1. #61281
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Stay safe, folks.
    Always appreciate the daily recaps, my dude.

  2. #61282
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    This. However I also agree with Pelosi, the US needs a strong, principled conservative party. The Republicans are no longer viable in this role. Hopefully an implosion if the Republican party will make space for something that actually strengthens democracy, and doesn't try to subvert it at every turn.
    We already have a strong, semi-principled, conservative party, the Democrats. The Republicans haven't filled that role in a long time.
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  3. #61283
    I’m curious what is the purpose of a “Conservative party”.

  4. #61284
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The US already has the Democrats as its center-right party.

    It does not need a conservative party in the "traditional" sense, because the tradition is fundamentally unjust and undemocratic. A new median is needed.
    A complete and total collapse of the Republican party, followed by a schism in the Democratic Party, leading to a national Progressive or Dem Soc Party on the left and the Democratic Party on the right, would be the best thing for the country overall.

    Since Progressives and Democrats are pretty much in lock step on social values (essentially, have whatever social values you want personally, but don't try to legislate your preferences to strip rights from others with different preferences), that would leave the lines of division on things like worker rights, tax policy, the role of government in providing social services, the strength of the military, etc.

    You know, the things that actually matter in terms of governance and making a difference in the day to day in the lives of constituents, instead of nonsense like "religious freedom" to discriminate against LGBT and control women's health.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    LOL never change guys. I guess you won't because conservatism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I do care what people on this forum think of me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This site is amazing. It's comments like this, that make this site amazing.

  5. #61285
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I’m curious what is the purpose of a “Conservative party”.
    look out for the interests of the elite (democracy relies on thier voluntary participation) , and maintain a firewall against fascism.

    republicans have obviously failed badly in the US. 'Conservative Parties and the Birth of Democracy' is the book for you. I'm sure if you google it you will find articles with Ziblatt (how democracies die is pretty decent too)

  6. #61286
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    look out for the interests of the elite (democracy relies on thier voluntary participation) , and maintain a firewall against fascism.

    republicans have obviously failed badly in the US. 'Conservative Parties and the Birth of Democracy' is the book for you. I'm sure if you google it you will find articles with Ziblatt (how democracies die is pretty decent too)
    Thanks for the info.

    Your quick explanation makes me think society is better off without “elites”. Or a upper limit for “elites” wealth and influence should be placed.

  7. #61287
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antiganon View Post
    A complete and total collapse of the Republican party, followed by a schism in the Democratic Party, leading to a national Progressive or Dem Soc Party on the left and the Democratic Party on the right, would be the best thing for the country overall.

    Since Progressives and Democrats are pretty much in lock step on social values (essentially, have whatever social values you want personally, but don't try to legislate your preferences to strip rights from others with different preferences), that would leave the lines of division on things like worker rights, tax policy, the role of government in providing social services, the strength of the military, etc.

    You know, the things that actually matter in terms of governance and making a difference in the day to day in the lives of constituents, instead of nonsense like "religious freedom" to discriminate against LGBT and control women's health.
    Or, in summary:

    The culture war needs to end, with present "conservatives" acknowledging that their beliefs have a generational expiration date.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  8. #61288
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    Don't be silly.
    He is above God !
    He is like "Elder god", "High God", "God of Gods".
    He created Gods.
    So what? Will Don Jr castrate Trump and throw his 'nads into the sea, from which will spring the most beautiful goddess Ivanka ever?

  9. #61289
    GOP are just kind of crazy, the ads being played in Iowa about Greenfield and Ernst are bonkers, in one pro Ernst ad she talks about keeping insurance for pre-existing conditions, another for making medication affordable, and a final one about how she will protect social security, these positions are the literal opposite of the planks of the Republican Party and the opposite of her voting record. Then her attack ads on Greenfield have her kicking families out of their homes, raising taxes and spending $95 trillion on healthcare (not a typo), and a final ad where Greenfield morphs into Nancy Pelosi while AOC's dismembered head is yelling about socialism.

    It is like the entire GOP has gone collectively insane in solidarity with Trump.

  10. #61290
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Or, in summary:

    The culture war needs to end, with present "conservatives" acknowledging that their beliefs have a generational expiration date.
    They would rather burn this nation to the ground to ensure they were the ones ruling over the ashes in an attempt to prove themselves right than ever watch this nation and their children thrive in a world that proves them wrong.
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  11. #61291
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    If they try that bipartisan crap then we are fucked as a nation and I hope they realize that and is probably what the republicans fear they have figured out by now.

    When the Democrats get in, they know they need to give the Republicans a taste of their own medicine this time or they prove that there are no consequences and even further emboldens those like AOC to run which they fear.

