Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[silveth]

So when the GOP broke the rules to benefit themselves in 2016 you were sad about it, but now that they are upholding the rules they broke last time, because upholding those rules benefits themselves this time, you are fine with it?

No honestly I am as annoyed now as I was back then because of back then. I stated my disagreements with it when it happened and got into a bunch of arguments with people about it. I have gotten into arguments now with people about it because, while I agree its fully legal and fine for them to do with in the rules of congress, its just a crappy move after what they did back then. I know that even if they went through the hearings and such that Obama's pick would not have been approved, but I still believe they should have done it.

I honestly think that the government is messed up to the extreme at this point. BOTH Democrats and Republican are to blame.

The presidents have been allowed over the last 100+ years to become too powerful. I said it for Bush, Obama, and Trump. All these executive orders that basicaly make or change laws are wrong from both sides. Congress should be making laws that the president then executes. It should not be the presidents right to change them on the fly. You want to change or add a law, convince the people to be behind it so they force Congress to do it. The Supreme Court has also become too powerful. They should not be making or changing laws with rulings. That's Congress's job. By design, the Supreme court was suppose to be the weakest branch but they also have been allowed to gather power. Overall the Federal government has grown to be to BIG, added in so many pieces that were not part of the original ideas behind what it should handle that is can't seem to function well on anything. States and local areas should have more control over their government because ONE size does not always fit all equally as long as control fits within the federal laws (On the other side States/Cities should also not be allowed to ignore Federal laws either. That is also a problem). I don't see either side fixing the government anytime soon because the answer is always more government, which makes things worse.

[Flower Milk]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rump-bill-barr

I live in Portland, I am an anarchist, and the vast majority of people here are not. This is horse shit.

I hope my state stops paying federal taxes and closes ports of entry over this, we're just an anarchist state now guys so sorry.

[Felya]

I live in Portland, I am an anarchist, and the vast majority of people here are not. This is horse shit.

I’m in Seattle... as I said in the thread on the subject... If NYC and Seattle keeps our federal taxes, we can live in paradise, instead of funding states that fight against our policy. We love Portland... we got your back...

[Bodakane]

Aye she would have been good, but being honest politicaly in other areas she was to left yet for america, I can understand ofc alot of you guys want to have what Europe has as far as the socialist aspects of our societys, anything from the UK models to the Nordic models and as some one who's just had his hand rebuilt by the NHS after a cricket accident for free I can fully understand why.

But the lesson of Obama care should be that basically elections aren't really a vehicle for permanent change, unless its come as a result of social education on issues, the republicans will continue to hold policy's anti health care for as long as that is a vote winner for them, and as such will roll back what ever the demo do when the political wind eventually changes as it always does, the trick to lasting change is to make it like it in the UK where even the idea of private health care is so disgusting an idea to the general public no party will stand on that platform, and such things only come about from education.

If Americans were taught the truth about European health care models and not just fed constant and debunked lies about the cost, free health care would be as no brainer as the free fire and police services.

Also the tax argument against it is rubbish, its no great source but a guy called Russell wark on a quorate article gave a detailed break down that shows most Americans (depending on state taxes) pay more in tax than an average UK citizen and UK citizens get free health care from there taxes but us citizens then have the additional health insurance costs.

Also need to take the fear the republicans have that doing these things some how makes them socialist or they will suddenly melt or something, the Conservative party in the UK has held power for the longest amount of time of the 2 party's since the 1918 election reforms that gave the working and middle class the vote here and in that time we made the NHS and advanced all these rights, and by there popularity the cons had to adopt them, he'll in some cases like gas marriage they created it,

But thats what happens when a society moves left and the partys and politics react to it rather than political partys trying to drag a society not ready left, our whole political spectrum is left compared to the US. And yea we still had brexit (but that was far more complex than left v right,there were breathers from both sides of the political spectrum for different reasons who wanted out of the eu) and there's still racists and sexists and homophobes the war on them isn't one thats ever going to stop cos there will always be those elements in a society, the key is to just make them such a small amount there not worth a main party pandering to.

