Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[beanman12345]

As I've said, I completely agree with what's being said about them, but I don't really agree that majority of people will see this as troops getting away with any crime that they want, especially since the military themselves sided with the Iraqi government, in condemning the actions of Blackwater and faulting them (Blackwater) for what happened.

Yes, the military employed this private company, meaning the contractors were representing them, but I'm not going to compare these civilians as actual service members, cause they weren't. If anything, I put majority of the blame on the Erick Prince and whoever else owned the company, including those who were responsible for hiring the individuals that they contracted out to the military.

The military definitely doesn't have clean hands, don't get me wrong.

While I personally agree, there is a distinction, maybe even the majority of people will see the distinction, but a large portion of people won't. And even then in the eyes of many it's guilt by association. Now you can such cut ties with that association, and if we have, then the guilt is unwarranted, but if we haven't, I'm not sure I don't know anything about this contractor you are much more informed than I on this topic, than it is warranted imo. I think that is the point people are trying to make, the association guilt.

[Breccia]

McConnell is effectively broadcasting that the $2,000 relief payments won't happen at all.

The Senate is not going to split apart the three issues that President Trump linked together just because Democrats are afraid to address two of them. The Senate is not going to be bullied into rushing out more borrowed money into the hands of Democrats rich friends who don't need the help

"Democrats rich friends? He does know Trump asked for this, right?"

So McConnell --

"McConnell knows there's an income cap to the payments, right?"

So McConnell --

"Didn't he block unemployment benefits? Are the Democrats rich friends...unemployed?"

So McConnell is using Trump's other requirements as an excuse -- the Section 230 issue, for example. McConnell knows that Trump's other demands won't pass on their own. Therefore, he's holding the payments hostage.

And Trump will back this play, and blame Democrats.

[Benggaul]

234,550 new cases is a little above what we had last Wednesday before testing went to shit, so that's not encouraging. Yesterday's totals have also been updated to about where they were last Tuesday.

Top 10:

California: 32,525 new cases; 427 deaths
Texas: 19,715 new cases; 314 deaths (new record*)
New York: 13,886 new cases (new record); 193 deaths
Fuck Florida.
Georgia: 9,053 new cases; 67 deaths
Pennsylvania: 8,565 new cases; 335 deaths (new record*)
North Carolina: 8,551 new cases (new record); 155 deaths
Tennessee: 8,220 new cases; 100 deaths
Ohio: 8,178 new cases; 134 deaths
Illinois: 7,374 new cases; 215 deaths

The records for Texas and Pennsylvania are asterisked because the actual records are likely correction days.

Testing is still below what it was before the holiday, so the fact that we're hitting about the same numbers is, as previously mentioned, not a good sign. The data is still too sporadic in a large swath of the country to get a bead on things and it's going to be interrupted again for New Year's which means things won't get back on track until sometime near the end of next week and I still suspect some states will never get back to their prior testing levels much like Florida when they shut up the temporary testing sites before a hurricane hit and then just never got around to testing properly again. The bottom line is we're still pretty fucked.

Yesterday's death total was updated to 3,717 and was a new national record. Was. Today it's 3,880--another new national record--and brings the total to 350,778. We ended up passing 350k before the end of the year after all. Some of that is, again, likely to be a correction from the previous week of underreporting, but given that a large portion of it is coming from California and they're one of the few states that kept testing consistently through the holidays I'd say it's probably not that far off.

Related news:

California reports first case of more contagious COVID-19 strain; more states expected
Colorado coronavirus new variant: Officials suspect they've found a second case of UK variant--These go together and it's bad. The UK variant is a more contagious version of the virus and it will mean even more outbreaks even under the strictest of conditions.

Dawn Wells Dies Of Covid-19: Mary Ann On ‘Gilligan’s Island’ Was 82--My first ever crush. 2020 is pretty much taking away everything I love(d).

Stay safe, folks.

[Levelfive]

McConnell is effectively broadcasting that the $2,000 relief payments won't happen at all.



"Democrats rich friends? He does know Trump asked for this, right?"

So McConnell --

"McConnell knows there's an income cap to the payments, right?"

