Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Thekri]

Worth noting the Authorization for the Use of Military Force is still in effect.

Trump can unilaterally turn the Persian Gulf into a crater filled with nuclear fallout on a whim.

There is plenty he and his cronies can do to screw the country in the short term once he has his retirement date.

Most of Trump's favorite people are Gulf State princes, why would he do that?

[Twdft]

Most of Trump's favorite people are Gulf State princes, why would he do that?

[kaid]

5th Amendment.

All Americans have a right to due process. Which means that we need to know why we're being arrested and who's arresting us, otherwise the 5th is pointless. If these goons are unidentifiable, then it may as well be a kidnapping rather than an arrest.

It doesn't matter what these "protesters" (rioters) pull, they are Americans, they deserve rights as laid out by the Bill of Rights.

Also, I don't want to live in a country with a fucking gestapo.

It is also dangerous for the officers performing these "arrests". If you are in a rental vehicle in camo and don't identify yourself as police you are in serious risk of some armed citizen engaging you assuming you are some kidnapper and while I am not sure how that plays out in court is owning the libs worth dying over.

[RadasNoir]

Praying to the wrong god.

Maybe we should try Odin rather than the god of the Jews and Christians?

If I've learned anything from a casual interest in mythology it's that most gods, regardless of the culture or pantheon, are assholes. Or are capable of going full asshole on a whim, even if they're not all the time.

Odin, for example, tended to care more about Asgard than humanity. He'd specifically wander the land disguised as a hermit trying to start horrific wars, so he'd have spare warriors in Valhalla when Ragnarok finally came. An epidemic isn't quite a war, but he'd probably take what he could get.

[Antiganon]

Most of Trump's favorite people are Gulf State princes, why would he do that?

As a giant "fuck you" to the incoming administration and the Americans who didn't vote for him, who now has to deal with the consequences?

I'm not saying this would be a smart idea or in his own interest. I'm saying he has the ability to completely fuck things up for everyone for the forseeable future if he loses the election, and there is very little anyone outside the Pentagon can do about it.

[Stormspark]

As a giant "fuck you" to the incoming administration and the Americans who didn't vote for him, who now has to deal with the consequences?

I'm not saying this would be a smart idea or in his own interest. I'm saying he has the ability to completely fuck things up for everyone for the forseeable future if he loses the election, and there is very little anyone outside the Pentagon can do about it.

To get any sort of standing back in the world after this is over, will require the US to have its own Nuremberg Trials. Ideally EVERY Republican who enabled Trump should be sent to the ICC and sentenced by them. And until something like that happens, noone should have any diplomatic relations with the US.

[PrimiOne]

I'm not saying this would be a smart idea or in his own interest. I'm saying he has the ability to completely fuck things up for everyone for the forseeable future if he loses the election, and there is very little anyone outside the Pentagon can do about it.

If he loses the election he is going to expend the next 4 years whining about election fraud,unfair media,etc. and run for 2024.

I would bet money on it.

Now, I'm not even saying he is gonna win the 2024 republican nomination ( maybe the GOP learns from its mistakes ,maybe not ) but I do say he is gonna spend the next 4 years in a perpetual Savior of America campaign so ,for once , his ego works as an inertia stabilizer for whatever crazy thing he could think of in his way out of oval office.

[Gorsameth]

Fuck Florida is running out of hospital beds



You can't make this shit up.



DeSantis is clearly the problem -- the mayors are enforcing fines and curfews. My concern is the "smaller counties" bit. Yes, rural Southern voters are most likely to be mask-denying rabid fanbase members. But they're also most likely to be poor and far from what little medical infrastructure they have. That, and their school systems probably are underfunded...and I suspect (this is conjecture) they're least ready to swap to online learning.

Hopefully this is the peak, and the overcrowding of hospitals forces Florida to understand this is real, and they have to change their behavior accordingly.

Hopefully.

Did Florida go into a full lockdown 2 weeks ago?
If not then why would this be the peak?

Its 2 weeks from the moment you take actual measures to reach the peak in cases, no actual measures have yet to be taken so a peak is still more then 2 weeks out.

[Antiganon]

If he loses the election he is going to expend the next 4 years whining about election fraud,unfair media,etc. and run for 2024.

I would bet money on it.

Now, I'm not even saying he is gonna win the 2024 republican nomination ( maybe the GOP learns from its mistakes ,maybe not ) but I do say he is gonna spend the next 4 years in a perpetual Savior of America campaign so ,for once , his ego works as an inertia stabilizer for whatever crazy thing he could think of in his way out of oval office.

I could not possibly care less what he does after January 20, 2021, assuming he loses. He will be indicted by the Southern District of New York for financial crimes and likely spend time in a New York State Penitentiary.

