a re-post: https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...57599884935168

Also Bolsonaro tested positive. If only he had thought NOT to get tested, then he still wouldn't have it.

Was just about to post that myself. This is so hilariously messed up. I think the TV tropes name for what the Lincoln Project is doing is "Token Evil Teammate".

We know Trump loves to hate watch stuff, and he apparently does see the Lincoln Project adds from how much he rages against them (They specifically run them on his favorite programs in the DC area just to get inside his head). This one is going to fuck with his head in a big way.

I can't really endorse this sort of "campaigning", but someone unstable and insecure enough to be threatened by this has no business being President in the first place.

[Drutt]

Yeah, you are right. I am a bit tongue and cheek about it, but it wasn't intended as harsh toward the UK as it sounded. It really isn't a competition, it is hard for everyone for different reasons. Furthermore, although the UK had a really nasty spike, they did bring it back down and get it under control, something the US never did. Which means that the US is likely to pass the UK for all the worst statistics, it may just take a couple months. And Brazil might end up beating both.

Oh, don't get me wrong - the UK government absolutely deserves harsh words. They're just not as bad as pure statistics would indicate. Trump's performance has made BoJo look comparatively good, but Trump has land area and population density on his side so he looks better on paper. The reality, of course, is that if the US and the UK had the same population densities and distributions the US would be far worse than the UK, but that spread population just means it takes longer for the pandemic to reach everywhere.

I'm also really sceptical about figures for the likes of Russia and Brazil, and figures from countries like India are obviously complete nonsense. A tiny sliver of deaths with their population size? Yeah, right.

[Edge-]

Also Bolsonaro tested positive. If only he had thought NOT to get tested, then he still wouldn't have it.

I hope he pulls through, but for the damage and suffering he's caused, may he suffer greatly with the virus. I wouldn't be sad to see him need to wheel around an oxygen tank for the rest of his life as punishment for the unnecessary death he caused.

[Kheirn]

Most likely because of this:

Henry Ford Health System Study: Hydroxychloroquine Lowers COVID-19 Death Rate

I find it suspect, honestly, given that several other studies conducted over the past few months have found that it didn't help one way or the other. I don't have time to delve into the study itself, but there are experts on these boards that can do so.

That study is complete and utter shit. It simply compares death rate of treated vs non-treated, but if those treated had a higher probability of survival even without treatment than those that weren't treated it becomes completely skewed. They didn't select patients to treat at random. It would be the same as if I gave ice cream to every patient that's 80+ with previous conditions and then claim ice cream kills Covid-19 patients because those that didn't get it had a lower death rate.

A proper study sets criteria for which should be included in the study and then randomly select which patients to treat. That way you exclude treatment bias and varying death rates.

The "study" is disgusting and they should be ashamed for publishing it. They're actively trying to push for a drug that has been proven to be dangerous for treating Covid-19 and it sickens me.

[Breccia]

It’s totally hydroxy, has nothing to do with the steroids we gave to those patients at twice the rate we gave the “control” group. /s

Oh, right. Everyone knows that you change multiple variables at once, so you can choose which of the changed variables was the one that worked. /s

[Benggaul]

Hmm. Not only did we know about that study, it's got problems of its own. And yes, there's a ton of inertia they must overcome of studies the WHO, NIH, Oxford University, etc etc.

It’s totally hydroxy, has nothing to do with the steroids we gave to those patients at twice the rate we gave the “control” group. /s

That study is complete and utter shit...
The "study" is disgusting and they should be ashamed for publishing it. They're actively trying to push for a drug that has been proven to be dangerous for treating Covid-19 and it sickens me.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. I didn't have the time to read it myself today but recalled it being a bit wonky from what little I'd heard of it. Throw it on the pile of other ways Trump is actively trying to kill more Americans, I guess.

[Breccia]

Trump has already made noise about vetoing a defense spending bill, if that bill required him to rename US military installations named after Confederate traitors.

Grassley thinks the Senate would just override the veto.