But if america wants to catch up to Europe as far as the things we enjoy over here, then it needs to unwind 50ish years of cold War propaganda and start at the grass roots and at the basics, non of the stuff that even Europe finds controversial and we debate, right at the grass roots and educate on the basics, work on getting better workers rights, get better health care, get better investment into poor areas, do some slum clearance and rebuilding, social housing schemes e.t.c

my general take is I see america and all the who ha over there and my immediate thought is all that violence is pointless between the two sides as there trying to run before they can walk on alot of issues.

The lesson the Dems should have learned with the ACA is to stop sitting down at the negotiating table with compromise as their first offer. The right in the US are bad faith actors in any and all negotiations so trying to be adult and lead with the midway point, just allows them to set that mid point as the left's starting point and the real compromise will be halfway between that and what the right wants.

The dems think they are being good, just and above board by doing that and the Repubs just see blood in the water. That's the first chance they got in 2010 they removed ley parts of the ACA that significantly damaged the ability for the people to get lower cost health insurance. Since then they've been chipping away at it until it is a toothless and useless shell.

[Adam Jensen]

Well, these same morons believe that's how Obama became President. It's a vast conspiracy.

Yeah my favorite one is where Obama's mother, back in 1961, has a premonition that her kenyan born muslim son will be President someday, so she convinces the Honolulu newspaper to publish an announcement of a live birth.

[Zaydin]

So the Cook Political Report has updated Electoral College forecasts right now and the results are interesting.

In the Solid, Likely and Lean Democratic column of states, Democrats currently have 290 electoral votes in their column. Republicans have 187 Electoral votes in the Solid, Likely and Lean Republican states.

The Lean Democratic states includes all the states that made up the 'Blue Wall' that Trump narrowly won in 2016 plus Arizona. More alarming for the GOP should be that Texas is rated as 'Lean Republican' instead of "Solid Republican".

The Toss Up states equal 61 electoral votes; Trump would have to win all of them plus 22 Electoral votes from states in the 'Lean Democratic' column in order to win per the CPRs analysis.

Basically, Biden has much more wiggle room in his path to the White House whereas Trump does not.

[Paranoid Android]

Today marks the start of another round of stimulus checks to farmers and ranchers, up to $14 billion in total, as Washington continues flooding the agriculture industry with record levels of taxpayer aid https://t.co/MTy9QxpZKW

https://twitter.com/politico/status/...725194240?s=19

More tax dollars to bribe a group from Trump's massive trade failure.

Not even socialism, it is corruption.

[akris15]

I'd be willing to bet money on Trump getting into a plane heading for Moscow on Jan 19th if he loses.

I honestly would not be surprised if on the 18th he does a mass blanket pardon for himself and everyone associated with his administration then walks out the door and has transportation waiting for him to take him to Russia on the 19th so he is already in Russia if Biden wins. I say this because I am sure somewhere there is a sealed indictment in New York waiting for the moment he isn't president and they will ask for assistance to serve him papers for tax/bank fraud the moment it can be issued.

[Reyuna]

Look at all the little Anti-fa/BLM stormtroopers in this thread

Edge, you're the biggest cunt of the lot.

Infract me

[Thekri]

Look at all the little Anti-fa/BLM stormtroopers in this thread

Let's take a moment to enjoy the sweet, delicious irony of this phrase. "Anti-Fa Stormtroopers". Because of course, historical stormtroopers are remembered for their determined opposition to facist movements! "BLM Stormtroopers" are even better, because fighting for racial justice and harmony are really key to the whole aesthetic of Stormtroopers.