So McConnell --

"Didn't he block unemployment benefits? Are the Democrats rich friends...unemployed?"

So McConnell is using Trump's other requirements as an excuse -- the Section 230 issue, for example. McConnell knows that Trump's other demands won't pass on their own. Therefore, he's holding the payments hostage.

And Trump will back this play, and blame Democrats.

Is there any reason Democrats can't call his bluff? By all means, go ahead and investigate the absence of "voter fraud" (other than that Republican voting as his dead mother); repealing 230 would just incentivize media companies to ban problematic users (ahem), and it forces Republicans to do something good for the people and the economy as Biden takes office, which of course is what they're really trying to prevent. So link them, fuckface.

[Breccia]

Is there any reason Democrats can't call his bluff?

I disagree with your thoughts about Section 230. The results would be more than "MMO-C bans trolls for posting conspiracy theories" it would be "trolls chain-sue MMO-C for posts they disagree with, MMO-C shuts down forums entirely".

No, Democrats won't shut down social media just to call McConnell's bluff.

[omerome]

I disagree with your thoughts about Section 230. The results would be more than "MMO-C bans trolls for posting conspiracy theories" it would be "trolls chain-sue MMO-C for posts they disagree with, MMO-C shuts down forums entirely".

No, Democrats won't shut down social media just to call McConnell's bluff.

Yeah, screw Mitch. That is not just a poison pill, but straight up toxic waste. It would kill the internet as we know it forever. He's literally saying to people drowning in the ocean, I have a life raft that can save everyone, but I don't feel like using it.

[PhaelixWW]

California: 32,525 new cases; 427 deaths

You might as well have marked this as a new record; the only reason it wasn't is because the large update to yesterday's numbers pushed California to 430 after you posted the total at 203, so you never got a chance to mark yesterday as the new record.

[Levelfive]

I disagree with your thoughts about Section 230. The results would be more than "MMO-C bans trolls for posting conspiracy theories" it would be "trolls chain-sue MMO-C for posts they disagree with, MMO-C shuts down forums entirely".

No, Democrats won't shut down social media just to call McConnell's bluff.

Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.

[Felya]

Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.

The ramifications would be astronomical, even if it lasts a week. Wikipidia would be gone... it’s taking China’s censorship, but including everything on the banned list. Instead of just shit against US, it would be everything.

[kaid]

Maybe they should. The issue could be revisited under Biden, especially considering his deputy chief of staff also wants it completely reformed.

And honestly the social media companies would fire off law suites instantly and the chance of that lasting under the withering barrage of court cases is low given how corporate friendly the SCOTUS is. Then you get into the freedom of speech and freedom of religeon issues it would likely get tossed pretty fast as unconstitutional.

[Levelfive]

The ramifications would be astronomical, even if it lasts a week. Wikipidia would be gone... it’s taking China’s censorship, but including everything on the banned list. Instead of just shit against US, it would be everything.

McConnell does not want members of his caucus on record for this vote which is why he's saying it can't be passed instead of bringing it to a vote. I have to admit I'm curious.

- - - Updated - - -

And honestly the social media companies would fire off law suites instantly and the chance of that lasting under the withering barrage of court cases is low given how corporate friendly the SCOTUS is. Then you get into the freedom of speech and freedom of religeon issues it would likely get tossed pretty fast as unconstitutional.

And there's no question Trump is dying to sue twitter, too, for sure--it would be nice if Democrats got creative and brave enough to beat McConnell at his own game for once.

[Felya]

McConnell does not want members of his caucus on record for this vote which is why he's saying it can't be passed instead of bringing it to a vote. I have to admit I'm curious.

If anything, this needs to be a lesson to those pushing AOC and other progressives, to attack Palosi over a M4A bill. You see what this fuck face does with votes that should be a no brainer... ceremonial votes are a huge risk. You want to shame McConnel? The guy who has been holding up a vote on Violence Against Women Act renewal, since March 2019? Good luck...

[Levelfive]

If anything, this needs to be a lesson to those pushing AOC and other progressives, to attack Palosi over a M4A bill. You see what this fuck face does with votes that should be a no brainer... ceremonial votes are a huge risk. You want to shame McConnel? The guy who has been holding up a vote on Violence Against Women Act renewal, since March 2019? Good luck...