    If the Democrats get power, they need to be as bipartisan as the republicans were in Trumps first 2 years and cooperate just as much as then and what they pulled under Obama. If they haven't figured out that by now, we are effectively screwed as a nation unless the younger generation raise up enough to replace them with people who will.
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #61292
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    If they take the house and old Moscow Mitch the B1tch still holds the Senate, then there still will be no bipartisanship regardless of what they do. He will hold the entire thing hostage and will blame them for not getting anything done unless they can actually get their messaging out enough about it to prove it is him.

    If they attempt to actually play nice at all at this point, even if the Republicans control the Senate, they further prove they are spineless and there are no consequences.

    If the Democrats take the house and the presidency, they need to actually investigate Kavanaugh and have him removed for Perjury, if this new girl is confirmed, I would have them look into her and her religious group she hid originally and any omissions from her stuff there and do the same.

    I would also have them investigate Trump and drag all his stuff to light, I would investigate McConnell personally and his actions in regards to Trump and how the Russians personally rewarded him and his state for him protecting Trump, I would investigate Lindsey, Tillis, Matt Gates and all the others who enabled him and were derelict in their duties and make the next few years a living hell for him and have all their lies and miss deeds plastered wall to wall on every news stations and sight for all to see.

    I would also investigate Fox for their actions and lies and their pretending to be a news source to their viewers but claiming to be an entertainment source to get around honesty and would have them forced to either actually be honest or to put visible disclaimers on every show at the start, end and after every commercial break that their show isn't a news source and is entertainment. I would even push to force the hosts of such shows to verbally say it at the start of every episode.

    Even if the Republicans keep the Senate, the Democrats need to go hard on them and refuse to play nice, make their lives a living hell and make them regret all they did and strip them of their image and their ability to lie to their people.

    Biden could start issuing executive orders limiting their abilities to collect donations or other such stuff (Not sure the limits of them legally) but basically do executive orders that the entire nation agrees and make sure the house passes them as a law. Then watch the Republicans try and fight the executive order and make sure it is televised and when they try and claim that they support it but it over steps his bounds, his response right there, in the Senate in session and on camera is, "Well, a bill has passed the house about this very issue you claim to support and is sitting on McConnell's desk right now, instead of fighting this, put your money where you mouth is and lets vote on that bill right now for the cameras".

    All they need is the president and congress and the Democrats can reign hell on them for all they have done, they just have to have the balls to do it, something they have never seemed to have when they get power for as long as I have been old enough to vote and payed attention.

    Edit: AFK and off to bed, will check back later.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2020-10-11 at 07:28 AM.
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  13. #61293
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As I said, I see no real reason why the democrats would attempt to be bipartisan any more at this point in time. The democrat big wigs seem absolutely, 100% done with the republicans.

    The necessary "bipartisanship" I can see from them is if the democrats fail to retake the senate, and McConnell's yertle-the-turtle ass remains in place, demanding his republican underlings in the senate continue towing the exact same obstructionist line they have been for the past decade. Though I would hopefully expect at that point that Biden and Pelosi's house will make the senate an absolute hell for McConnell and co, and work around him as much as possible.
    Except the democratic big wigs have never shown the balls to actually do this, let's not forget Chuck Schummer is no Mitch McConnell he has shown zero ability to keep his caucus in line. We have democrats like Joe Manchin who have already openly stated they are want to bring "bipartisanship back". The reason things are the way they are is because the democratic party remains a party that has spent decades trying to be a big tent party all the while pissing on its base.

    I do not see this changing we simply do not have the kind of leadership at the top that republicans do, I don't see neither Pelosi, Biden or Schummer as the type of people to push for this or have the party discipline to pull it off. I clearly hope I am wrong but I think democrats should have lower expectations of their party. The way I see it republicans will take back the house at least in 2022 due to the democratic base being disappointed with the DNC once again.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2020-10-11 at 08:14 AM.

  14. #61294
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Except the democratic big wigs have never shown the balls to actually do this, let's not forget Chuck Schummer is no Mitch McConnell he has shown zero ability to keep his caucus in line. We have democrats like Joe Manchin who have already openly stated they are want to bring "bipartisanship back". The reason things are the way they are is because the democratic party remains a party that has spent decades trying to be a big tent party all the while pissing on its base.

    I do not see this changing we simply do not have the kind of leadership at the top that republicans do, I don't see neither Pelosi, Biden or Schummer as the type of people to push for this or have the party discipline to pull it off. I clearly hope I am wrong but I think democrats should have lower expectations of their party. The way I see it republicans will take back the house at least in 2022 due to the democratic base being disappointed with the DNC once again.
    So the 2010s again (the last 40 years even)? Which has been the slogan this year for some reason?

