Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Felya]

I didn't;t say it means he's against the troops because he dodged the war. But knowing he dodged and knowing his view on things it is very likely he sees someone who didn't;t dodge it as a sucker.

A better example would be hiding the soldiers that suffered injuries, as a result of Iran retaliating for Trump bombing their general. Maybe ignoring US intelligence about Taliban bounty on US soldiers, instead inviting them to Camp David...

[Thekri]

If you and others in this thread want to believe these allegations, which haven’t been proven, that’s on you.

Would I be shocked if he said it? No. An article claiming that “according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day”, to me, isn’t enough to believe it indeed happened.

I prefer facts and credible proof.

Not sure what point you are making here. Everyone is saying the same thing. This isn't definite proof he said it, but it is most certainly in character, it fits everything we know about Trump, and it is very likely that he said it.

It is like if my kid told me the dog barked at a squirrel. Yeah, it is only one eyewitness. No, a four year old isn't the most reliable witness. But barking at squirrels is extremely in character for the dog, and it is very likely that it actually happened. The corollary to "Extraordinary Claims require extraordinary evidence" is that "Mundane claims require very little evidence".

[Felya]

The first time the broken clock was right.

Is this the first time you are celebrating rich people getting out of service they send everyone else on? Yeah, McCain should have pulled a Trump and got his rich daddy to send some other fuck in his place.

[Thekri]

A better example would be hiding the soldiers that suffered injuries, as a result of Iran retaliating for Trump bombing their general. Maybe ignoring US intelligence about Taliban bounty on US soldiers, instead inviting them to Camp David...

Yeah, both of those things were nothing burgers. The inviting the Taliban to the US was really shitty, but it has no relation to the bounties (They were actively fighting us, the bounty thing is a reflection on Russia, not the Taliban).

The betrayal of US allies in Syria is a really big deal. The turning over US bases to Russia is a big deal. Using US Soldiers to guard illegally seized oil wells is a big deal. Dragging the active military into civil unrest is a REALLY BIG DEAL.

Focus on the things that matter, not the media outrages.

[JohnBrown1917]

Is this the first time you are celebrating rich people getting out of service they send everyone else on? Yeah, McCain should have pulled a Trump and got his rich daddy to send some other fuck in his place.

I don't care trump dodged the services, its not about him, it was on a comment on McCain.


Why do you always trouble reading what I write?

[downnola]

I don't care trump dodged the services, its not about him, it was on a comment on McCain.


Why do you always trouble reading what I write?

He's actually reading between the lines, something I greatly enjoy from his posts.

[JohnBrown1917]

He's actually reading between the lines, something I greatly enjoy from his posts.

That is a funny way of making up strawmen.
You all get so salty whenever your beloved McCain gets shat on.

[Felya]

Yeah, both of those things were nothing burgers. The inviting the Taliban to the US was really shitty, but it has no relation to the bounties (They were actively fighting us, the bounty thing is a reflection on Russia, not the Taliban).

The relationship is that they were killing American soldiers, to an extent that Russia could pay them, while being invited to Naval Support Facility Thurmont.

[downnola]

That is a funny way of making up strawmen.

Normally I'd agree, but you often pick some stupid hills to die on.

[JohnBrown1917]

Normally I'd agree, but you often pick some stupid hills to die on.

So saying McCain is not a war hero for what he did in Vietnam is a "stupid hill"? How much do liberals love McCain now?

[Felya]

I don't care trump dodged the services, its not about him, it was on a comment on McCain.

Yeah, which is why I asked if this is the first time you are celebrating rich people getting out of war. Because McCain could have done that, Trump did do that, and some other asshole went to war in Trump’s place. What you are actually celebrating here, is people like Trump, who didn’t protest or fight for peace, but got their rich daddy to fix it all.

Why do you always trouble reading what I write?

I have no trouble reading what you said. I don’t think you think what you say through... like ever... sorry... if nothing else, I don’t think it’s malicious...

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You all get so salty whenever your beloved McCain gets shat on.

