1. #48161
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    It even says in the article Breccia quoted: "According to court filings, before the pandemic, the Grenons marketed MMS as a cure for many other serious diseases, including Alzheimer’s, autism, multiple sclerosis, and HIV/AIDS."
    I’d go as far as to say, this is likely what Trump meant by his disinfectant comment. It would be in the same conspiracy circles Trump usually pushes, with his understanding limited enough to say what he did.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  2. #48162
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It's an OP ED, but the title Do Americans Understand How Badly They’re Doing? gives a quick idea of what's in there. It's a week old...things are actually now worse than the article says.

    The perspective is an American who moved to France, who keeps up to date on US news but also knows what France did/is doing. The comparison is direct and somber.
    I'm going to post some excerpts from the article. Very well written.

    France has the virus under control.

    The numbers are not ambiguous. From a peak of 7,581 new cases across the country on March 31, and with a death toll now just below 30,000—at one point the world’s fourth highest—there were just 526 new cases on June 13, the day we masked ourselves and took the train back to Paris. The caseload continues to be small and manageable.
    When Trump supporters mean the liberals are the great evil of the world, they are including a LOT of people.

    America, however, is an utter disaster. Texas, Florida, and Arizona are the newest hubs of contagion, having apparently learned nothing from the other countries and states that previously experienced surges in cases. I stared at my phone in disbelief when the musician Rosanne Cash wrote on Twitter that her daughter had been called a “liberal pussy!” in Nashville for wearing a mask to buy groceries.
    The world in internalizing the fall of America, which is in progress as we speak.

    America is my home, and I have not emigrated. I have always found the truest expression of my situation in James Baldwin’s label of “transatlantic commuter.” I have lived in France off and on since the early 2000s, and it has been instructive over the decades to glimpse America’s stature reflected back to me through the eyes of a quasi-foreigner. If the country sparked fear and intense resentment under George W. Bush and mild resentment mixed with vicarious pride under Barack Obama, what it provokes under Trump has been something entirely new: pity and indifference. We are the pariah state now, but do we even see it?

  3. #48163
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I’d go as far as to say, this is likely what Trump meant by his disinfectant comment. It would be in the same conspiracy circles Trump usually pushes, with his understanding limited enough to say what he did.
    It almost certainly is. As Edge-'s post alluded, Grenon sent Trump a letter touting the benefits of MMS a few days before Trump's now-infamous bleach gaffe.
    The leader of the most prominent group in the US peddling potentially lethal industrial bleach as a “miracle cure” for coronavirus wrote to Donald Trump at the White House this week.

    In his letter, Mark Grenon told Trump that chlorine dioxide – a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk – is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”.

    A few days after Grenon dispatched his letter, Trump went on national TV at his daily coronavirus briefing at the White House on Thursday and promoted the idea that disinfectant could be used as a treatment for the virus. To the astonishment of medical experts, the US president said that disinfectant “knocks it out in a minute. One minute!”

    He went on to say: “Is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that.”

    Trump did not specify where the idea of using disinfectant as a possible remedy for Covid-19 came from, and the source for his notion remains obscure. But the Guardian has learned that peddlers of chlorine dioxide – industrial bleach – have been making direct approaches to the White House in recent days.

    Grenon styles himself as “archbishop” of Genesis II – a Florida-based outfit that claims to be a church but which in fact is the largest producer and distributor of chlorine dioxide bleach as a “miracle cure” in the US. He brands the chemical as MMS, “miracle mineral solution”, and claims fraudulently that it can cure 99% of all illnesses including cancer, malaria, HIV/Aids as well as autism.

    Since the start of the pandemic, Genesis II has been marketing MMS as a cure to coronavirus. It advises users, including children, to mix three to six drops of bleach in water and drink it.

    In his weekly televised radio show, posted online on Sunday, Grenon read out the letter he wrote to Trump. He said it began: “Dear Mr President, I am praying you read this letter and intervene.”

    Grenon said that 30 of his supporters have also written in the past few days to Trump at the White House urging him to take action to protect Genesis II in its bleach-peddling activities which they claim can cure coronavirus.

    On Friday, hours after Trump talked about disinfectant on live TV, Grenon went further in a post on his Facebook page. He claimed that MMS had actually been sent to the White House. He wrote: “Trump has got the MMS and all the info!!! Things are happening folks! Lord help others to see the Truth!”

    Paradoxically, Trump’s outburst about the possible value of an “injection” of disinfectant into the lungs of Covid-19 sufferers came just days after a leading agency within the president’s own administration took action to shut down the peddling of bleach as a coronavirus cure around the US.

    Last week the US Food and Drug Administration obtained a federal court order barring Genesis II from selling what was described as “an unproven and potentially harmful treatment for Covid-19”. The FDA also ordered a disciple of Genesis II, Kerri Rivera, to remove claims that MMS cured coronavirus from her website.

    Last August the FDA issued an urgent warning urging Americans not to buy or drink MMS, which it said was a “dangerous bleach which has caused serious and potentially life-threatening side effects”. Drinking MMS can cause nausea, diarrhea and severe dehydration that can lead to death, the federal agency said.

