Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Paranoid Android]

BREAKING: Hong Kong's pro-Beijing government, citing coronavirus, postpones elections; pro-democracy opposition cries foul.

Oh this is magic. I can't wait for the US State Department and Trump himself comment on Hong Kong not being able to hold an election.

[SirBeef]

He was crowdsourcing ideas from his rich buddies on Facebook - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...acebook-127941

Great plan. Bigly.

Exactly. Nothing if value to everyday citizens.just more grift. All they ever do.

[Breccia]

The Trump Shuffle continues.

So as Trump is mobilizing his brown shirts, including ICE, to grab citizens in unmarked vehicles without reading them their rights, the next most logical step is, of course, the department of ICE to have nobody at the helm. And that's due to happen come Labor Day.

"When reached for comment, what did the head of ICE have to say?"

He said "I don't exist." The acting head of ICE is Albence. He's the one due to depart.

"Okay, what about the head of ICE before him?"

Oh, he didn't exist either. Albence replaced acting head Morgan.

"What about the head before him?"

Oddly enough, it was Albence again, starting April 2019.

"Before him?"

Vitello. Also acting, from June 2018.

"Before him?"

Homan. Also acting.

"Before him?"

Ragsdale. Also acting. Lasted ten days. And he started Jan 20 -- yes, Trump had an acting head of ICE before doing anything else except his inauguration before taking the first weekend off. Ten days later, Trump fired Yates, demoted Ragsdale, who stayed for four months before joining one of the largest private prison companies on the motherfucking planet, GEO Group.

"Sounds familiar."

It should. Not only did they just lose a multiplayer match with Trump against California involving a massive no-bid federal contract that landed in their laps, they also have been called out for incompetence for spreading the lethal outbreak amongst their prisoners who I'm just going to assume are mostly minorities and not bother researching to see if I'm right.

To the best of my knowledge, Trump has never had anyeone at the head of ICE. It has always been acting. Please, if I'm wrong, show me -- near as I can tell we've had a chain of acting heads since Jan 20, 2017. Trump has made immigration crackdown one of his biggest dog whistle promises and can't keep anyone at the helm long enough to make them an actual department head, even though he had two people last over a year which you'd think would be a vote of confidence. Could field a half-decent inter-office basketball team, though.

So there you have it. Despite all his big promises while campaigning, his massive hiring of border guards by lowering standards, and the Wall itself, Trump has never actually had a permanent head of ICE. It's always been a hired goon with no accountability and no oversight. I do like the image of the current guy fleeing just before the election, though. Maybe Albence (who seemed to be a lifer until this article), hardliner though he may be, looked at ICE bring used to gas civilians and round them up said "I might put brown children in dog cages until they die, but I draw the line at literal Nazi-dom"?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh this is magic.

Expected move from China, but the timing couldn't be better. Not only has every single person in Washington except Trump, Barr and Pompeo come out against moving the US election, now that China's moving their own, Trump can't. Or else Biden -- and everyone else, such as debate moderators and FOX News -- can say "We are the USA, not China"

- - - Updated - - -

Records. Records. Broken records.

U.S. records nearly 25,000 coronavirus deaths in July

U.S. coronavirus deaths rose by almost 25,000 in July and cases doubled in at least 18 states during the month, according to a Reuters tally, dealing a crushing blow to hopes of quickly reopening the economy.

The United States has recorded nearly 1.8 million new cases in July out of its total 4.5 million infections, an increase of 66% with many states yet to report on Friday. Deaths in July rose at least 19% to over 152,000 total.

The biggest increases were in Florida, with over 300,000 new cases in July, followed by California and Texas with about 250,000 each. Those three states also saw cases double in June.

Cases also more than doubled in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and West Virginia, according to the tally.

Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York had the lowest increases, with cases rising 7% or less.

The United States shattered single day global records in July by reporting over 77,000 new cases on July 16. During the month, 33 out of 50 states had one-day record increases in cases and 19 set records for how much deaths rose in 24 hours, according to a Reuters tally.

The news follows the massive Q2 GDP loss, which in a single quarter put the US back into 2017 territory.

The only silver lining is, as @Benggaul has been kind enough to inform us, cases seem to be stabilizing which means in a week or so deaths will hopefully also level off. The economy should also see a partial recovery -- but expect 2020 to lose about 6.5% GDP and unemployment to remain the highest in five years.

(expands chart)

Ten years.

(expands chart)

Twenty-five years.

(expands chart)

Since Reagan chased Carter out of office.

[Gorsameth]

Are cases stabling or are numbers getting fudged?

Is it simple coincidence that numbers start to stabilise after the WH took over data collection?
Considering its Trump I'm inclined to go with it not being a coincidence...

[Elegiac]

I have to say, seeing Ammon Bundy come out against police overreach is a level of ideological consistency I didn't believe existed on the right anymore but...

