Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

then why does the TV constantly go on about how grim it's looking for Joe

Because the news entertainment media loves to project potential bad news. Hence why I don't watch any news TV channel.

[Gorsameth]

there's only 2 people... him and biden... how can he win without having majority?

Your location is Europe, I assume your not familiar with the Electoral Collage?

Ok so every state is worth a certain number of electors (or basically votes). These electors later on vote for a candidate and the candidate with the majority of electoral votes, wins the Presidency.

The problem is that these electoral votes are, in most states, given away in a First past the post system. So winner takes all.

If there are 3 states, each worth 10 votes, each with 100k voters (for simplicity's sake)
Candidate A gets 90k votes in state 1, Candidate B get 10k votes. Candidate A wins 10 electoral votes.
Candidate A gets 45k votes in state 2, Candidate B get 55k votes. Candidate B wins 10 electoral votes.
Candidate A gets 45k votes in state 3, Candidate B get 55k votes. Candidate B wins 10 electoral votes.

Th result is 180k votes for Candidate A, 120k votes for Candidate B.
but Candidate A has 10 electoral votes, and Candidate B has 20 electoral Votes.
Candidate B becomes President despite losing the popular vote by over 30%.

Welcome to the glorious American system.

[YUPPIE]

Because the news entertainment media loves to project potential bad news. Hence why I don't watch any news TV channel.

is biden losing bad news? Like indisputably?

[Machismo]

is biden losing bad news? Like indisputably?

Well, it would mean another 4 years of a white Supremacist being President.

Why do you support such things?

[postman1782]

lol... what's the point of even voting then? when the winner doesn't represent the people...

There has been a lot of movement on people wanting to get rid of the Electoral College, but the only reason it is still there, is because Republicans vote against it. They haven't won a popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections, not including this year. The last time they won it was 2004.

[Orange Joe]

disregarding the white supremacist lingo, it just shows how loud the internet is but is really a vocal minority in the long run. More people like Trump enough to have him around for almost 10 years, so he must've done a lot of good even if you don't hear it.

You do understand if he wins it's be by EC not majority votes.

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there's only 2 people... him and biden... how can he win without having majority?

electoral college............

[Sunseeker]

There has been a lot of movement on people wanting to get rid of the Electoral College, but the only reason it is still there, is because Republicans vote against it. They haven't won a popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections, not including this year. The last time they won it was 2004.

The funny part is that up until Trump was elected, a lot of the push for eliminating the EC came from Republican constituents.

[PfeffermintShake]

The funny part is that up until Trump was elected, a lot of the push for eliminating the EC came from Republican constituents.

Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact



GOP support for EC reform peaked in 1969 with the Bayh–Celler amendment.

[Sunseeker]

Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact.

I have never heard of the NPV compact, so I'll take that one on the nose.

I speak only from what I heard locally as a Democrat living in a Republican state, before Trump, I had a lot of very productive discussions with Republicans about the elimination of the EC.

[Gorsameth]

lol... what's the point of even voting then? when the winner doesn't represent the people...

As i said, welcome to the glorious american voting system.
Its complete and utter dogshit but it would take a constitutional amendment to change which means 3/4's of states have to agree and there is always 1 party that doesn't want to do away with it so it can't.

It means that millions upon millions of votes do not matter because they are in a state that is solidly red or blue and any vote past 50.000001% is completely worthless.

[Fugus]

I have never heard of the NPV compact, so I'll take that one on the nose.

I speak only from what I heard locally as a Democrat living in a Republican state, before Trump, I had a lot of very productive discussions with Republicans about the elimination of the EC.

I had that talk with a few during Obama's term and they were supportive of it, then Trump came and all that went out the window because that is what it took for them actually take the presidency. They don't care about Democracy unless it says what they want it to.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact



GOP support for EC reform peaked in 1969 with the Bayh–Celler amendment.

Republicans were whining about the EC when Obama won. They would always cry about how California and New York always decide our elections and it's unfair that two states have so much power. Which is hilarious since there's like 3-5 swing states that are the only ones that really matter to candidates for campaigning in. Californian? Yeah you're not gonna see a left wing candidate do anything more than a token rally in your state. Texan? Well Texas used to be solidly red but it's starting to flip so we're beginning to see more campaigns there. But of course Louisiana and Mississippi get ignored. The Top Gear crew got assaulted for having pro-Hillary graffiti on their car even before 2016.

[Fahrenheit]

Republicans were whining about the EC when Obama won. They would always cry about how California and New York always decide our elections and it's unfair that two states have so much power. Which is hilarious since there's like 3-5 swing states that are the only ones that really matter to candidates for campaigning in. Californian? Yeah you're not gonna see a left wing candidate do anything more than a token rally in your state. Texan? Well Texas used to be solidly red but it's starting to flip so we're beginning to see more campaigns there. But of course Louisiana and Mississippi get ignored. The Top Gear crew got assaulted for having pro-Hillary graffiti on their car even before 2016.

I mean, Cali is a juggernaut, but Texas has more and Florida has the same EC votes that New York has, and they conveniently forget about them when standing up for the EC. Texas has been red for a long time, and Florida is increasingly looking like less of a battleground state and more of solid red state.

[Katchii]

there's only 2 people... him and biden... how can he win without having majority?

There aren't only 2 people. Trump and Biden are simply the most obvious choices.

[some guy]

There aren't only 2 people. Trump and Biden are simply the most obvious choices.

They are also the only ones who have a shot at winning with the system in place.

[Katchii]

They are also the only ones who have a shot at winning with the system in place.

Agreed, was simply pointing out that there are more than 2 candidates on the ballot.

[Breccia]

Unless he dies before that. And he could well die.

I don't actually wish death on anyone, and especially not Trump.

I want him poor and/or in jail for the rest of his life.

And when either/both happens, I want him to find out what happens when you sell out all your friends.

[some guy]

Agreed, was simply pointing out that there are more than 2 candidates on the ballot.

Yup, I was just putting it out there for full context from the question that was asked. I probably should have quoted the original question.

[Felya]

People crying about EC because Democrats fail to perform in rural states is a bigger problem with Democrats and not the Electoral College. We've had it for long time, why is this still shocking to people? The fact Biden didn't have this locked up thus far against Drumph proves Biden was as weak of candidate as I had been saying for months. I still think Biden will win, but honestly the whole election is a toss up at this point and it was Biden's to lose. Don't start crying about the rules after you loss.

Because this switch where popular vote does not match the electoral is very recent. How many times has that happened before 2000? How many times since? Yet, you ask why it wasn’t an issue before... okay...

Edit: Just because your roof never leaked before, doesn’t mean it leaking now isn’t an issue.

Edit 2: Is “we had it for a long time” a progressive argument, conservative or regressive? Originalist?

[Edge-]

People crying about EC because Democrats fail to perform in rural states is a bigger problem with Democrats and not the Electoral College. We've had it for long time, why is this still shocking to people? The fact Biden didn't have this locked up thus far against Drumph proves Biden was as weak of candidate as I had been saying for months. I still think Biden will win, but honestly the whole election is a toss up at this point and it was Biden's to lose. Don't start crying about the rules after you loss.

No, it's a fundamental problem with the EC where it over-values rural votes in less populous states compared to the value of votes in more populace states like CA and NY, and FL/TX for that matter too.

Losing the EC but winning the popular vote is pretty recent, it's happened before but was rare. It happening 2/3 times in the span of 20 years, and potentially twice in a row, is a sign that the EC is disproportionately giving power to those small states.

We aren't "crying after a loss", Democrats have been talking about this shit since the 2000 election.