[jonnysensible]

Let's take a moment to enjoy the sweet, delicious irony of this phrase. "Anti-Fa Stormtroopers". Because of course, historical stormtroopers are remembered for their determined opposition to facist movements! "BLM Stormtroopers" are even better, because fighting for racial justice and harmony are really key to the whole aesthetic of Stormtroopers.

i prefer the 'pwease infwact me'

Bedwetter detected

[Breccia]

Trump is not doing a fantastic job of saving coal

Coal is not salvageable. Trump's promises to coal workers were impossible, and I don't know if he knew that ahead of time.

The coal industry is not that big, but hopefully enough of them turn on Trump who flat-out lied to them. McConnell too. I think it this might have been less "Trump wanted coal votes" and more "Trump wants the world back where it was in the good ol' days" where TV ratings matters, goddam steam, and you could be racist with impunity.

[Thekri]

Coal is not salvageable. Trump's promises to coal workers were impossible, and I don't know if he knew that ahead of time.

The coal industry is not that big, but hopefully enough of them turn on Trump who flat-out lied to them. McConnell too. I think it this might have been less "Trump wanted coal votes" and more "Trump wants the world back where it was in the good ol' days" where TV ratings matters, goddam steam, and you could be racist with impunity.

Well yeah, that is the whole point. The idea that coal could be saved is absolute insanity for anyone with the slightest clue about how energy production works. Trump knows almost nothing about any practical subject, so of course he thought he could save coal. The staggering irony of trying to save a dying industry with government intervention, while simultaneously pushing the "small government and lower regulations" angle is a bonus lunacy. GE didn't stop building coal plants to spite Trump, they stopped building them because there is no market for them, and that portion of their business was bleeding money.

[Zaydin]

Look at all the little Anti-fa/BLM stormtroopers in this thread

Edge, you're the biggest cunt of the lot.

Infract me

Antifa literally stands for anti-fascist. The only people who would have reason to hate antifa are fascists themselves. So what does that make you?

[Xyonai]

The QQing of trolls and folks who can't come to grips with the fact that they backed a lying loser aside: The Manhattan district attorney’s office suggested for the first time on Monday that it had grounds to investigate President Trump and his businesses for tax fraud. It's the DA's most detailed disclosure yet about his efforts to obtain Trump's tax returns.

[masterhorus8]

Genuinely long enough that it hits the 2:20 limit on Twitter and still isn't over.

Would recommend scrolling up, too. You'll get to learn that Obama was a Republican!

Normally, I'd just point out that nuclear power is still also steam power, but considering the fact that said steam is then used for electricity... He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on that, lol

[Monster Hunter]

Our gay rights and gay marriage legislation and legalization is one of the hopes I hold onto in regards to the future of the United States. But even then, those rights are just five votes away from being removed (vis a vis the Supreme Court).

Yea, and thats kinda weird as a European to see in another western nation.

Now I'm not american so this is an outsider looking in trying to rationalise it.

One of the things I like to do is look at other nations history of rights struggles and compare them, because there's nations where these rights struggles never happened, there's nations where they failed and resulted in basically genocides,then there's ones where its become a constant battle to just maintain and then there's ones where it just passed by like some formality and even the idea of non legal equality is alien to the majority. And I've always wondered if there's some correlation with the strategy and tactics of each movement, how they happened that correlates with the security of those rights.

The general trend with america is you guys are rarely ever the first and often behind at least a decade or two to those who liberalise first, and in America those rights tend to just come suddenly as a reaction to an event, like the stone wall riots. Which is appose to Britain and the rest of Europe who's history with rights tends more to come after a long time of social debate and discussion. And then when I think more I wonder if that's because of Europe sort of failed history with revolution and revolt, people like to talk about the French revolution and the English civil war but they fail to mention that on the whole they were pretty massive failures and left decades of ruin, he'll when Britain tried being a Republic we hated Cromwell so much we dig his corpse up, behaded it and stuck it on a spike but then he did also ban beer so...

- - - Updated - - -

The lesson the Dems should have learned with the ACA is to stop sitting down at the negotiating table with compromise as their first offer. The right in the US are bad faith actors in any and all negotiations so trying to be adult and lead with the midway point, just allows them to set that mid point as the left's starting point and the real compromise will be halfway between that and what the right wants.

