Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Yep. Pushing it hard today. Claiming he was vindicated on it and such.

Well, you know the drill. Trump supporters, you have 24 hours to find evidence that Trump was vindicated. Failure to find anything is proof that Trump is lying. Failure to even look for anything is proof that you know this, but also admission you're a coward for not looking.

[Felya]

Yep. Pushing it hard today. Claiming he was vindicated on it and such.

Because that girl that died was being treated with it by her parents, after she went to a church party and got sick? What?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...s-coronavirus/

A medical examiner’s report recently made public, however, has raised questions about Carsyn’s case. The Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner found that the immunocompromised teen went to a large church party with roughly 100 other children where she did not wear a mask and social distancing was not enforced. Then, after getting sick, nearly a week passed before she was taken to the hospital, and during that time her parents gave her hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malarial drug touted by President Trump that the Food and Drug Administration has issued warnings about, saying usage could cause potentially deadly heart rhythm problems.

Edit: Changed before to after...

[Felya]

The hydroxy tweet was yesterday actually. Today he's only tweeted that our mortality rate is the lowest in the world... which it isn't.

Okay... that’s better... It would have been pretty bad if he did it as a response to the above story.

[Breccia]

The hydroxy tweet was yesterday actually. Today he's only tweeted that our mortality rate is the lowest in the world... which it isn't.

I see no reason why we can't have two 24-hour challenges. Trump supporters, you have 24 hours to find evidence that our mortality rate is the lowest in the world. I'll give you two hints:

[Felya]

I see no reason why we can't have two 24-hour challenges. Trump supporters, you have 24 hours to find evidence that our mortality rate is the lowest in the world. I'll give you two hints:

My goodness... this might be embarrassing... Trump saying it, is proof it’s true in Trump World... you misinterpreted what he meant by “world”... I will think no less of you.

[Benggaul]

Ugh, is he really? The FDA already issued a warning on the stuff and he's still pushing it?

Yep. Pushing it hard today. Claiming he was vindicated on it and such.

Most likely because of this:

Henry Ford Health System Study: Hydroxychloroquine Lowers COVID-19 Death Rate

I find it suspect, honestly, given that several other studies conducted over the past few months have found that it didn't help one way or the other. I don't have time to delve into the study itself, but there are experts on these boards that can do so.

[Thekri]

I see no reason why we can't have two 24-hour challenges. Trump supporters, you have 24 hours to find evidence that our mortality rate is the lowest in the world. I'll give you two hints:

Damn it Britain, why do you always have to spoil our fun? "USA is #2!" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Joking aside, that is really sad. The UK somehow managed to fuck this up worse then everyone else except maybe China. And considering that literally everybody fucked it up, that is saying something.

[Felya]

Damn it Britain, why do you always have to spoil our fun? "USA is #2!" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Joking aside, that is really sad. The UK somehow managed to fuck this up worse then everyone else except maybe China. And considering that literally everybody fucked it up, that is saying something.

A good time to remind people that Trump’s original travel ban on Europe, excluded Britain.

The Brazilian president just tested positive...

[Drutt]

The UK somehow managed to fuck this up worse then everyone else except maybe China. And considering that literally everybody fucked it up, that is saying something.

You have to bear in mind the different logistical issues facing the UK versus a country like the US. The UK has approximately 20% of the population of the US, and has a total land area about 50% larger than Wisconsin. On top of that, the vast majority of the UK population live in England (about 85% of the population of the UK). England's land area is about 80% the size of Wisconsin.

Essentially you have very, very high population density. Now, this doesn't mean the UK did a good job; it didn't. BoJo absolutely fluffed his lines and nearly paid the price personally for it. But a tiny island with a very large population significantly magnifies the impact of mistakes when you're talking about a contagious pandemic; it's simply far easier for the virus to spread. Basically, the UK government was playing on hard mode and fluffed their lines, so the impact is worse.

Trump's biggest saving grace has been how widely dispersed across land area the US population is. That has undoubtedly slowed down progression, but even that luck is now running out for him. The bill will come due eventually, as we are starting to see.

[cubby]

I'm not "projecting" when you call Kanye a "black superstar" instead of a "superstar". I find your fixation on race to be tiresome.

Speaking of tiresome...you keep avoiding the question. We're all thoroughly enjoying your keen ability to avoid the issues.

And please stop baiting us into a race discussion - that is a forbidden topic.

[Thekri]

You have to bear in mind the different logistical issues facing the UK versus a country like the US. The UK has approximately 20% of the population of the US, and has a total land area about 50% larger than Wisconsin. On top of that, the vast majority of the UK population live in England (about 85% of the population of the UK). England's land area is about 80% the size of Wisconsin.

Essentially you have very, very high population density. Now, this doesn't mean the UK did a good job; it didn't. BoJo absolutely fluffed his lines and nearly paid the price personally for it. But a tiny island with a very large population significantly magnifies the impact of mistakes when you're talking about a contagious pandemic; it's simply far easier for the virus to spread. Basically, the UK government was playing on hard mode and fluffed their lines, so the impact is worse.

Trump's biggest saving grace has been how widely dispersed across land area the US population is. That has undoubtedly slowed down progression, but even that luck is now running out for him. The bill will come due eventually, as we are starting to see.