Oh McConnell is unshame-able and gets off on being despised, but he is very very serious about protecting his members, his majority, and his speakership, which is the line he's trying to walk here--Republicans don't want to cross Trump and risk getting primaried or otherwise tanking their political futures, but they also want to make sure Biden can't get anything done, hence they're born-again virgin Deficit Hawks. McConnell wants to make sure they don't have to go on record, they can say whatever need to to their constituencies and not get blamed for refusing to provide relief. McConnell is actually on the back foot here.

[Felya]

Oh McConnell is unshame-able and gets off on being despised, but he is very very serious about protecting his members, his majority, and his speakership, which is the line he's trying to walk here--Republicans don't want to cross Trump and risk getting primaried or otherwise tanking their political futures, but they also want to make sure Biden can't get anything done, hence they're born again-virgin Deficit Hawks. McConnell wants to make sure they don't have to go on record, they can say whatever need to to their constituencies, and not get blamed for refusing to provide relief. McConnell is actually on the back foot here.

I just hope democrats take the senate... I like what Vaush calls it... Anarcho-Bidenist until January 20th... then we take the bitch down!!!

[Levelfive]

I just hope democrats take the senate... I like what Vaush calls it... Anarcho-Bidenist until January 20th... then we take the bitch down!!!

I can't bring myself to believe we'll take the Senate. Elizabeth Warren put out a list somewhere of things Biden can get done without Congress. I cling to that.

[Felya]

I can't bring myself to believe we'll take the Senate. Elizabeth Warren put out a list somewhere of things Biden can get done without Congress. I cling to that.

I am going into new year with a positive attitude... have not watched wrestling since Sunday... nothing will distract me from positivity into new year...

[Pannonian]

As I've said, I completely agree with what's being said about them, but I don't really agree that majority of people will see this as troops getting away with any crime that they want, especially since the military themselves sided with the Iraqi government, in condemning the actions of Blackwater and faulting them (Blackwater) for what happened.

Yes, the military employed this private company, meaning the contractors were representing them, but I'm not going to compare these civilians as actual service members, cause they weren't. If anything, I put majority of the blame on the Erick Prince and whoever else owned the company, including those who were responsible for hiring the individuals that they contracted out to the military.

The military definitely doesn't have clean hands, don't get me wrong.

You might not want to hear this, but from my outside perspective it is even worse:

That criminal army members rarely face charges for killing second rate people (aka. middle easteners) isn't something new. We all remember Abu Ghraib. So, the US cracking down on misbehavior on their troops? No one in my country would ever expect that. We have enough examples that this imperialistic army gets away with many war crimes.

And, that's not special to Donald Trump. Every President of my life time is tangled up in this (from my outside perspective) weird patriotism that shield itself from any criticism.

The only new thing is that they not only give murderers of the official forces a pass, but now also the private goons.

But let's be clear, that the american imperialistic forces rarely face consequences isn't something new, and i cannot say i'm surprised.

From my perspective the only difference between the US army and blackwater goons is the uniform. Their methods, goals and commands are the same.

I at least hope the military is outraged by the pardons, least of all because of self interest. If the americans don't face any consequences, it's just one more reason for them to be attacked without remorse. If i'd be an Iraqi I'd see them as an occupying pillaging force without any morals, and yeah i'd not shed a tear for some goons to be deleted from this world.

[Levelfive]

Completely caving was always the first option, really: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-end-in-senate

[Felya]

Completely caving was always the first option, really: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...-end-in-senate

Bernie didn’t cave and caving wasn’t an option, it was a feature of this whole circus. Trump tried vengeance against republicans and they responded by saying he is their tool, not the other way around.

[Levelfive]

Bernie didn’t cave and caving wasn’t an option, it was a feature of this whole circus. Trump tried vengeance against republicans and they responded by saying he is their tool, not the other way around.

How was caving not an option when that's exactly what they did? A handful of Democrats didn't cave, which still gave McConnell exactly what he and his caucus needed.