1. #59801
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post

    He just called neoliberal politics a dogmatic faith that we put too much trust in.....roasted.
    Yeah...but calling other things religions is page one in the handbook of people like that. Creationists do it constantly with evolution.

    He may not be wrong that it's an incredibly stupid system...but you shouldn't need god (or someone pretending to speak on god's behalf) to tell you that.

  2. #59802
    The level of lying from them is just jokes. ‘He’s on steroids to sort the low oxygen issue but he’ll be moving around a lot and back in the White House tomorrow.’ That’s like me saying a few months ago, ‘my Dad just had his leg amputated because of diabetes but he’s running a marathon tomorrow without any issues at all’. Total joke.

  3. #59803
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    The level of lying from them is just jokes.
    They're wrestling with a couple pretty big problems:
    -Admitting that a president is having serious health issues has never been seen as a good idea in the country.
    -Trump's a narcissist who probably wouldn't let them be honest about it even if his administration hadn't spent the better part of a year refusing to take the virus seriously.

  4. #59804
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Days seven and eight. Hmm. Well, seven and eight days from Wednesday or Friday? The WH has been the opposite of clear.
    Likely Wednesday, but even that is odd.

    It normally takes a week for serious symptoms to develop after onset - which is the seven to eight days they mention - (and onset averages 5 days after infection), but it seems he required oxygen on Friday - which would indicate that he had some serious symptoms already then.

  5. #59805
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    So let's talk about Trump's chances.

    They're fucked.

    Yes, the election is five weeks away. But that's the problem, it's only five weeks away.

    1) The election will now be about the coronavirus outbreak. Trump will likely survive and will say "hey look, it doesn't kill everyone, you'll be fine" but that message will not ring true enough. Biden is trusted on most matters, including health care and the outbreak, more than Trump is.

    2) That last jobs report, the final one before the election, shows a slowing recovery. Unemployment is at the minimum 7.9% and could easily be higher due to the special exclusions BLS added for this.

    3) Trump has averaged 7 points behind Biden before the debate and Trump infecting himself, his wife, and half his staff. We're seeing more recent polls widening the gap.

    4) That thing about Burisma hasn't worked yet. It's possible Team Trump is waiting for the right time to conveniently reveal the info Trump blackmailed Ukraine for. It'd have to be amazing at this point.

    5) The SCOTUS vote is being bogged down. And the super spreader event could be the party itself.

    6) Pence, by virtue of not being Trump, can't carry the enthusiasm of the rabid fanbase. I suggested before we might see Pence giving a speech to an empty field, but in retrospect, Team Trump would never let those pictures out. I now think they'll just live stream.

    7) There are two debates left. This topic will come up. Trump might get Nixon'd by appearing at less than peak health...well, peak by Trump standards. But most importantly, he used his one and only "deflect from the issues by chain yelling" card. So not only will he be put on the defensive, he'll be given a fair fight -- the thing a bully and coward hates the most.

  6. #59806
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    6) Pence, by virtue of not being Trump, can't carry the enthusiasm of the rabid fanbase. I suggested before we might see Pence giving a speech to an empty field, but in retrospect, Team Trump would never let those pictures out. I now think they'll just live stream.
    The thing I wonder about are the Lincoln Project Republicans. They'd love a Mike Pence type in the Oval. I wonder if all the inroads with the Rick Wilsons of the world will be lost if they think there's a good chance at President Mike Pence.

    Admittedly, I don't know how well Biden is currently doing in that demo, or how big the demo of disaffected Republicans/Independents is, but it's something to think about.

  7. #59807
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The thing I wonder about are the Lincoln Project Republicans. They'd love a Mike Pence type in the Oval. I wonder if all the inroads with the Rick Wilsons of the world will be lost if they think there's a good chance at President Mike Pence.

    Admittedly, I don't know how well Biden is currently doing in that demo, or how big the demo of disaffected Republicans/Independents is, but it's something to think about.
    I'd like to think they understand that anything related to Trump needs to be burned away... but they are Republicans so I can't count on them to do the right thing.

  8. #59808
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The thing I wonder about are the Lincoln Project Republicans. They'd love a Mike Pence type in the Oval. I wonder if all the inroads with the Rick Wilsons of the world will be lost if they think there's a good chance at President Mike Pence.

    Admittedly, I don't know how well Biden is currently doing in that demo, or how big the demo of disaffected Republicans/Independents is, but it's something to think about.
    I'm not sure this still holds true. Pence has gone right along with everything Trump has done (or said) the past few years with little to no resistance. Pence might have been their guy before this administration--I'm not convinced he still is after being complicit in it.

  9. #59809
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I wonder if all the inroads with the Rick Wilsons of the world will be lost if they think there's a good chance at President Mike Pence.
    There are only a few ways we could see this.

