Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Mormolyce]

A measure of restraint would have served Trump well after he won in 2016. Instead he went on the very deep end with every passing year. Getting worse and worse.

Yeah but that's kind of like asking why fish don't grow wings and fly.

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Even taking those quotes at their worst, this is still a reach. To agree with this, I would first need to believe Trump is a mastermind and has been planning this day for months/years.

You'd have to have a severe mental handicap to not be aware that Trump has spent the last two months inciting his base to not accept the results of a democratic election.

[Gorsameth]

so apparently, despite an actual attack on the capitol building by insurgents. Complete with bombs planted 138 out of 204 House Republicans and 7 Senators voted to overturn the election results.

Where does this end? Is America doomed in the long run? Because I don't see how this gets a happy end.

Expelling members might have worked if its a dozen people at most but this goes way to deep for that.
Seriously, how can you have a government where 1/3 openly supports an insurrection exist and function?

What is the way forward from here?

[Mormolyce]

so apparently, despite an actual attack on the capitol building by insurgents. Complete with bombs planted 138 out of 204 House Republicans and 7 Senators voted to overturn the election results.

Where does this end? Is America doomed in the long run? Because I don't see how this gets a happy end.

Expelling members might have worked if its a dozen people at most but this goes way to deep for that.
Seriously, how can you have a government where 1/3 openly supports an insurrection exist and function?

What is the way forward from here?

If American democracy is worth the paper it's written on, all 138 House members and 7 Senators should be expelled from office, prohibited from running again, and probably charged.

[Machismo]

so apparently, despite an actual attack on the capitol building by insurgents. Complete with bombs planted 138 out of 204 House Republicans and 7 Senators voted to overturn the election results.

Where does this end? Is America doomed in the long run? Because I don't see how this gets a happy end.

Expelling members might have worked if its a dozen people at most but this goes way to deep for that.
Seriously, how can you have a government where 1/3 openly supports an insurrection exist and function?

What is the way forward from here?

It ends when people stop trying to baby the Trumpsters.

It ends when we stop socializing with them, stop letting them around our families.

It ends, when they either recant all of their shitty Nazi ways, or they disappear from society.

[Paranoid Android]

It ends when people stop trying to baby the Trumpsters.

It ends when we stop socializing with them, stop letting them around our families.

It ends, when they either recant all of their shitty Nazi ways, or they disappear from society.

Starting here on MMO-C when the Trumpers crawl from under their rocks is not to engage these people. They are scum! We should stop feeding their extreme right ideology on this website. Hey, we had discussion about the bubble and what Trumpers love to say is this some leftie hangout on these forums. I would LOVE to have discussion with reasonable people, but as in IRL there are none here. They are radical, they are conspiracists crazies, they are full of hate to people who don't believe their ideology.

You cannot reason with these people.

[Draco-Onis]

It ends when people stop trying to baby the Trumpsters.

It ends when we stop socializing with them, stop letting them around our families.

It ends, when they either recant all of their shitty Nazi ways, or they disappear from society.

Yup Trumpism is not going away after everything that happened hundreds of lawmakers still stand by him, they are a cancer and you don't get rid of it by coddling it.

[Grimbold21]

It ends when people stop trying to baby the Trumpsters.

It ends when we stop socializing with them, stop letting them around our families.

It ends, when they either recant all of their shitty Nazi ways, or they disappear from society.

But they don't disappear do they?

That's the problem with extremists and their ignorant followers who are utterly convinced of the righteousness of their ideology isn't it? It's nearly impossible to reason them out of their bubble, and acknowledging everyone's lack of patience to commit to that effort, one is left with very few and serious options.

I dunno, you either make it unlawful for this sort of ideology to exist thus making them eligible for imprisonment, as opposed to waiting for them to resort to violence; or that "disappear from society" means their death.

That or it means that they're relegated to the margins of society. But one needs to consider the ramifications of marginalized people, no?