Let's assume Grassley is telling the truth and/or predicting correctly. Does Trump take a stand, even if that means his veto is overridden and therefore he's a failure? Or does he accept the inevitable, retreat from his promise, and choose not to veto, even if that means breaking yet another promise and compromising on what he claims his morals are?

Tough choice for Trump. Man, who knew being a racist would be so complicated?

[Rasulis]

Another defeat for Trump.

U.S. Supreme Court ordered on Monday that construction of the long-delayed and once-resurrected Keystone XL project cannot begin.

That's the US Supreme Court. The court of last appeal.

Three in less than week if we count Dominion Energy and Duke Energy cancelation of the Atlantic Coast natural gas pipeline project and the court-ordered Dakota Access pipeline shut down.

[Thekri]

Another defeat for Trump.

U.S. Supreme Court ordered on Monday that construction of the long-delayed and once-resurrected Keystone XL project cannot begin.

That's the US Supreme Court. The court of last appeal.

Three in less than week if we count Dominion Energy and Duke Energy cancelation of the Atlantic Coast natural gas pipeline project and the court-ordered Dakota Access pipeline shut down.

This is just a stay until the supreme court makes its ruling though. The court is just saying you can't keep working while they take a look at it. Which is a bad thing for Keystone certainly, but not a final decision.

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Trump has already made noise about vetoing a defense spending bill, if that bill required him to rename US military installations named after Confederate traitors.

Grassley thinks the Senate would just override the veto.

Let's assume Grassley is telling the truth and/or predicting correctly. Does Trump take a stand, even if that means his veto is overridden and therefore he's a failure? Or does he accept the inevitable, retreat from his promise, and choose not to veto, even if that means breaking yet another promise and compromising on what he claims his morals are?

Tough choice for Trump. Man, who knew being a racist would be so complicated?

Well, I don't think it is really going to be a tough choice. McConnell isn't planning on giving it to him until after the election, so either way, Trump has no incentive to veto it.

Trump is going to sign it, and MAYBE whine about it. Also likely to just not mention it at all. Unless of course he loses the election, and just goes to Mar-A-Lago and refuses to sign anything at all.

[kaid]

This is just a stay until the supreme court makes its ruling though. The court is just saying you can't keep working while they take a look at it. Which is a bad thing for Keystone certainly, but not a final decision.

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Well, I don't think it is really going to be a tough choice. McConnell isn't planning on giving it to him until after the election, so either way, Trump has no incentive to veto it.

Trump is going to sign it, and MAYBE whine about it. Also likely to just not mention it at all. Unless of course he loses the election, and just goes to Mar-A-Lago and refuses to sign anything at all.

Biden has basically already said he will axe the permit if he is elected so this stay pushes their ability to work until after the election and at that point it may very well go poof depending on who gets elected. Also with oil prices where they are I am not sure how much sense this pipeline makes regardless in the long run.

[Rasulis]

This is just a stay until the supreme court makes its ruling though. The court is just saying you can't keep working while they take a look at it. Which is a bad thing for Keystone certainly, but not a final decision.

True and I was very specific in my wordings. I am surprised that they are still pushing the Keystone XL project at this point. The cost analysis for the Keystone XL which is intended to transport Canadian oil sands, one of the most expensive crude to produce and transport due to its viscosity, was questionable in the first place. After all the delays and with the current oil price, I just don't see how it is still going to be profitable.

[Thekri]

Biden has basically already said he will axe the permit if he is elected so this stay pushes their ability to work until after the election and at that point it may very well go poof depending on who gets elected. Also with oil prices where they are I am not sure how much sense this pipeline makes regardless in the long run.

Agreed on the first point, but on the oil price issue I think it is actually the opposite. With Oil Prices high, the Canadian Oil Sands remain viable even with higher transport costs caused by trucking and rail movement. A pipeline will reduce cost, and increase the margins for that oil. However, with very low oil prices, Transport costs send the cost per barrel of production deep into the red. Companies lose money for every barrel of Canadian oil they get to a refinery. They are willing to soak those losses for a while, hoping for a rebound, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that without a pipeline these oil fields are just not viable.

