Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Nellise]

Many of the 32,000 New York deaths were preventable...deaths which were the direct result of Cuomo's incompetence when he signed an executive order that sent infected seniors back to their nursing homes to infect and kill the most vulnerable. Yeah, I agree...context matters.

BTW, if blue states are doing so well...how are things going in California?

I asked this of the other person arguing this. What is it that you're arguing for? That every state should have a chance to do poorly before we call them out for doing things poorly?

[Benggaul]

And he would rightly deserve criticism for any mishandling on his part, but I fail to see how NY, which is currently doing pretty well, is currently part of the problem.



I've never said they're all doing well, actually. CA, my state, isn't doing super hot right now due to re-opening too early.

However total deaths are sitting at 7K, which is above many states. But when you account for population differences it's not doing too bad - https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

And we've taken action by closing things down again and mandating masks. In opposition to say, Georgia, which literally just banned mask mandates. As I said, California re-opened too early and too many people weren't following guidelines. I'm not defending the idiots in my state who are shitting the bed, but at least my state government hasn't been directly contributing with repeatedly bad, non-science based policies.

California also has fewer cases per 1mill pop, fewer deaths per 1mill pop and has done more tests per 1mill pop than, say, Florida. California screwed up after doing REALLY well for so long at the start of it, like you say, but the leadership there has been doing their best to get it under control as opposed to most of the South where, well, wearing a mask is seen as some liberal agenda thing or whatever.

[cubby]

Many of the 32,000 New York deaths were preventable...deaths which were the direct result of Cuomo's incompetence when he signed an executive order that sent infected seniors back to their nursing homes to infect and kill the most vulnerable. Yeah, I agree...context matters.

BTW, if blue states are doing so well...how are things going in California?

Any links for this? Any data to back up your claims? Or just more of your unfounded lies?

We'll wait for that documentation...

[Hadriker]

Not sure where this "Blue states have a higher rate" is coming from. Ya'll need to check the updated #'s if you think that, the recent rate of increases are WAY higher in red states right now as a result of politicizing the pandemic. They falsely claimed it was a hoax, didn't protect themselves, red state governors played along, and the rates now are through the roof there.

Red states in fact are a complete dumpster fire when it comes to the pandemic right now. And not just red states in the south. Iowa is a mess for example. More Americans have died from COVID-19 than the Vietnam and Korean wars combined, and it was all avoidable with even semi-competent national leadership. Instead we got lies about it being a hoax, lies that masks somehow cause health problems despite being used for over 100 years, lies that the CDC was conspiring against us, or the WHO, or Dr. Fauci, and now lies that it's somehow everyone else's fault except for the people that mislead us for their own selfish greedy and political reasons to not listen to the doctors back in January-February when this started.

I live in one of those red states and it is driving me up the wall with how absolutely stupid people are being. My city just enacted a mandatory mask mandate that went into effect today. The local social media posts are just crawling with dumb ass people spouting civil liberty, conspiracy ridden bullshit every chance they get. People are so entrenched in their political views they refuse to even look at the facts. it just exhausting at this point.

[cubby]

And it only took 6 fucking months to reach that milestone. This is why I continue to be blown away at just how casually the nation, and government continues to treat a pandemic that's killing Americans at a faster rate than any war we've ever been in, even if you count deaths on both sides of the Civil War.

Because of Trump's lies and his insane fan-base/cult following him over the cliff like the lemmings they are. We just have to look north to see how it should have been handled - across the board, in every category, Canada had an almost idealistic response.

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I live in one of those red states and it is driving me up the wall with how absolutely stupid people are being. My city just enacted a mandatory mask mandate that went into effect today. The local social media posts are just crawling with dumb ass people spouting civil liberty, conspiracy ridden bullshit every chance they get. People are so entrenched in their political views they refuse to even look at the facts. it just exhausting at this point.

And that's the America we live in now. Even worse, it is really clear that only one side of the political spectrum is ignoring facts and reality - science and empirical data from other country's responses tells us what works, and yet the people on the GOP/Trump side of things just ignores it. Causing the deaths of 10's of thousands of people.

[Zan15]

So I'm now supposed to believe that blue states are doing an awesome job ignoring the fact that the vast majority of Covid-19 deaths have been in these states?

maybe you don't know what "are doing" means as apposed to "did"?

Many of the 32,000 New York deaths were preventable...deaths which were the direct result of Cuomo's incompetence when he signed an executive order that sent infected seniors back to their nursing homes to infect and kill the most vulnerable. Yeah, I agree...context matters.