[Machismo]

Yup Trumpism is not going away after everything that happened hundreds of lawmakers still stand by him, they are a cancer and you don't get rid of it by coddling it.

Nope. You get rid of it by excising it out of your life, and leaving it to die alone.

I think most people are aware that I fucking love to argue. I love being right, and I love saying, "I told you so." I'm not exactly subtle about it around these parts.

On social media, I haven't said a word. I haven't shouted a single syllable to any Trump supporter, and haven't posted my thoughts... not once. Instead, I'm sitting back, and watching everyone I know talk about it, and seeing how everyone reacts. As much as I want to rub it in their faces, I am doing my damndest to show restraint. I'm simply deciding who I want in my life, and who is unnecessary. Now, I'm not arrogant to think that most of those people will even miss me if I simply cut contact, people simply drift apart. Most will likely not even notice I've ceased all contact. But, I will... and that is all that matters.

Peace, at last.

[Draco-Onis]

That or it means that they're relegated to the margins of society. But one needs to consider the ramifications of marginalized people, no?

I can't help but feel that you are using the word marginalized incorrectly here by that train of thought Nazis, serial killers, pedophiles, rapists are "marginalized". Should we consider them too?

[Paranoid Android]

Some people are really calling that there is a Fifth Column in the Capitol Police.

Woah! Yea, some are going with the Trump Deep State. Yet, many police walked them past the guards and didn't seem to do much when in the Capitol. Also many were allowed to walk out. Now I read/heard that out of 2,200 police only 500 or so were on duty!? So maybe arrests were too much a tax on personal, idk.

A few posts above there is talk about will this go away. Seems that we do have people who we expect to uphold our democracy are secretly on the side of fascism.

[Draco-Onis]

Some people are really calling that there is a Fifth Column in the Capitol Police.

Woah! Yea, some are going with the Trump Deep State. Yet, many police walked them past the guards and didn't seem to do much when in the Capitol. Also many were allowed to walk out. Now I read/heard that out of 2,200 police only 500 or so were on duty!? So maybe arrests were too much a tax on personal, idk.

A few posts above there is talk about will this go away. Seems that we do have people who we expect to uphold our democracy are secretly on the side of fascism.

There's videos all around showing them opening barricades and taking fucking selfies with them.

[Machismo]

But they don't disappear do they?

That's the problem with extremists and their ignorant followers who are utterly convinced of the righteousness of their ideology isn't it? It's nearly impossible to reason them out of their bubble, and acknowledging everyone's lack of patience to commit to that effort, one is left with very few and serious options.

I dunno, you either make it unlawful for this sort of ideology to exist thus making them eligible for imprisonment, as opposed to waiting for them to resort to violence; or that "disappear from society" means their death.

That or it means that they're relegated to the margins of society. But one needs to consider the ramifications of marginalized people, no?

Nope, I fully expect them to keep pushing their bullshit for a time. Just as in Germany, Nazis can live for a very long time. That doesn't mean we treat them like functioning members of society.

They are free to have their shitty ideologies. But, if they choose to act violently, or take away the rights of others... you strike at them in a manner which leaves no doubt where you stand, and is an example to anyone else who wishes to do the same.

[Grimbold21]

I can't help but feel that you are using the word marginalized incorrectly here by that train of thought Nazis, serial killers, pedophiles, rapists are "marginalized". Should we consider them too?

I can see how or why you'd think that. The underpinning thought is that these people think of themselves as some idiotic silent majority whose voices have been oppressed or smth, at least that's the koolaid Trump has had them drink.

With that in mind, and in light of the gargantuan task that is to convince them otherwise, they would, eventually, be placed at the margins of society and social discourse. My point is wouldn't that reinforce the resentment aspect of their identity and ideology?

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Nope, I fully expect them to keep pushing their bullshit for a time. Just as in Germany, Nazis can live for a very long time. That doesn't mean we treat them like functioning members of society.

They are free to have their shitty ideologies. But, if they choose to act violently, or take away the rights of others... you strike at them in a manner which leaves no doubt where you stand, and is an example to anyone else who wishes to do the same.