    The Guardian contacted the White House asking whether Grenon’s letter had influenced Trump’s comments on disinfectant, but did not immediately receive a response.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  4. #48164
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Grenon sent Trump a letter touting the benefits of MMS a few days before Trump's now-infamous bleach gaffe
    When people say we elected a snake-oil salesman, I didn't think it'd end up being quite so literal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Likely rolling their eyes and sighing, the CDC will release new guidelines next week on how to safely reopen schools.

    As this announcement comes within a day of Trump tweeting that the CDC was being too strict, expect the new rules to be a lot Trumpier. For example, a lot of schools can't separate their students by six feet in their existing classrooms, and don't have the money to fix it. I expect the guidelines to be a variation of "put them in the classroom anyhow, and we're not paying you extra".

    Incidentally, the push to get schools open could easily be part of the "get back to work, even if it's unsafe" policy that Team Trump is pushing hard. Without payment.

  5. #48165
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    When people say we elected a snake-oil salesman, I didn't think it'd end up being quite so literal.
    It is... every single prominent alt right fucker pushes supplements. Some have other schemes, but selling pretty much snake oil is common across all. Alex Jones producer have even gone on rants against debunking youtubers, because their supplements all have soy. While hating soy so much, he literally used the... “we remove the bad parts of soy” argument...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  6. #48166
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Alex Jones producer have even gone on rants against debunking youtubers
    InfoWars Founder Alex Jones Must Stop Selling Fake Coronavirus Silver Cures, FDA Says

    The warning letter comes three weeks after New York Attorney General Letitia James ordered Jones to stop marketing his products, which include “SuperSilver Whitening Toothpaste” and “SuperSilver Wound Dressing Gel” as cures for coronavirus.

    Many of Jones’ products include mention of colloidal silver, which is small particles of silver in a liquid solution. The FDA has previously said there is no scientific evidence to show colloidal silver helps with any health issues.

    The FDA warning letter orders Jones to correct his misbranding immediately, and contact the FDA within 48 hours to describe the steps he will take to rebrand these products.

    Failure to correct these violations, the letter says, “may result in legal action including, without limitation, seizure and injunction.”
    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh boy.



    - - - Updated - - -

    As a reminder, while we might not see Trump's taxes, he does have to file his fiscal disclosure forms. No, these are not as good as tax forms. On fiscal disclosure forms, you can say things like "TEN BILLION DOLLARS!" and answer questions in spans, not specific figures. Plus, they don't say which tax loopholes you used to pay no taxes, again. It's in the "better than nothing" column.

    And he just pushed them back 45 days.

    "You already posted that."

    No no, that extension was until June 30th. Trump still didn't do it, so he got another one. Incidentally, if Trump is scared of even releasing this vague, inaccurate document, then things are really that bad. Too many bribes paid to him? Too many loans to himself? Is he unable to cover how poor he really is? Did he pay too much relief money to his own properties?

  7. #48167
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    When people say we elected a snake-oil salesman, I didn't think it'd end up being quite so literal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Likely rolling their eyes and sighing, the CDC will release new guidelines next week on how to safely reopen schools.

    As this announcement comes within a day of Trump tweeting that the CDC was being too strict, expect the new rules to be a lot Trumpier. For example, a lot of schools can't separate their students by six feet in their existing classrooms, and don't have the money to fix it. I expect the guidelines to be a variation of "put them in the classroom anyhow, and we're not paying you extra".

    Incidentally, the push to get schools open could easily be part of the "get back to work, even if it's unsafe" policy that Team Trump is pushing hard. Without payment.
    They're desperate to get back to normal, even when some states are in the brink of collapse and about to close again
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  8. #48168
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    They're desperate to get back to normal, even when some states are in the brink of collapse and about to close again
    Pretty much this.

    Presiding over a shuttered country with hundreds of thousands of people dead doesn't look good for his image, after all. Trump can't actually solve the problem, so he'll do what he does for every other problem he can't actually solve (read... "all of them)" ... pretend that the problem has magically disappeared.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #48169
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    They're desperate to get back to normal, even when some states are in the brink of collapse and about to close again
    Religious worship is part of the problem as well. The desperation to "get back to normal" is killing us. People congregate in enclosed places and it strengthens the virus.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/churches-...120612082.html

    Title: Churches Were Eager to Reopen. Now They Are a Major Source of Coronavirus Cases.

    It's a pretty depressing article. People pack in at beaches, at bars, in restaurants, and in churches, and then seem surprised when someone they know dies. The defiance against wearing masks and social distancing is psychotic and substantially weakening the country.

  10. #48170
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    It's a pretty depressing article.
    I'm pretty sure I can just say "older people are more likely to go to church" without citing evidence and get away with it, since most people here would agree.

    Nah, just kidding. Here's a world-spanning study from 2018. And this Pew Research article mentions several.



