1. #60061
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    lol... what's the point of even voting then? when the winner doesn't represent the people...
    There has been a lot of movement on people wanting to get rid of the Electoral College, but the only reason it is still there, is because Republicans vote against it. They haven't won a popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections, not including this year. The last time they won it was 2004.

  2. #60062
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    disregarding the white supremacist lingo, it just shows how loud the internet is but is really a vocal minority in the long run. More people like Trump enough to have him around for almost 10 years, so he must've done a lot of good even if you don't hear it.
    You do understand if he wins it's be by EC not majority votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    there's only 2 people... him and biden... how can he win without having majority?
    electoral college............
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  3. #60063
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    There has been a lot of movement on people wanting to get rid of the Electoral College, but the only reason it is still there, is because Republicans vote against it. They haven't won a popular vote in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections, not including this year. The last time they won it was 2004.
    The funny part is that up until Trump was elected, a lot of the push for eliminating the EC came from Republican constituents.
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  4. #60064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    The funny part is that up until Trump was elected, a lot of the push for eliminating the EC came from Republican constituents.
    Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact



    GOP support for EC reform peaked in 1969 with the Bayh–Celler amendment.
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  5. #60065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact.
    I have never heard of the NPV compact, so I'll take that one on the nose.

    I speak only from what I heard locally as a Democrat living in a Republican state, before Trump, I had a lot of very productive discussions with Republicans about the elimination of the EC.
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  6. #60066
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    lol... what's the point of even voting then? when the winner doesn't represent the people...
    As i said, welcome to the glorious american voting system.
    Its complete and utter dogshit but it would take a constitutional amendment to change which means 3/4's of states have to agree and there is always 1 party that doesn't want to do away with it so it can't.

    It means that millions upon millions of votes do not matter because they are in a state that is solidly red or blue and any vote past 50.000001% is completely worthless.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  7. #60067
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    I have never heard of the NPV compact, so I'll take that one on the nose.

    I speak only from what I heard locally as a Democrat living in a Republican state, before Trump, I had a lot of very productive discussions with Republicans about the elimination of the EC.
    I had that talk with a few during Obama's term and they were supportive of it, then Trump came and all that went out the window because that is what it took for them actually take the presidency. They don't care about Democracy unless it says what they want it to.
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  8. #60068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Seems factually wrong. There's no red states in the NPV compact



    GOP support for EC reform peaked in 1969 with the Bayh–Celler amendment.
    Republicans were whining about the EC when Obama won. They would always cry about how California and New York always decide our elections and it's unfair that two states have so much power. Which is hilarious since there's like 3-5 swing states that are the only ones that really matter to candidates for campaigning in. Californian? Yeah you're not gonna see a left wing candidate do anything more than a token rally in your state. Texan? Well Texas used to be solidly red but it's starting to flip so we're beginning to see more campaigns there. But of course Louisiana and Mississippi get ignored. The Top Gear crew got assaulted for having pro-Hillary graffiti on their car even before 2016.
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  9. #60069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Republicans were whining about the EC when Obama won. They would always cry about how California and New York always decide our elections and it's unfair that two states have so much power. Which is hilarious since there's like 3-5 swing states that are the only ones that really matter to candidates for campaigning in. Californian? Yeah you're not gonna see a left wing candidate do anything more than a token rally in your state. Texan? Well Texas used to be solidly red but it's starting to flip so we're beginning to see more campaigns there. But of course Louisiana and Mississippi get ignored. The Top Gear crew got assaulted for having pro-Hillary graffiti on their car even before 2016.
    I mean, Cali is a juggernaut, but Texas has more and Florida has the same EC votes that New York has, and they conveniently forget about them when standing up for the EC. Texas has been red for a long time, and Florida is increasingly looking like less of a battleground state and more of solid red state.
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  10. #60070
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    there's only 2 people... him and biden... how can he win without having majority?
    There aren't only 2 people. Trump and Biden are simply the most obvious choices.

  11. #60071
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    There aren't only 2 people. Trump and Biden are simply the most obvious choices.
    They are also the only ones who have a shot at winning with the system in place.

  12. #60072
    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    They are also the only ones who have a shot at winning with the system in place.
    Agreed, was simply pointing out that there are more than 2 candidates on the ballot.

  13. #60073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Unless he dies before that. And he could well die.
    I don't actually wish death on anyone, and especially not Trump.