    1) Trump wins, then dies. Doesn't fit the current timeline, but he's old, fat, and sick, it could happen later.

    2) Trump dies or withdraws before the election, and Pence wins. Without Biden dying or, like, proof he murdered someone, I don't think that's realistic. Also I'm not sure Pence could take Harris, either.

    3) The election burns down, there is no winner, and SCOTUS/the House somehow appoint Pence.

    4) Pence decides to run on his own in 2024, somehow gets the TNC nod and wins the election, despite being the basically silent VP during the outbreak and collapse of the economy and the standing of the US worldwide. Most likely option due to current election standing.

    5) Trump manages to get on first base in the American League, swaps out for Pence, and Pompeo hits a home run. This one is tough -- Trump can't run and his strike zone is almost as big as his ass.

    6) And finally, the 25th. We've discussed this over and over. The issue is that the rest of the Team Trump would need to be onboard, requiring them all to turn on Trump in public. Honestly, this could potentially happen if Trump goes full psycho after losing the election, but I doubt it's what the Lincoln Project is looking for. It would attempt to return from the Party of Trump to the Republican Party, but the rabid fanbase won't forgive anyone involved. Ever.

  10. #59810
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    I'd like to think they understand that anything related to Trump needs to be burned away... but they are Republicans so I can't count on them to do the right thing.
    Pence himself they will not support. The driving force behind the Lincoln Project is to reclaim the party from Trump's brand of populism. It isn't really the morals that bothers them, it is the populism. They like the old school aristocratic party, and they revile this amateur's shitshow. They don't like the administration being run by 26 year old conspiracy theorists from Missouri.

    They could have embraced Pence in 2016, but he has drunk WAY too much coolaid for them. They are happy to torch every remnants of the GOP to get rid of it. It is why they turned on Graham, McConnell, Grassley and the rest. Those were all classic Republicans, but they drank Mannaroth's Blood, so now they have to go to get the old Horde back.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  11. #59811
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The thing I wonder about are the Lincoln Project Republicans. They'd love a Mike Pence type in the Oval.
    A "Mike Pence type" maybe, but I seriously doubt Pence himself. As others have said, he's tainted by Trump. Maybe if Trump died/dropped out tomorrow and Pence unequivocally denounced the past 4 years, people like that might get behind him in time for it to make a difference...but then he'd lose Trump's cult.

  12. #59812
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    They're wrestling with a couple pretty big problems:
    -Admitting that a president is having serious health issues has never been seen as a good idea in the country.
    -Trump's a narcissist who probably wouldn't let them be honest about it even if his administration hadn't spent the better part of a year refusing to take the virus seriously.
    Sounds like North Korea.

  13. #59813
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    Lol Fox just accidentally out Mark Meadows as the source that Trump is doing much worse than the Drs let on.
    And Trump is furious.

    The NYTimes, the AP, and CNN why not all collectively report that Meadows was the official who said something other than "everything is perfect", and that he was basically forced to backtrack.

    Dr. Conley has also gone on record that, yes, okay, maybe Trump was on oxygen, but it would interfere with the upbeat message if --

    "What did Conley really say?"

    I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude of the team, that the president, that his course of illness has had.
    Which sounds a lot like "hey, that guy might be firing a bunch of bullets at us, but the sixth bullet missed, huh Fred?...Fred?...uh..."

  14. #59814
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I'm not sure this still holds true. Pence has gone right along with everything Trump has done (or said) the past few years with little to no resistance. Pence might have been their guy before this administration--I'm not convinced he still is after being complicit in it.
    So has basically every single Republican senator and frankly the entire party.
    Do they want to burn the entire party to the ground and start over?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  15. #59815
    Took the time to watch Trump's video. From what I can tell, I think it shows he is pretty sick for 1 big telling sign. He isn't doing his own face paint for it. That was the most human skin tone I recall seeing him have this entire time.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  16. #59816
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Do they want to burn the entire party to the ground and start over?
    Do they have a choice? I think they agreed to do that by backing Trump instead of their own platform.

  17. #59817
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  18. #59818
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The Wyoming Option would require an Amendment. I still prefer the NPVIC over the Wyoming Option, anyway.
    @Fugus and I agree on a lot of optimistic policies that should be invoked if Biden wins and the Senate flips. I've been in favor of something like the Wyoming option for awhile now, however, after a long discussion on these forums, someone pointed out that the math doesn't get much better for the EC weirdness if you expand the number of House seats. I cannot remember who that conversation was with - but if they read this, please chime in or PM me.

    For now, however, I am in favor of the NPVIC. It's a couple of states away from being approved, and at that point, the EC would cease to exist as a functioning entity. That being said, we would also need to expand SCOTUS to ensure it would pass an impartial review.

  19. #59819
    Meadows face during the medical presser today -

  20. #59820
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    It's not even good quality propaganda.
    It's being reported everywhere now.

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