BTW, if blue states are doing so well...how are things going in California?

I mean one would expect that nursing homes are used to procedures and protocols that should prevent the spreading of communicable viruses? Yes Cuomo is to blame for not making sure this would work or testing it out on a small scale first but he is not alone in blame at all. Not to mention the months of ZERO help from the federal /trump administration.

[masterhorus8]

California also has fewer cases per 1mill pop, fewer deaths per 1mill pop and has done more tests per 1mill pop than, say, Florida. California screwed up after doing REALLY well for so long at the start of it, like you say, but the leadership there has been doing their best to get it under control as opposed to most of the South where, well, wearing a mask is seen as some liberal agenda thing or whatever.

Except for Orange County... Fuck these people.

K-12 children represent the lowest-risk cohort for Covid-19. Because of that fact, social distancing of children and reduced census classrooms is not necessary and therefore not recommended.

That's a quote from the Orange County Board of Education meeting a few days ago. Thankfully, our School Districts our smarter than they are and are still going to do their own stuff.

[DocSavageFan]

I asked this of the other person arguing this. What is it that you're arguing for? That every state should have a chance to do poorly before we call them out for doing things poorly?

No, that's not my point. My point is that it's hypocritical as hell to point only to Republican governance failures while completely ignoring both past and present Democratic governance failures.

[Nellise]

Any links for this? Any data to back up your claims? Or just more of your unfounded lies?

There is this: https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ents-into-them

No, that's not my point. My point is that it's hypocritical as hell to point only to Republican governance failures while completely ignoring both past and present Democratic governance failures.

I think the difference is most of the Democrat run states are at least trying to put measures into place to slow the spread. Florida and Georgia are sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LaLaLa everything is fine!" Like Texas got crap for reopening too early, but at least now Abbott is taking some measures to try to fix things.

[DocSavageFan]

I mean one would expect that nursing homes are used to procedures and protocols that should prevent the spreading of communicable viruses? Yes Cuomo is to blame for not making sure this would work or testing it out on a small scale first but he is not alone in blame at all. Not to mention the months of ZERO help from the federal /trump administration.

One would expect that nursing homes are used to procedures and protocols that should prevent the spreading of communicable viruses? Are you serious? Cuomo signed that Executive Order despite strong objections from the medical community. Don't try to rationalize this travesty...Cuomo is 100% the blame for 1000's of unnecessary deaths in NY.

Please provide your citation that the Trump administration refused to help New York for months.

[cubby]

No, that's not my point. My point is that it's hypocritical as hell to point only to Republican governance failures while completely ignoring both past and present Democratic governance failures.

Can you link some of those for us? You make claims without legitimate evidence.

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One would expect that nursing homes are used to procedures and protocols that should prevent the spreading of communicable viruses? Are you serious? Cuomo signed that Executive Order despite strong objections from the medical community. Don't try to rationalize this travesty...Cuomo is 100% the blame for 1000's of unnecessary deaths in NY.

Please provide your citation that the Trump administration refused to help New York for months.

I think we'll wait for all the cites you have been asked for but continue to ignore and fail to produce. Your history of mistruths and lies is working heavily against you on this subject.

[Benggaul]

Except for Orange County... Fuck these people.



That's a quote from the Orange County Board of Education meeting a few days ago. Thankfully, our School Districts our smarter than they are and are still going to do their own stuff.

I was going to say "with the exception of a few counties" but I didn't have any links handy to back it up so I elected not to.

Of course, now Press Sec MAGA Nanny is saying that "science shouldn't stand in the way" of schools reopening, so seriously, fuck her, fuck Trump and fuck each and every one of their dumbshit supporters.

[SirBeef]

For the 100th time...please stopping baiting me with your TJ horseshit.

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Thanks for admitting that the recent spike in cases is much broader and not just confined to the Southern states.

The stop posting your alway easily disprovable bullshit. I mean you tried to counter my point with information that proved my point as a gotcha.

[Zan15]

One would expect that nursing homes are used to procedures and protocols that should prevent the spreading of communicable viruses? Are you serious? Cuomo signed that Executive Order despite strong objections from the medical community. Don't try to rationalize this travesty...Cuomo is 100% the blame for 1000's of unnecessary deaths in NY.

Please provide your citation that the Trump administration refused to help New York for months.

Yes i am serious, i didn't send my grandmother to a nursing home under the expectation that they have no procedures to prevent something from spreading even before COVID. Hell the Flu is something seriously contagious that they have to protect against in nursing homes to prevent an outright mass infection of everyone. they used to shut down visits and put the place on full lockdown during bad flu seasons.