    I want him poor and/or in jail for the rest of his life.

    And when either/both happens, I want him to find out what happens when you sell out all your friends.

  14. #60074
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Agreed, was simply pointing out that there are more than 2 candidates on the ballot.
    Yup, I was just putting it out there for full context from the question that was asked. I probably should have quoted the original question.

  15. #60075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    People crying about EC because Democrats fail to perform in rural states is a bigger problem with Democrats and not the Electoral College. We've had it for long time, why is this still shocking to people? The fact Biden didn't have this locked up thus far against Drumph proves Biden was as weak of candidate as I had been saying for months. I still think Biden will win, but honestly the whole election is a toss up at this point and it was Biden's to lose. Don't start crying about the rules after you loss.
    Because this switch where popular vote does not match the electoral is very recent. How many times has that happened before 2000? How many times since? Yet, you ask why it wasn’t an issue before... okay...

    Edit: Just because your roof never leaked before, doesn’t mean it leaking now isn’t an issue.

    Edit 2: Is “we had it for a long time” a progressive argument, conservative or regressive? Originalist?
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-11-04 at 05:48 PM.
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  16. #60076
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    People crying about EC because Democrats fail to perform in rural states is a bigger problem with Democrats and not the Electoral College. We've had it for long time, why is this still shocking to people? The fact Biden didn't have this locked up thus far against Drumph proves Biden was as weak of candidate as I had been saying for months. I still think Biden will win, but honestly the whole election is a toss up at this point and it was Biden's to lose. Don't start crying about the rules after you loss.
    No, it's a fundamental problem with the EC where it over-values rural votes in less populous states compared to the value of votes in more populace states like CA and NY, and FL/TX for that matter too.

    Losing the EC but winning the popular vote is pretty recent, it's happened before but was rare. It happening 2/3 times in the span of 20 years, and potentially twice in a row, is a sign that the EC is disproportionately giving power to those small states.

    We aren't "crying after a loss", Democrats have been talking about this shit since the 2000 election.

  17. #60077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, it's a fundamental problem with the EC where it over-values rural votes in less populous states compared to the value of votes in more populace states like CA and NY, and FL/TX for that matter too.

    Losing the EC but winning the popular vote is pretty recent, it's happened before but was rare. It happening 2/3 times in the span of 20 years, and potentially twice in a row, is a sign that the EC is disproportionately giving power to those small states.

    We aren't "crying after a loss", Democrats have been talking about this shit since the 2000 election.
    Democrats: “Get out and vote!!!”
    Republicans: “May we have a look at that census?”

    That simple.
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  18. #60078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Which, tbf, was a loss for the dems... so it can be perceived as crying after a loss.
    I don’t know... in sports, trading for a better play can mean you want to close the gap at the finish line.
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  19. #60079
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You mean it values those in rural areas the "minority" over those who live in large urban areas the Majority.
    Uh...yeah? Like, people's votes should count equally, regardless of if they live in a rural farmtown with 50 people vs. a urban city with millions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    If it's happen so frequently it's because the Democrats fail to reach out to rural voters and struggle to even get out their own voters, but of course that couldn't possible be the case.
    Because those are Republican voters that are difficult to reach? Because they shouldn't have outsized influence on the election, especially given the relatively low contribution to the country economically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Sorry we aren't a Majority Rules Republic, and we never have been.
    For a great many things...we are. Senate races, House races, governors, propositions etc. are all "majority rules". The President is the only office where there's a secondary layer obfuscating the vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Crying about it 200 years later because your side isn't winning and wanting to change the rules is a bigger problem then trying to address the needs of people and winning a majority of all the states.
    No, because it's been historically rare for such an occurrence until recent years. That speaks to a late developing flaw with a system created 200 years ago that doesn't have any place in modern society anymore.

  20. #60080
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    You mean it values those in rural areas the "minority" over those who live in large urban areas the Majority. If it's happen so frequently it's because the Democrats fail to reach out to rural voters and struggle to even get out their own voters, but of course that couldn't possible be the case. Sorry we aren't a Majority Rules Republic, and we never have been. Crying about it 200 years later because your side isn't winning and wanting to change the rules is a bigger problem then trying to address the needs of people and winning a majority of all the states.
    How do you reach someone who lives in a different reality?

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