No, I get salty for people getting shit on, without merit and with obvious repercussions that harm the very ideology you abide by. I really don’t have a problem with people I disagree with being wrong, it’s par for the course... but... people I generally agree with being wrong, is fucking annoying. It makes my points harder to explain, when people agreeing just react to names. McCain going to war, just like every working class asshole, is not the part about McCain that’s contemptuous, but it is a means to write off every other claim that might be legitimate, as the same bullshit as being pissed that McCain didn’t have his daddy pay his way out.

To quote someone pointing out me doing similar:

Focus on the things that matter, not the media outrages.

[Thekri]

Is this the first time you are celebrating rich people getting out of service they send everyone else on?

America has two types of Aristocracy. McCain was from one of those class. That is a class of Aristocrats that sees themselves as responsible for the nation they live in. They serve in its wars (As Officers, of course) and then they go into government. Their entire life revolves around serving/running government. The currencies of these families is power, respect, and ultimately, legacy. The later is the most important thing in their life. They are "Old Money" families, steeped in tradition and family histories of power and privilege. The McCain family is one, the Kennedy Family is one, The Bush Family is one, the Abrams family is one, and there are many other less prestigious ones. Arguably even the Bidens are one, although the legacy isn't as old.

There a couple factors that are universal in these families, and the McCains exemplify them. Military service is one, almost always one specific branch, where members of that family have served for generations (Navy in their case). Enormous pressure to perform is another one. There is obviously nepotism involved, but it is a different sort. These kids face staggering pressures to excel. They are expected to be the absolute best at everything, and do it legitimately. Think "Tiger Moms" to an even more insane degree. I served with the sons of several generals, and while they had enormous advantages in education, position, and upbringing, the expectations were so stupidly high they were all struggling with self image issues, because they all felt they were one B+ grade away from disgracing their family name.

The other type of American Aristocrat is the "Noveu Riche" type. All money, no class, no legacy. Kids are supposed to be pretty, vapid, and empty. Frequently these families struggle with massive self image issues, because the first type will always look down on them. They desperately want the respect that the older families have, and they tend to loath each other. Their children get into inflated positions purely on nepotism, and they have absolutely no incentive to perform. They were simply born better then everyone else, because they were born richer. They are insufferable asses, and they never appear in the military, but occasionally appear in Politics.

I am not sure Trump truly belongs to either class. He is stuck in the middle. Fred Trump desperately tried to create a new family in the first class, and Trump fucked it up spectacularly. These leaves Trump stuck in the middle of the two classes of American aristocracy, craving the respect of either or both, but is an absolute laughing stock of both. Hence his disdain for all the aforementioned type 1 families. He loathes them because they do not respect him, and they look down on him.

[Felya]

So saying McCain is not a war hero for what he did in Vietnam is a "stupid hill"? How much do liberals love McCain now?

How about the why?

"He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

Your hill is Trump’s idiotic comments.

[Thekri]

So saying McCain is not a war hero for what he did in Vietnam is a "stupid hill"? How much do liberals love McCain now?

Are you familiar with exactly why McCain is called a War Hero? It wasn't for being good at killing people. It is because he put the needs of his fellow sailors ahead of his own, and refused to accept special priviledges that were offered to him because he was the son of an Admiral. The North Vietnamese were willing to move him to the front of the line for prisoner exchanges, and end his suffering and torture, allowing him to go home. He refused, and stayed to allow others to go home before him.

The North Vietnamese were attempting to show that in American society, the rich always got special privileges, and valued the lifes of the elite over those of the common man. McCain refused. His Father was in command of all US Forces in the Vietnam theater, but he refused to accept a single thing his fellow prisoners didn't have access too. He suffered greatly for those principles, being crippled for life by the experience. He was never able to raise his arms above his shoulders again, and remained in pain the rest of his life.

McCain was not necessarily a great person. You can legitimately dislike his politics. You can dislike his loyalty to his his first wife (He stayed loyal to the second one for over 50 years though). But calling him not a war hero is a tough position to defend. The man took a stand for a noble cause, and suffered horribly for it. He is a man I greatly respect for his character, even though I don't care for all his politics.