Yeehaw, I guess. Takes all kinds to make a revolution.

[Breccia]

Are cases stabling or are numbers getting fudged?

I honestly want to say the first. I would like to say Florida tried to suppress the numbers for a while, failed miserably and gave up.

But I don't think I can. Even now, we're all seeing the Flu Klux Klan saying "lol derp Cain died of cancer". It would not be too difficult to slide a few deaths into things like pneumonia if you, for example, wanted schools to open -- which is as counterintuitively suicidal as it sounds.

So instead, I'll say "the number are mostly correct" and what we're seeing is bad enough. Are the real cases and deaths higher? Maybe a few percent, but I don't think the 20% or so increase needed to say total cases are going up.

Alternatively, you could say "the numbers were always fudged, so the fudged numbers going down mean the real ones are too".

But I'm not the expert. I'll cede the floor to someone who has better evidence than one CDC page and weeks of reports with no proof of false reporting.

- - - Updated - - -

I have to say, seeing Ammon Bundy come out against police overreach is a level of ideological consistency I didn't believe existed on the right anymore

It's all fun and games until one of your friends gets shot and killed and the video of him bleeding out in the snow goes viral and the death is called 100% justified.

- - - Updated - - -

TheHill (and likely others) posts an interesting unrelated three headline mix:

1) The CDC director says it wasn't his call to re-route hospital data. Said so under oath.

2) Fuck Florida's acting governor DeSantis says Fuck Florida will be ready to have elections in November. Claimed he didn't see Trump's tweet (eyeroll) and that Fuck Florida will have the lethal outbreak under control by November, just you wait and see.

3) Twitter bans David Duke for life.

[Edge-]

I have to say, seeing Ammon Bundy come out against police overreach is a level of ideological consistency I didn't believe existed on the right anymore but...

Yeehaw, I guess. Takes all kinds to make a revolution.

Believe it or not, it's the nutters that are often the most consistent in their nuttery.

In unrelated news, has anyone seen that Maxwell stuff yet? Apparently Dershowitz was raping little girls as well? So we have a pedophile rapist defending another pedophile rapist, who was also on the impeachment defense team for a President of the United States of America who has bragged about peeping into the dressing rooms of under-age girls.

[solinari6]

Believe it or not, it's the nutters that are often the most consistent in their nuttery.

In unrelated news, has anyone seen that Maxwell stuff yet? Apparently Dershowitz was raping little girls as well? So we have a pedophile rapist defending another pedophile rapist, who was also on the impeachment defense team for a President of the United States of America who has bragged about peeping into the dressing rooms of under-age girls.

He certainly looks and acts guilty as hell, but apparently:

In 2016, former attorneys for Giuffre previously said it was a “mistake” to have accused Dershowitz of sexual misconduct.

so I dunno. Maybe her lawyers were fucking her over?

[PhaelixWW]

I honestly want to say the first. I would like to say Florida tried to suppress the numbers for a while, failed miserably and gave up.

But I don't think I can. Even now, we're all seeing the Flu Klux Klan saying "lol derp Cain died of cancer". It would not be too difficult to slide a few deaths into things like pneumonia if you, for example, wanted schools to open -- which is as counterintuitively suicidal as it sounds.

So instead, I'll say "the number are mostly correct" and what we're seeing is bad enough. Are the real cases and deaths higher? Maybe a few percent, but I don't think the 20% or so increase needed to say total cases are going up.

Alternatively, you could say "the numbers were always fudged, so the fudged numbers going down mean the real ones are too".

But I'm not the expert. I'll cede the floor to someone who has better evidence than one CDC page and weeks of reports with no proof of false reporting.

The data that everyone looks at never really came from the CDC anyway. The CDC's data lagged behind by weeks, but that's because they got the full data on a death (including death certificate data, etc.) and tabulated their own total. The data that we actually look at, though, comes to us courtesy of the states (and more often the individual counties in those states) reporting their own abstract totals, without personal information.

There's not a lot they can do to fudge case count numbers, regardless. So those should be accurate. Death data can be obfuscated, but it would have to be done at the county ME office level. So unless a state is so far gone (...Fuck Florida...) as to issue orders to its ME offices to discount certain deaths that should be attributed to COVID, then those numbers should be somewhat accurate, too. That being said, there are plenty of cases where undercounting occurs simply because the person died without being tested, died in their own home, etc. That type of underreporting is likely to be fairly consistent throughout, however.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-trump-floated

China delaying Hong Kong election: Bad.

Trump threatening to illegally delay the US election: Good!

Fuck these people so much.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-trump-floated

China delaying Hong Kong election: Bad.

Trump threatening to illegally delay the US election: Good!

Fuck these people so much.

And then you get the people who think both of these are bad but still somehow think Bolivia delaying it(again) is a good thing.