    History says you're right but I always hold out that someone on the left steps up and pulls the party out of its "Always the 2nd option" rut but wouldn't bet on it.

    Democrats don't have or have never been able to really carve out a clear agenda once in true power, and thus lose it as quickly as they gain it. The best thing from the DNC in the last 40 years has been the ACA, what was a concession to the Right one not many seem to improve upon. Obama was obviously better for the country than Trump and yet a sizable portion of his voters went to Trump because the moderate DNC only looks attractive when it has to clean up the mess of moderates to the right. Otherwise it looks like a party of leaders who seem like they are always walking on eggshells too worried about pleasing the other side to do anything worthwhile.

    There is a reason why the DNC is notorious for its turnout issues while the RNC is so confident in its base that it rather persuade others to not vote. Fence sitting is a terrible ideology.

  15. #61295
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    So Trump went from "no negotiations till after the election, nope, not one, not even a little" to "how about I raise my offer?" in about 36 hours. So I guess progress can still--

    "The GOP blocked it."

    What?

    "The Senate GOP, not calling them Party of Trump due to current context, said $1.8 trillion was still too high. So, they're taking a bullet on this one."

    Senate Republicans raised concerns about the $1.8 trillion price tag of the White House's latest offer to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), multiple sources familiar with the call told The Hill.

    One source familiar with the call said that there were "significant concerns raised with the price tag."


    "There’s an openness to continue negotiating, but the current top line is an obstacle," the source added.

    Concerns about the White House's offer came from across the conference, underscoring the work the White House and President Trump face to get any potential deal across the finish line in the GOP-controlled Senate even as the president has publicly urged negotiators to "go big."

    Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), who chairs the Senate Health Committee, told Meadows and Mnuchin that there was "no appetite" within the Senate Republican Conference for a $1.8 trillion bill, a second person briefed on the call told The Hill. Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) warned that it could be a "death knell" for the party in November, and Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) told Meadows and Mnuchin, "I don't get it."

    Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), who recently tested positive for the coronavirus, also expressed concern that it would cost the party support in the election and would take the focus off of the caucus's top priority: confirming Judge Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court.
    Huh. Well, at least the GOP is being professional about this, not handwaving relief millions need with a profane state--

    This bill makes sex look like church,” Lee said on the call, according to a source.
    Okay, wow. But at least the GOP is united behin--

    In response to the GOP criticism, Meadows told Republicans that "you all will have to come to my funeral" once he delivered their concerns to Trump, who has appeared eager in recent days for a large deal on coronavirus relief, a GOP aide confirmed to The Hill.
    Okay. Interesting. But if Trump is saying $1.8 trillion, surely the GOP have an offer in the same general ballp--

    Republicans initially offered a $1.1 trillion package in late July, but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) warned that up to 20 GOP senators could vote against it.

    Fifty-two GOP senators later backed a scaled-down $500 billion bill, with several expressing hope at the time that the White House would use the legislation as the basis of its negotiations with Pelosi.
    "So that's the deal. In kind of a stunning swap set, McConnell is no longer stanind back and letting Trump do the negotiations. Instead, he's pushing a proposal so much a lowball, it bounces before the plate. There's not going to be a COVID relief bill, because the Republican Party is willing to go on record saying no. Pelosi still goes on public record of wanting to help the American people, and even Trump gets a bit of a win by offering to negotiate...before McConnell slammed the door."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I would also have them investigate Trump and drag all his stuff to light
    As much as I don't want to say "winners get to punish the losers" we have so many IGs coming forward in the last four years, flanked by whistleblowers, that ignoring an entire term filled with deceit, lies, fraud and Trump over party and country, that an example must be made.

    This cannot happen again.

  16. #61296

  17. #61297
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I would also recommend this thread on an Eric Trump interview from the same show. This is my favourite part:
    How disconnected from reality are the Trump family?
    Maybe Trump supplied the aborted fetuses that were used to develop the "vaccine"?

  18. #61298
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    Maybe Trump supplied the aborted fetuses that were used to develop the "vaccine"?
    Not gonna lie, I bet he's had more than his fair share of them.

    Here's another, developing, thread.
    This family is either bat shit crazy, or expects those supporting them to believe all this bat shit crazy stuff.

  19. #61299
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Not gonna lie, I bet he's had more than his fair share of them.
    A few more would've been nice.
    /s

  20. #61300
    How many times can a president fail this question? He literally has no idea about anything policy-wise, does he?

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