But we know why they failed, because most of these places are for profit nursing homes that had no money spent on emergency supplies. when it came time to buckle down and follow procedures they failed.

Not trying to rationalize anything. Cuomo is also to blame never said he wasn't.


As for Trump and NY, god son you have a short term memory block? Just go back and read the back and forth and the refusals from the trump administration. 400 ventilators vs the 30,000 they wanted was just the tip of the ice burg in the trump administration refusing to help NY for days, weeks and months.

[Ursus]

Of course, now Press Sec MAGA Nanny is saying that "science shouldn't stand in the way" of schools reopening, so seriously, fuck her, fuck Trump and fuck each and every one of their dumbshit supporters.

I don't know, she might be onto something there. I too am tired of science standing in the way of things, like how science says the money in my wallet can't magically reproduce and multiply, or how science says my penis won't spontaneously grow to be 10 inches.

[DocSavageFan]

There is this: https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ents-into-them



I think the difference is most of the Democrat run states are at least trying to put measures into place to slow the spread. Florida and Georgia are sticking their fingers in their ears and going "LaLaLa everything is fine!" Like Texas got crap for reopening too early, but at least now Abbott is taking some measures to try to fix things.

Most Republican run states are also trying to put measures into place to slow the spread as well. These spikes should be no surprise...as we always knew that hotspots would likely develop as the nation reopened.

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As for Trump and NY, god son you have a short term memory block? Just go back and read the back and forth and the refusals from the trump administration. 400 ventilators vs the 30,000 they wanted was just the tip of the ice burg in the trump administration refusing to help NY for days, weeks and months.

Second request. Citation please.

[cubby]

Most Republican run states are also trying to put measures into place to slow the spread as well. This should be no surprise...as we always knew that hotspots would likely develop as the nation reopened.

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Second request. Citation please.

Still no citations from you after multiple requests. Wondering how you think we owe you everything after you fail to provide anything.

The claims you are making are unsubstantiated on several levels. You need to start backing up your statements with citations if you hope to avert your current reputation trend. So far it's just more of the same.

[Edge-]

Most Republican run states are also trying to put measures into place to slow the spread as well.

Citation needed*

Looking at the Kaiser datat collected - https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...s-coronavirus/

Stay at Home - California is the only state with the mandate statewide, most states have lifted them including AZ/FL/TX where they're spiking, and GA has rolled its back to only high risk areas

Mandatory quarantine for travelers - Largely non-existent or lifted, NM, MD, MA, and ND have them for all travelers, some other northern states for select travelers, and FL has some from certain states.

Non-essential businesses - Again, looking around it seems that Republican states, including those that are spiking, are continuing to largely allow limited or expansive re-openings with reduced capacity. Thankfully TX and AZ are limiting them again in light of the spikes there.

Large gatherings - Again, you largely see Republican led states either lifting those restrictions, including areas where it's spiking like FL, or reducing them like GA, though again thankfully it looks like a few of the hardest hit states like TX and AZ are starting to finally limit them again.

Restaurants - Again, looking at most of them they've either re-opened to dine-in service fully or with limited capacity, AZ seems to be one of the only one introducing new capacity limits, and none are closing it back down like CA.

Bars - Again, broadly re-opened, but thankfully with some of the problem states like FL, TX, CA and others closing them recently. GA remains re-opened along with a number of other southern states.

Masks - Again, thankfully a few more Republicans states are moving back to mask mandates, but again you continue to have issues in many of the Republican hotspot states - AZ doesn't mandate it but allows for counties to, FL, MS, SC, TN and others don't mandate it either. GA, as mentioned, just fucking banned counties from mandating it, but thankfully a few of the states like TX and AL have started mandating now.

This should be no surprise...as we always knew that hotspots would likely develop as the nation reopened.

No, they didn't. See folks like DeSantis or Abbot/Patrick and their comments leading into these spikes, and during the early days of them, and for folks like DeSantis on through today. Kemp too. They continue to reject reality and were/are largely in denial on the seriousness of the outbreaks and the risks.

Almost like it's not a matter of life and death and science, but purely a political issue to them.

[Waniou]

The Senate can remove him. The House simply sends it to the Senate for trial.

Oh my bad, this is me mixing up terminology. I was using House to refer to both Houses but forgot that the House of Representatives is only the lower House and doesn't include the Senate.

[Zan15]

Second request. Citation please.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...navirus-151311

Now you show them yours? Of course not....