This is a great thing for the environment, and people whose land these pipelines would cross. However, it is likely the death blow to the oil booms in Western/Central Canada, and the Dakotas. Those economies were already reeling, this will drive the nails into the coffin. Which again, I am fine with. It wasn't a sustainable industry, it was a boom economy, it had no mechanism for sustainable growth. That doesn't make it easier for the people caught in it.

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True and I was very specific in my wordings. I am surprised that they are still pushing the Keystone XL project at this point. The cost analysis for the Keystone XL which is intended to transport Canadian oil sands, one of the most expensive crude to produce, was questionable in the first place. After all the delays and with the current oil price, I just don't see how it is still going to be profitable.

Right, at current prices, even with a pipeline the cost per barrel is higher then the sale price. However, everyone expects oil prices to go up somewhat, but they may never get high enough to cover the costs without a pipeline. Keystone (And similar projects) is important to energy companies because without it, all the investment into the Canadian and Dakotan oil fields is probably going to need to be abandoned.

[Edge-]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/06/polit...oup/index.html

Well this is a fun one.

Kris Kobach, remember that "VOTER FRAUD" guy whose biggest victories on that front are getting a few convictions for confused senior citizens and screwing counties and towns out of hundreds of millions of dollars by writing illegal or unenforcable policies to address illegal voting (which wasn't even happening anyways), is running for Senate!

He's a good buddy of Trumps and was on his voter fraud commission that closed up without actually doing anything.

Well, now a Republican group is working against him in his bid for Senate in Kansas. Why? Because he managed to lose the governor's race to a Democrat, and they're worried he'll repeat and lose the Senate race to a Democrat as well.

I cannot believe how relevant the wise words of Ken Watanabe continue to be for the Republican party -



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It seems like Mary Trump's book is getting into the hands of media a bit early.

She claims Trump paid someone to take the SAT for him.

She also claims Trump praised her breasts, and that his own sister called him a clown.

I can't say that I uncritically believe everything she writes, in fact I don't view her as inherently credible as I literally know nothing about her. But knowing that these kinds of claims are going to continue to pour out and infuriate Trump is more than fine for me.

[Thepersona]

Damn it Britain, why do you always have to spoil our fun? "USA is #2!" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Joking aside, that is really sad. The UK somehow managed to fuck this up worse then everyone else except maybe China. And considering that literally everybody fucked it up, that is saying something.

Dude, we're third. For fucks sake

[Benggaul]

It seems like Mary Trump's book is getting into the hands of media a bit early.

She claims Trump paid someone to take the SAT for him.

She also claims Trump praised her breasts, and that his own sister called him a clown.

I can't say that I uncritically believe everything she writes, in fact I don't view her as inherently credible as I literally know nothing about her. But knowing that these kinds of claims are going to continue to pour out and infuriate Trump is more than fine for me.

I wouldn't trust it without proof either, but you have to admit those two statements fit Trump perfectly given what is already well-known about him. I'm sure it'll be good for a source of Trump's frustration in any case.

[Thekri]

Dude, we're third. For fucks sake

I was surprised to see that too. Sorry, that sucks.

[Thepersona]

I was surprised to see that too. Sorry, that sucks.

We have a right wing government that prioritized the economy over human life, so we had it coming. It stills infuriates me to hear our local business commentators trying to argue the opening of our country, after 10k+ deaths

[Edge-]

https://apnews.com/ce86fe1ebcf5ce7b9bf5d556b54b55d5

Trump is on-pace to break his previous Executive Order record of 55 in his first year in office, with 33 already signed this year.

Let's not forget, the Republican party lost their god-damned shit over Obama using Executive Orders, and Trump himself was a particularly vocal critic of Obama's use of them.

Because hypocrisy shall never die within the Republican party.

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https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...s-us-from-WHO-

Oh, and apparently the US is no longer a part of the WHO as of yesterday. So that's fun.

[cubby]

Wait you don't think people can be easily manipulated? Have you seen who is president today? I mean a grifter is in the oval office lol

Honestly, I don't know what @draynay's issue is - we're talking about serious issues and he keeps trying to race bait us. I was merely pointing out that Kayne pushing a well-funded write-in campaign could affect some battleground states.