Yeah, you are right. I am a bit tongue and cheek about it, but it wasn't intended as harsh toward the UK as it sounded. It really isn't a competition, it is hard for everyone for different reasons. Furthermore, although the UK had a really nasty spike, they did bring it back down and get it under control, something the US never did. Which means that the US is likely to pass the UK for all the worst statistics, it may just take a couple months. And Brazil might end up beating both.

[cubby]

I am just a paint salesman at Home Depot but generally it is just in the breakroom. The most senior guy in my department hates when anyone talks politics in the department so that is nice that I don't deal with it on the floor. One of the most infuriating things though happened to me today. Just got into work and was in the breakroom just relaxing and some of the other people were talking about the Seattle protestor who got ran over by the car and one of them starting laughing about it. Saying how that is what you get for jumping in front of a car and another person was saying what do they expect when they break open windows and surround cars. I broke my rule and just loudly said that the guy drove through a police barrier on a closed section of the freeway and ran that woman over.

It's good that your Department head has that rule - I can't imagine how unbearable it would be without it.

And on the same note, sometimes you have to break the rule - especially when it becomes that intolerable, and they are so uninformed.

[Levelfive]

I figure even if this has already been posted, it's worth a re-post: https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...57599884935168

Also Bolsonaro tested positive. If only he had thought NOT to get tested, then he still wouldn't have it.

[Rasulis]

Sooooo....yeah. Looks like ICE just told students here on student visas that if their college is going online-only this fall, the students must depart the United States and cannot remain through the fall semester.

I bet this will make a lot of legacy donors from Harvard happy that a bunch of wealthy foreign students decide to just stop attending. /s Chalk up another one on the board of the right wing shooting itself in the foot by virtue of xenophobia.

Not sure why they are so deadest against foreign students. They usually ended up staying in the US and as a whole they contributed a lot to the US economy and technological advancement.

T.Y. Lin, one of the most preeminent structural engineer was a foreign student.

Sundar Pinchai, Google CEO, was a foreign student.

Satya Nadella, Microsoft CEO, was a foreign student.

The list just goes on and on.

[Breccia]

Most likely because of this:

Hmm. Not only did we know about that study, it's got problems of its own. And yes, there's a ton of inertia they must overcome of studies the WHO, NIH, Oxford University, etc etc.

Well, if the Trump supporters want to hang their only hat on this study, they're welcome to do so. Perhaps the study will even hold up, even if it does stand out from...um...pretty much all the others.

[Thekri]

I figure even if this has already been posted, it's worth a re-post: https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...57599884935168

Also Bolsonaro tested positive. If only he had thought NOT to get tested, then he still wouldn't have it.

Was just about to post that myself. This is so hilariously messed up. I think the TV tropes name for what the Lincoln Project is doing is "Token Evil Teammate".

We know Trump loves to hate watch stuff, and he apparently does see the Lincoln Project adds from how much he rages against them (They specifically run them on his favorite programs in the DC area just to get inside his head). This one is going to fuck with his head in a big way.

I can't really endorse this sort of "campaigning", but someone unstable and insecure enough to be threatened by this has no business being President in the first place.

[Drutt]

Yeah, you are right. I am a bit tongue and cheek about it, but it wasn't intended as harsh toward the UK as it sounded. It really isn't a competition, it is hard for everyone for different reasons. Furthermore, although the UK had a really nasty spike, they did bring it back down and get it under control, something the US never did. Which means that the US is likely to pass the UK for all the worst statistics, it may just take a couple months. And Brazil might end up beating both.

Oh, don't get me wrong - the UK government absolutely deserves harsh words. They're just not as bad as pure statistics would indicate. Trump's performance has made BoJo look comparatively good, but Trump has land area and population density on his side so he looks better on paper. The reality, of course, is that if the US and the UK had the same population densities and distributions the US would be far worse than the UK, but that spread population just means it takes longer for the pandemic to reach everywhere.

I'm also really sceptical about figures for the likes of Russia and Brazil, and figures from countries like India are obviously complete nonsense. A tiny sliver of deaths with their population size? Yeah, right.

[Edge-]

Also Bolsonaro tested positive. If only he had thought NOT to get tested, then he still wouldn't have it.

I hope he pulls through, but for the damage and suffering he's caused, may he suffer greatly with the virus. I wouldn't be sad to see him need to wheel around an oxygen tank for the rest of his life as punishment for the unnecessary death he caused.

[Kheirn]

Most likely because of this:

Henry Ford Health System Study: Hydroxychloroquine Lowers COVID-19 Death Rate

I find it suspect, honestly, given that several other studies conducted over the past few months have found that it didn't help one way or the other. I don't have time to delve into the study itself, but there are experts on these boards that can do so.

That study is complete and utter shit. It simply compares death rate of treated vs non-treated, but if those treated had a higher probability of survival even without treatment than those that weren't treated it becomes completely skewed. They didn't select patients to treat at random. It would be the same as if I gave ice cream to every patient that's 80+ with previous conditions and then claim ice cream kills Covid-19 patients because those that didn't get it had a lower death rate.

A proper study sets criteria for which should be included in the study and then randomly select which patients to treat. That way you exclude treatment bias and varying death rates.

The "study" is disgusting and they should be ashamed for publishing it. They're actively trying to push for a drug that has been proven to be dangerous for treating Covid-19 and it sickens me.

[Breccia]

It’s totally hydroxy, has nothing to do with the steroids we gave to those patients at twice the rate we gave the “control” group. /s

Oh, right. Everyone knows that you change multiple variables at once, so you can choose which of the changed variables was the one that worked. /s