The dems think they are being good, just and above board by doing that and the Repubs just see blood in the water. That's the first chance they got in 2010 they removed ley parts of the ACA that significantly damaged the ability for the people to get lower cost health insurance. Since then they've been chipping away at it until it is a toothless and useless shell.

And thats a huge problem, because any gains made when in power will always be under threat, with a two party system it only takes some event like a bad war or a financial crisis to flip American politics, dosnt even need to be the demo fault its just the fickle nature of democracy.

Alot ofnthe rights and the birth of the NHS in the UK came from a period litteraly known as "the great concensus" where the conservatives and Labour were just litteraly working together almost trading favors and that lasted from the end of ww2 right up to thatcher. Though it could be argued that the concensus started in the late 1800s as it was notnun common for MPs to "cross the floor" and switch parties, there's even a number of cases where the priminister litteral switched to the opposition and even one instance of the PM changing party twice.

The problem to stable change in the US is clearly in my view the extreme partisanship that makes both partys seem to take opposition on seemingly every little issue to the other, and also the very backwards nature of the republican party due to likely a heavy religious influence

If america is to ever make any real change that lasts more than a couple presidential terms something needs to change in the whole situation, but the only way to get the republicans to change is if the way they are now clearly doesn't win votes which it unfortunately still does as it undeniably appeals to enough of the American voting base to currently hold the senate and presidential office, for it to be forced to change it needs to be in the same situation that forced Labour to change in the 80s when it became clear there stances and messages were just leaving them as perpetual opposition.

And for that to happen the only way is via education.

But I dunno i live in a country where the alt right sardonic of akkhad has just out out a video complaining our Conservative party just approved racial bias training for MPs and we still have the odd person like that guy who always has a soc account calling our PM basically trump and basically hittler so God knows.

[Felya]

Normally, I'd just point out that nuclear power is still also steam power, but considering the fact that said steam is then used for electricity... He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on that, lol

This makes me hope that Trump will claim that it’s dark during the day... just so his supporters can claim... what he really meant, is that his head is stuck so far up his own ass...

[Paranoid Android]

Genuinely long enough that it hits the 2:20 limit on Twitter and still isn't over.

Would recommend scrolling up, too. You'll get to learn that Obama was a Republican!

I thought this was an old page I was on. Trump was saying this stupid crap at least 2 yrs ago. Oh also he is back on his invisible jets, aka stealth jet kick again. Well he is bringing out the Classics.

[Benggaul]

36,372, a couple thousand fewer than last Monday.

California: 4,238 new cases; 53 deaths
Texas: 2,713 new cases; 48 deaths
Fuck Florida.
Michigan: 1,575 new cases; 12 deaths
Missouri: 1,514 new cases; 26 deaths
Illinois: 1,477 new cases; 7 deaths
Kansas: 1,410 new cases (new record); 4 deaths
Wisconsin: 1,271 new cases; 2 deaths
Georgia: 1,184 new cases; 2 deaths
Oklahoma: 1,101 new cases; 2 deaths

As with yesterday, it's the weekend tally (cases are reported for the day BEFORE, remember) so there's not much to extrapolate. This was the highest total for Michigan since April--but they don't seem to report on Sundays so this is likely the total for both Sunday and Monday. However even with that in mind it's never been this high for any Sunday/Monday combo for them so that's likely indicative that it's not going well there. Kansas also has a really funky reporting system but this is their highest ever combo total which isn't good for them either. Expect numbers for Wisconsin to be pretty ugly this week. Biden wore a mask during his campaign trip there today and it wasn't just for the looks.

388 deaths reported today is about a hundred fewer than last Sunday so the expected trend continues. 204,506 is the new total. I'm expecting at least a couple of 1k days this week but hopefully we should continue to see the fatalities continue to fall a bit more before leveling out again.

Stay safe, folks.