    Simply put, churchgoing audiences are more likely to be older and therefore more vulnerable. Packing people into them is extraordinarily risky right now. Why Trump wanted packed churches by Easter is pretty obvious, he wants the religious right vote, but that move was going to cost lives of the very group he was courting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Multiple sites, including Forbes, talk about this scathing report of Facebook's policies:

    The report summarizing the two-year audit, led by former American Civil Liberties Union executive Laura W. Murphy, describes Facebook’s approach to civil rights as a “seesaw of progress and setbacks,” finding that while the company has made “significant improvements” with regard to civil rights, these changes are “inadequate” and the overall approach “remains too reactive and piecemeal.”

    Among the changes Facebook should make, the auditors advise, are a “stronger interpretation” and enforcement of its voter suppression policies, more resources toward addressing organized hate on the platform, addressing issues of bias and discrimination in its algorithm, going beyond simply banning white nationalists and supremacists, and “more visible and consistent prioritization of civil rights” in Facebook’s overall decision-making.

    The audit expresses “significant concern” over CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s repeated defense of free expression on Facebook—used to explain the company’s refusal to fact-check political ads—saying that “the prioritization of free expression over all other values, such as equality and non-discrimination, is deeply troubling.”

    Auditors also flagged the prevalence of misinformation around voting ahead of the November election, writing that they’re “confounded...as to why Facebook has failed to grasp the urgency of interpreting existing policies to make them effective against suppression.”
    "That's nonsense. Who even asked for this?"

    Facebook did. In 2018. It was a multi-part audit, one that basically cleared them on working with Cambridge Analytica.

    This timing is not great news for FB, who is already losing more money than Blizzard is worth due to a boycott, and could be dragged before the House for profiting off of intentionally-spread misinformation.

  11. #48171
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    So apparently Chief Justice Roberts took a spill a few weeks back which required an overnight stay at a hospital and we're JUST now hearing about this. Christ we do NOT need Trump to have ANOTHER SCOTUS pick.
    I think that's hard to say what might constitute an actual 'overnight stay'. I mean, he could've just been sitting around the emergency room lobby all night with a towel on his forehead waiting to be seen.

  12. #48172
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    lol bolsonaro took hyroxichloriquine on video
    bolsonaro is 65
    would be a shame if its not the miracle drug he and trump advertised
    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...50056926003200

    i hate posting GG greenwald content since he himself is a populism stooge but w/e for context i have to
    Betting 5 bucks that's nothing but a sucrose pill.

  13. #48173
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...only-students/



    When's the last time prominent universities sued the administration? What a shitshow
    I work for the US Department of Energy and Princeton University. I received a university wide email from the President of the university (Dr. Eisgruber) yesterday. I have never read a more scathing email in regards to a government policy.

    "Heartless, senseless, ill-defined, cruel, disruptive, damaging, misguided, unnecessary, wholly irresponsible, arbitrary, policy making at it's very worst."

    Just a few of the adjective he used.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

    Sovereign
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  14. #48174
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    "Heartless, senseless, ill-defined, cruel, disruptive, damaging, misguided, unnecessary, wholly irresponsible, arbitrary, policy making at it's very worst."
    It’s sad that I had to scroll up and read the context, since there are so many policy decisions made by Trump’s administration that fit this.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  15. #48175
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If most schools opened back up the daily death toll by the end of the year would be quite ridiculous. Kids are dirty grimy goblins spreading anything and everything wherever they go.
    mY cHiLd CaN't WeAr A mAsK, tHeY hAvE aUtIsM cAuSeD bY vAcCiNeS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  16. #48176
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    mY cHiLd CaN't WeAr A mAsK, tHeY hAvE aUtIsM cAuSeD bY vAcCiNeS.
    Ma’am, are you sure this isn’t hereditary?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #48177
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Ma’am, are you sure this isn’t hereditary?
    "Get the Manager!!!"

  18. #48178
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    "Get the Manager!!!"
    I don’t think people working retail right now get the respect they deserve. I know many are just young and naive, but many recognize the impact of covid and still do their shit job, for shit pay, for a public that seems to hate them. I think due to covid, our view of retail workers needs to change.

    Sorry to go off topic, but trying to spread a little respect for folks working retail...

    Edit: I haven’t seen the usual 2 Indian guys at 7/11 for a few weeks and there is a new young kid I noticed. I don’t know them, but I spent years stoping bye and buying smokes/junk food. I’m honestly concerned if they are alright... I kind of miss them...
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-07-09 at 12:36 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #48179
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Here comes the taxes...

    Supreme Court says Manhattan district attorney can get Trump tax records
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/supr...x-records.html

    The Supreme Court on Thursday voted 7-2 against President Donald Trump in a case over whether he could shield his tax records from the Manhattan district attorney.

    Chief Justice John Roberts authored the court’s opinion, which was joined by Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Neil Gorsuch wrote separately to explain their votes with the majority. Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented.
    The house request is rejected... more info incoming.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-07-09 at 02:28 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  20. #48180
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Here comes the taxes...

    Supreme Court says Manhattan district attorney can get Trump tax records
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/supr...x-records.html
    Not quite... the position is that there are no additional barriers due to him being president, throwing out his argument that being the president provides a privileged position where he cannot be subpoenaed in such a manner due to article II and the supremacy clause.

    Still a huge step forward, though. And hopefully starts up the momentum to crack the walls he's thrown up trying to hide from the light of day.

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