[Benggaul]

Are cases stabling or are numbers getting fudged?

Is it simple coincidence that numbers start to stabilise after the WH took over data collection?
Considering its Trump I'm inclined to go with it not being a coincidence...

When it comes to Florida (and Nebraska, I think--but the population density there is so low I don't think they'll ever be in comparable danger), we'll never know. However as I've mentioned before, the numbers I'm posting here don't come from Trump's administration, they come direct from the states and counties themselves. Hospitals may have been ordered to send data elsewhere instead of somewhere reliable, but they have also been sending it daily to the local government which posts it on their local websites/dashboards without any orange fingers having a go at it.

What we've been seeing since the 15th seems to still be accurate, or at least as accurate as it's ever been. There were no sudden suspicious falls in cases/deaths. It really does seem as if the initial outbreak has at least plateaued--but we're still seeing cases increase in neighboring states as expected.

Florida set another record today. 256 deaths reported. It's almost as if EVERYONE said this was going to happen...

[kaid]

When it comes to Florida (and Nebraska, I think--but the population density there is so low I don't think they'll ever be in comparable danger), we'll never know. However as I've mentioned before, the numbers I'm posting here don't come from Trump's administration, they come direct from the states and counties themselves. Hospitals may have been ordered to send data elsewhere instead of somewhere reliable, but they have also been sending it daily to the local government which posts it on their local websites/dashboards without any orange fingers having a go at it.

What we've been seeing since the 15th seems to still be accurate, or at least as accurate as it's ever been. There were no sudden suspicious falls in cases/deaths. It really does seem as if the initial outbreak has at least plateaued--but we're still seeing cases increase in neighboring states as expected.

Florida set another record today. 256 deaths reported. It's almost as if EVERYONE said this was going to happen...

I would not be shocked at it plateauing even without govt intervention people watch the news and if it does not seem safe they start acting accordingly and locking down their own activities enough that it starts to have an impact. Probably they go the way of new york and sit at the plateau for a few weeks to a month and then start coming back down.

[Paranoid Android]

Are cases stabling or are numbers getting fudged?

Is it simple coincidence that numbers start to stabilise after the WH took over data collection?
Considering its Trump I'm inclined to go with it not being a coincidence...

No doubt. Trump and the White House had the numbers come directly to them. I can't believe @Breccia believes these numbers are legit.

[Benggaul]

No doubt. Trump and the White House had the numbers come directly to them. I can't believe @Breccia believes these numbers are legit.

See above. The numbers we're talking about here aren't coming from Trump's admin. They are coming from the hospitals via state/county reporting.

[Edge-]

Reminder McConnell has been sitting on the Dem plan for 2 fucking months and is now scrambling to get one done.

Why does this sound so familiar...OH RIGHT, it's exactly like how the GOP spent 8+ years whinging and moaning and pathetically trying to pass "Repeal and Replace" to get rid of the ACA, and when they finally had their chance they had spent the prior 8+ years doing nothing and put together an awful plan that they couldn't even pass (thanks McCain).

Also, not terribly unlike the Trump/GOP tax cut that was so rushed you had barely legible notes and edits in the margin written by multiple different people, passed before anyone even had the time to read it.

The Republican party is a fucking threat to this country. They are incapable of serious or honest governance.

[Twdft]

He was crowdsourcing ideas from his rich buddies on Facebook - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...acebook-127941

Great plan. Bigly.

Did they actually burn the pandemic playbook a former administration left on the resolute desk? Just take a look into that instead of asking fucking facebook.

[Ursus]

Louie Gohmert says he is taking hydroxychloroquine to help with his COVID. I wonder if he is being treated by Dr. Stella Immanuel.

[Edge-]

Did they actually burn the pandemic playbook a former administration left on the resolute desk? Just take a look into that instead of asking fucking facebook.

No, but it came from Obama and everything related to Obama is bad and can't be used so that he can take any credit away from Trump.

More realistically, given the reporting that almost every staffer that was included in the practice scenario on responding to a pandemic that the Obama team gave them as the administration was coming in had either been fired or resigned by that point, and the administration is an utter shitshow, they more likely forgot that it existed until media and former Obama officials reminded the general public.

That's why we saw the "Our plan is bigger than their plan" -

"Some have erroneously suggested that the Trump administration threw out the pandemic response playbook left by the Obama-Biden administration," McEnany said, holding up a packet of papers. "What the critics failed to note, however, is that this thin packet of paper was replaced by two detailed, robust pandemic response reports commissioned by the Trump administration."

They had a girthier plan, and size matters.

[Benggaul]

Louie Gohmert says he is taking hydroxychloroquine to help with his COVID. I wonder if he is being treated by Dr. Stella Immanuel.

He would say he's taking it whether or not he's actually taking it because he's a Trump sycophant.