So, in essence, business as usual as far as the treatment of extremists go; social condemnation and imprisonment in case of violent action

[jonnysensible]

I can see how or why you'd think that. The underpinning thought is that these people think of themselves as some idiotic silent majority whose voices have been oppressed or smth, at least that's the koolaid Trump has had them drink.

With that in mind, and in light of the gargantuan task that is to convince them otherwise, they would, eventually, be placed at the margins of society and social discourse. My point is wouldn't that reinforce the resentment aspect of their identity and ideology?

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So, in essence, business as usual as far as the treatment of extremists go; social condemnation and imprisonment in case of violent action

fascism should be violently opposed.

[Machismo]

Starting here on MMO-C when the Trumpers crawl from under their rocks is not to engage these people. They are scum! We should stop feeding their extreme right ideology on this website. Hey, we had discussion about the bubble and what Trumpers love to say is this some leftie hangout on these forums. I would LOVE to have discussion with reasonable people, but as in IRL there are none here. They are radical, they are conspiracists crazies, they are full of hate to people who don't believe their ideology.

You cannot reason with these people.

Here's the thing:

As has been shown on this site, almost all the Trumpsters around here are actually foreign agitators. We saw hat with the EU purge a couple years ago. We saw it when all the Russian trolls were outed. We see it when people who claim to be from places like Florida, Nevada, or Washington, are actually from Belgium, Romania, and Norway.

That's why I have simplified my responses in such cases. Trump is a Nazi, and those who deign to shill for him, are defending Nazis. That's how low they are to me.

The real issue will be with actual human interactions. How we proceed will be important, and we should be willing to sacrifice our long-term relationships. Either they seek redemption, or we cease communication with them. Fuck sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner with your racist uncle. There's no need to have false pleasantries with that douchebag you knew in high school, who has a fucking MAGA flag on his pickup truck.

It goes even further... stop doing business with any company whose executives/owners support Trump. Stop buying Goya products. Stop using Oracle software. Don't buy a MyPillow (not that any sane person ever would).

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I can see how or why you'd think that. The underpinning thought is that these people think of themselves as some idiotic silent majority whose voices have been oppressed or smth, at least that's the koolaid Trump has had them drink.

With that in mind, and in light of the gargantuan task that is to convince them otherwise, they would, eventually, be placed at the margins of society and social discourse. My point is wouldn't that reinforce the resentment aspect of their identity and ideology?

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So, in essence, business as usual as far as the treatment of extremists go; social condemnation and imprisonment in case of violent action

The difference, is actually following through on it.

My shitty, fascist mother will die without ever being able to see her grandkids, again. It doesn't matter if it's 6 months from now, or 20 years from now. People seem to want to get sentimental when it comes to personally following through on socially ostracizing people, but we need to be more resolved in how we deal with them.

[gondrin]

I am hoping that they do introduce Articles of Impeachment very soon as it will most assuredly pass both chambers. Thing is, I don't think Pence would pardon Trump anymore after this stunt because of the fact that Trump will backstab anyone.

Biggest thing is to not eject him from office for mental unfitness even though it is a sure thing as that can be used as evidence in his eventual criminal court dates.

[Kryctos]

But they don't disappear do they?

That's the problem with extremists and their ignorant followers who are utterly convinced of the righteousness of their ideology isn't it? It's nearly impossible to reason them out of their bubble, and acknowledging everyone's lack of patience to commit to that effort, one is left with very few and serious options.

I dunno, you either make it unlawful for this sort of ideology to exist thus making them eligible for imprisonment, as opposed to waiting for them to resort to violence; or that "disappear from society" means their death.

That or it means that they're relegated to the margins of society. But one needs to consider the ramifications of marginalized people, no?

We should not criminalize ideology, we already have laws to punish the criminal behaviour of some of the adherents of this ideology. We just need to apply those laws and not just give them a slap on the wrist or carte blanche to continue committing crimes

[Breccia]

Deputy NSA resigns in protest.