My concern is what he does between November 3rd and January 20th after he finds out he lost his job and is being fired in 2 months. He is a petty vindictive man, and I don't put it past him to do severe and lasting damage to the country on his way out for no reason other than to punish those who opposed him. The last acts of a desperate tyrant.

[Thekri]

If he loses the election he is going to expend the next 4 years whining about election fraud,unfair media,etc. and run for 2024.

I would bet money on it.

Now, I'm not even saying he is gonna win the 2024 republican nomination ( maybe the GOP learns from its mistakes ,maybe not ) but I do say he is gonna spend the next 4 years in a perpetual Savior of America campaign so ,for once , his ego works as an inertia stabilizer for whatever crazy thing he could think of in his way out of oval office.

I think there is two possibilities for Trump's current "Strategy" for reelection:

1) There is no actual strategy, it is clear he is calling the shots personally, and he is simply not coherent enough to have any sort of overarching plan. He is simply acting from pure emotion, and expecting things to somehow work out for him as usual.

2) He still possess some coherence, and still has control over his particular brand of low cunning. He doesn't really like the consequences that come from being President, although he loves the attention. He wants to lose the 2020 election and take over and run OAN as a combination Roger Ailes/Vince McMahon. He will leave office with a lot of theatrics and rhetoric, but no actual resistance. Lots of fussing about cheating and stolen elections, he will refuse to attend Biden's inauguration, but he will go. Meanwhile Don Jr. has been buying up OAN stock for Trump to step in as the figurehead, and steal Fox News viewship out from under them. Trump hopes to cash in on his cult for the rest of his life, and trust that Biden would rather go back to normality rather then actually holding him accountable.

[Jotaux]

You guys don't see what's happening? Trump is just playing the long game so Mexico pays for the wall.

[RadasNoir]

He still possess some coherence, and still has control over his particular brand of low cunning. He doesn't really like the consequences that come from being President, although he loves the attention. He wants to lose the 2020 election and take over and run OAN as a combination Roger Ailes/Vince McMahon. He will leave office with a lot of theatrics and rhetoric, but no actual resistance. Lots of fussing about cheating and stolen elections, he will refuse to attend Biden's inauguration, but he will go. Meanwhile Don Jr. has been buying up OAN stock for Trump to step in as the figurehead, and steal Fox News viewship out from under them. Trump hopes to cash in on his cult for the rest of his life, and trust that Biden would rather go back to normality rather then actually holding him accountable.

This is still the "best case scenario" that I am hoping-against-hope will actually happen. That he's enough of a baby, he's tired of being scolded by everyone, and wants to go back to just trumpeting his opinions with less repercussion.

But I'm worried that Antiganon might actually be right, and if he is a big baby, he throws the mother of all tantrums when he doesn't get reelected. Or even if he doesn't contest the election himself, what certain elements of the GOP or his rabid supporters may end up trying to do instead.

[For_The_Horde]

I think there is two possibilities for Trump's current "Strategy" for reelection:

1) There is no actual strategy, it is clear he is calling the shots personally, and he is simply not coherent enough to have any sort of overarching plan. He is simply acting from pure emotion, and expecting things to somehow work out for him as usual.

2) He still possess some coherence, and still has control over his particular brand of low cunning. He doesn't really like the consequences that come from being President, although he loves the attention. He wants to lose the 2020 election and take over and run OAN as a combination Roger Ailes/Vince McMahon. He will leave office with a lot of theatrics and rhetoric, but no actual resistance. Lots of fussing about cheating and stolen elections, he will refuse to attend Biden's inauguration, but he will go. Meanwhile Don Jr. has been buying up OAN stock for Trump to step in as the figurehead, and steal Fox News viewship out from under them. Trump hopes to cash in on his cult for the rest of his life, and trust that Biden would rather go back to normality rather then actually holding him accountable.

3) He loses the electoral vote, but disputes the swing states with (fictional) voter fraud issues and demands investigations. Republican controlled swing states can agree and hold up electors from being chosen, essentially removing those states from the election. If enough states do this, then neither Trump or Biden will have the clear majority threshhold needed to be elected President. At this point, the Twelfth Amendment comes into play, and Trump has a narrow path to being elected (by republicans in the house, not the people) President for another 4 years. Its a crazy longshot plan, that literally bypasses the electoral process and throws everyone's votes right in the garbage, and would lead to mass riots and possibly a civil war, but can you really say at this point that they're not willing to do it anyway?