[Gelannerai]

Are you familiar with exactly why McCain is called a War Hero? It wasn't for being good at killing people. It is because he put the needs of his fellow sailors ahead of his own, and refused to accept special priviledges that were offered to him because he was the son of an Admiral. The North Vietnamese were willing to move him to the front of the line for prisoner exchanges, and end his suffering and torture, allowing him to go home. He refused, and stayed to allow others to go home before him.

The North Vietnamese were attempting to show that in American society, the rich always got special privileges, and valued the lifes of the elite over those of the common man. McCain refused. His Father was in command of all US Forces in the Vietnam theater, but he refused to accept a single thing his fellow prisoners didn't have access too. He suffered greatly for those principles, being crippled for life by the experience. He was never able to raise his arms above his shoulders again, and remained in pain the rest of his life.

McCain was not necessarily a great person. You can legitimately dislike his politics. You can dislike his loyalty to his his first wife (He stayed loyal to the second one for over 50 years though). But calling him not a war hero is a tough position to defend. The man took a stand for a noble cause, and suffered horribly for it. He is a man I greatly respect for his character, even though I don't care for all his politics.

This. There are plenty of reasons to disagree with McCain or to claim that some of his actions were downright shitty. His military record and experiences/actions during his time as a POW aren’t among those.

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I loathe Trump, but I honestly don’t believe he said this—he’s always been a big supporter of the military and the troops.

I prefer facts and credible proof.

These two posts contradict each other. Can you provide facts and credible proof to support your claim that Trump has always been a big supporter of the military and the troops? Trump simply saying that he supports the troops doesn’t fall into either of those categories.

[Dontrike]

he’s always been a big supporter of the military and the troops.

Is he though? Insulting McCain's service and him being captured, multiple military families he's insulted in various ways insulting one that testified against him which lead to the Ukraine investigations and getting him impeached.

[Breccia]

I’m pretty unhappy with you, Mr. Trump. So I’m going to keep this short for your famous short attention span. You have shown disrespect to the military on countless occasions. I am stunned that anybody in the United States military would consider you anything but a ‘loser’ or a ‘sucker.’ You’re no patriot.

Our Army, our Navy, our Marine Corps, our Air Force, our Coast Guard. Brave men and women. They’re not just brave. They’re smart and wise. So, Mr. Trump, come Nov. 3, we’re all voting for a real patriot — Joe Biden. And everybody who hears this, please take notice and please vote. Vote Democratic. Our country’s honor depends on it.

-- Retired U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton

Wanna see the video?

[Edge-]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/5706859002/

Trump is apparently (looking for more confirmation on this) going to dissolve Stars and Stripes. I can't say I have an affinity for the news outlet, but I have worked with some of their writers in the past and they've always been nice peoples.

Guess this is one of the many attacks against the military, and services aimed at active duty and former military, from the Trump administration.

[Odinfrost]

I’m pretty bla bla bla, Mr. Trump. So I’m going to keep this short bla bla bla bla bla bla. Bla bla bla blarespect to the military on countless occasions. I am bla bla bla bla bla United States military would consider you bla bla a ‘bla’ bla bla ‘bla.’ Bla bla patriot.

Our Army, our Navy, our Marine Corps, our Air Force, our Coast Guard. Brave men and "static sounds". Bla bla bla bla. Bla smart and wise. So, Mr. Trump, come Nov. 3, we’re all voting for a real patriot — "static sounds".

- What Trump heard... probably, if he saw the video. And yes, he would not have heard of the plane crash story at all either.

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/5706859002/

Trump is apparently (looking for more confirmation on this) going to dissolve Stars and Stripes. I can't say I have an affinity for the news outlet, but I have worked with some of their writers in the past and they've always been nice peoples.

Guess this is one of the many attacks against the military, and services aimed at active duty and former military, from the Trump administration.

That is so weird... Trump loves the millitary and everything involved with it.

[Adam Jensen]

So saying McCain is not a war hero for what he did in Vietnam is a "stupid hill"? How much do liberals love McCain now?

You do realize we can respect a man for one thing and disrespect that same man for something else right?