Mulvaney resigns in protest--

"Wait, I thought he left a while ago?"

He left Chief of Staff, became some kind of ambassador apparently.

I can’t stay here, not after yesterday. You can’t look at that yesterday and say I want to be a part of that in any way shape or form.

What we're seeing is a very interesting line in the sand some Trump employees have drawn. I know every step is significant, but to be fine with everything Trump did up to the point of inciting a riot, but suddenly being upset when the riot happens?

Hey, remember when Trump pardoned people who violently broke into federal property? Ain't nobody resigned after that one.

So congrats to the departing WH members who have announced "hey, I'm only 90% Lawful Evil. I supported Trump in literally everything he did because I didn't think he'd actually succeed". You've only bought second row seats to the End of Democracy concert. Leaving before the encore doesn't change the fact that you paid for a ticket.

[Machismo]

Deputy NSA resigns in protest.

Mulvaney resigns in protest--

"Wait, I thought he left a while ago?"

He left Chief of Staff, became some kind of ambassador apparently.



What we're seeing is a very interesting line in the sand some Trump employees have drawn. I know every step is significant, but to be fine with everything Trump did up to the point of inciting a riot, but suddenly being upset when the riot happens?

Hey, remember when Trump pardoned people who violently broke into federal property? Ain't nobody resigned after that one.

So congrats to the departing WH members who have announced "hey, I'm only 90% Lawful Evil. I supported Trump in literally everything he did because I didn't think he'd actually succeed". You've only bought second row seats to the End of Democracy concert. Leaving before the encore doesn't change the fact that you paid for a ticket.

Considering they supported him for 3 years, 50 weeks out of 4 years... I'd say that makes them. just a hair over 99% evil, not counting their shitlord behavior before he was elected.

[Breccia]

This reads like an OP ED but it happens to be an OP I agree with. Especially the bolded at the end.

It is an ironic, poetic ending to the raucous reign of Donald J. Trump: Enabled — and enabling — Republicans put the final knives in their beloved, besieged, beaten president:

• It was often conservative judges appointed by Trump who rejected his desperate lawsuits to overturn the election results state by state.
• It was Trump appointees on the Supreme Court, who he assumed would do his bidding, who rejected his pleas for Supreme salvation.
• It was the Georgia governor he almost single-handedly helped put in office, and Trump supporters below him, who refused his unprecedented pressure to flip the state his way.
• It was Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who turned a blind eye and silent mouth to countless Trump actions he privately ridiculed, who took to the Senate floor to insist that Congress certify President-elect Biden's victory.
• It was Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), a key Trump ally on the Hill and a 2024 contender, who loudly condemned what Trump is doing — a sign that some believe Trump, as ex-president, won't be the scary political threat he hopes to be.
• It was scores of Republicans, most of whom sucked up to Trump for four-plus years, who voted against final pleas to reject the election of Joe Biden. (At 3 a.m., the House voted 282-138 against an objection to Pennsylvania's electoral votes; the Senate shut down the same objection, 92-7, just after midnight.)
• And it was his own vice president, Mike Pence, who will go down in history as one of the most loyal supplicants to serve in his office, who rejected intense pressure to violate the Constitution to deny Biden his office.

There are no heroes here — courage brimmed only at the precipice. But a few people who watched the system breach, in the end, did not allow it to break. Only in time will we learn the reward or consequences of their actions.

To rephrase from my last post, if this is where you decided enough was enough, then you are still part of the problem, supported a fascist dictator, and you're a coward. Only difference is you changed your mind at the last second. You get no kudos, no thanks, no "well at least he didn't..." You just get nominated for the Acadamy Awards of Fuckery, instead of winning.

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Considering they supported him for 3 years, 50 weeks out of 4 years... I'd say that makes them. just a hair over 99% evil, not counting their shitlord behavior before he was elected.

The exact number is debatable, they got an A- and A or an A+ in Fascism 101. They just didn't make honor roll.