[Thekri]

3) He loses the electoral vote, but disputes the swing states with (fictional) voter fraud issues and demands investigations. Republican controlled swing states can agree and hold up electors from being chosen, essentially removing those states from the election. If enough states do this, then neither Trump or Biden will have the clear majority threshhold needed to be elected President. At this point, the Twelfth Amendment comes into play, and Trump has a narrow path to being elected (by republicans in the house, not the people) President for another 4 years. Its a crazy longshot plan, that literally bypasses the electoral process and throws everyone's votes right in the garbage, and would lead to mass riots and possibly a civil war, but can you really say at this point that they're not willing to do it anyway?

Well the democrats control the house, so I am not sure there is any chance at all for Trump to win there. After all, the House voted to impeach him, I don't know why they would vote to reelect him.

The twelfth amendment has a bizarre voting process that I think is unique though, where the house votes by states, not by individual members. I have no idea how much that changes the outcome, I have never seen any analysis on who controls the majority of states in the house. I suspect it might be Republicans, but I am not sure of that.

Anyway, I find that sort of full blown constitutional crisis unlikely, but not impossible. Earlier this year I thought it would be a lot more likely, but right now Trump just doesn't have the backing of enough of government to pull it off. The entire administration increasingly relies on the micromanagement of White House staff, and something like this requires a lot more effort to pull off. There is also a reasonable chance that the vote in November won't be close at all, and such efforts will be impossible from the pure scale of it.

edit: Found the answer. The Democrats have 23 state majorities and the Republicans have 26. Honestly not sure which state is tied. So it would be possible, but I find it highly unlikely Trump could get away with such a "Re-election" without a revolution.

[Antiganon]

The twelfth amendment has a bizarre voting process that I think is unique though, where the house votes by states, not by individual members. I have no idea how much that changes the outcome, I have never seen any analysis on who controls the majority of states in the house. I suspect it might be Republicans, but I am not sure of that.

edit: Found the answer. The Democrats have 23 state majorities and the Republicans have 26. Honestly not sure which state is tied. So it would be possible, but I find it highly unlikely Trump could get away with such a "Re-election" without a revolution.

Michigan is tied if you count Amash with the Republicans, though I wouldn't, as while his policy platform is still very much Republican/Libertarian, he voted in favor of impeachment.

[Gorsameth]

3) He loses the electoral vote, but disputes the swing states with (fictional) voter fraud issues and demands investigations. Republican controlled swing states can agree and hold up electors from being chosen, essentially removing those states from the election. If enough states do this, then neither Trump or Biden will have the clear majority threshhold needed to be elected President. At this point, the Twelfth Amendment comes into play, and Trump has a narrow path to being elected (by republicans in the house, not the people) President for another 4 years. Its a crazy longshot plan, that literally bypasses the electoral process and throws everyone's votes right in the garbage, and would lead to mass riots and possibly a civil war, but can you really say at this point that they're not willing to do it anyway?

Wouldn't this get destroyed by the Supreme Court making a ruling about the contested states?
The 12th amendment is about an actual lack of majority, not about states deciding they didn't hold an election this time around.

[Drutt]

I think there is two possibilities for Trump's current "Strategy" for reelection:

1) There is no actual strategy, it is clear he is calling the shots personally, and he is simply not coherent enough to have any sort of overarching plan. He is simply acting from pure emotion, and expecting things to somehow work out for him as usual.

It's this. He's a textbook narcissist who thinks he knows more than everyone else.

He will not go quietly when he loses. I fully expect something along the lines of "STOLEN ELECTION!!!!! 2ND AMENDMENT PEOPLE, DO SOMETHING!!!!!", though I fervently hope to be wrong.

[DarkTZeratul]

My favorite part of that article from 2016 is the part at the end where Trump was going to be releasing substantial evidence that the women's claim was false very soon.

...any day now...

Someone recently pointed out that if Trump says something is happening either "very soon" or "within two weeks," what he really means is he has no plan and he's talking entirely out of his ass.

[kaelleria]

Some food for thought...

Democrats are up an average of 8.8 points in the Generic ballot... At this point in time in 2018, Democrats were up 7.5%. In order for Republicans to take back the House they'd need to be a hell of a lot closer than the condition that brought us the 40+ blue pickups. If Republicans don't have the house, no amount of fuckery Trump tries to do to invalidate the election results would result in him staying in office.

[cubby]

Some food for thought...

Democrats are up an average of 8.8 points in the Generic ballot... At this point in time in 2018, Democrats were up 7.5%. In order for Republicans to take back the House they'd need to be a hell of a lot closer than the condition that brought us the 40+ blue pickups. If Republicans don't have the house, no amount of fuckery Trump tries to do to invalidate the election results would result in him staying in office.

Are you talking about the situation that would arise if neither candidate received 270 electoral votes? Because if so, you should review that process, because it's NOT a House majority vote for President. It's each state gets one vote.

EDIT: hope that didn't come off as snarky, didn't mean for it if it did.