Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

CNN reports that people who know what they're talking about, including Barr, have told Trump not to pardon himself.

Also...Trump may have shot himself in the bone spurs. If you had asked me Jan 1 if Pence would pardon Trump, I would have said "no question". I can't be so sure anymore. Trump inspired a riot, and Pence had to threaten to 25th him to make that chopped-up-editing video and call the National Guard. Handing the Oval Office over to Pence for a week, or less for that matter, isn't payment enough for a pardon -- not for inciting insurrection, at least. Pence might give a partial pardon for anything tax-related or for conspiring with Russia, but inciting an insurrection that killed people? Pence might just say "you get NOTHING good day sir!"

Trump might do it anyhow, of course, taking a great risk that oh good golly I hope he takes. Let's look at these three pieces of information:

1) The 5th Amendment prevents you from saying things that might incriminate you. Therefore, in theory, Trump could not refuse to take the stand for any crime for which he's pardoned himself.

But.

2) He could therefore be forced to admit facts under oath with no way to protect himself, facts that incriminate others, such as his employees.

Which would lead to:

3) Trump could be prosecuted for state crimes...after these facts are put under oath by Trump himself. Then Trump's self-pardon could be challenged, while leaving his statements under oath.

3a) Alternative fucked: Trump could be forced to challenge his own self-pardon to avoid the stand. And my penis can only get so erect on that one.

Biden won't pardon Trump. That ship has sailed. Pence...not sure, but Trump would have to take a big chance and hand the helm over to a captain who was debating making Trump walk the plank. And the Republican Party is not 100% ready to forgive or forget.

And yet, that's his best option. It was a much better option until a week ago. Then Trump failed at everything.

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So we've talked about the 2017 inauguartion before. Let's add to that.

The Washington DC AG says that the Trump campaign paid nearly $50,000 of a debt to the Trump Organization. Meaning Trump was able to take campaign funds and just keep them for himself.

This adds to existing DC lawsuits against the Trump campaign for acting like Trump's "charity". The one that was so illegal it was shut down.

Not only are these charges not pardonable, but I suspect there's wiggle room for the AG to add punative damages.

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Legal Eagle released a video about "Can Twitter Ban Trump?"

To give you a hint as to the results: the video is forty-five seconds long.

[Kathranis]

Also...Trump may have shot himself in the bone spurs.

My friend and I were talking earlier about how utterly dogshit Trump's strategy has been.

Just think. In November he could have simply accepted the results, bowed out, and retreated to lick his wounds and try again in 2024, or build a media empire.

Instead he decided to throw a prolonged tantrum and tear everything down around him. Now he's fractured the Republican party, made enemies of the GOP, alienated allies in the media, deplatformed himself, gotten himself impeached a second time, and made himself vulnerable to even more criminal charges.

[zorkuus]

My friend and I were talking earlier about how utterly dogshit Trump's strategy has been.

Just think. In November he could have simply accepted the results, bowed out, and retreated to lick his wounds and try again in 2024, or build a media empire.

Instead he decided to throw a prolonged tantrum and tear everything down around him. Now he's fractured the Republican party, made enemies of the GOP, alienated allies in the media, deplatformed himself, gotten himself impeached a second time, and made himself vulnerable to even more criminal charges.

What strategy? He's just a narcissist who got shocked by defeat. There's no strategy, only panic.

[Twdft]

My friend and I were talking earlier about how utterly dogshit Trump's strategy has been.

Just think. In November he could have simply accepted the results, bowed out, and retreated to lick his wounds and try again in 2024, or build a media empire.

Instead he decided to throw a prolonged tantrum and tear everything down around him. Now he's fractured the Republican party, made enemies of the GOP, alienated allies in the media, deplatformed himself, gotten himself impeached a second time, and made himself vulnerable to even more criminal charges.

Let me present a conspiracy theory which only needs one assumption to be true: Trump is Putins puppet. Putin knows Trump will never get elected again due to being in jail or keeling over (fatass is 78 in 2024) so he orders him to destroy as much as he can on the way out. Would also explain his total failures for the last 4 years. Trump didn't have to be a master mind villain just fail at everything and Putin benefits laughing his ass off.

[PACOX]

Let me present a conspiracy theory which only needs one assumption to be true: Trump is Putins puppet. Putin knows Trump will never get elected again due to being in jail or keeling over (fatass is 78 in 2024) so he orders him to destroy as much as he can on the way out. Would also explain his total failures for the last 4 years. Trump didn't have to be a master mind villain just fail at everything and Putin benefits laughing his ass off.

I think it's simpler than that.

If you are Russia (I mean they have a minimal involvement) all you really need to is be the echo chamber for MAGA Hats, Qnon, and their cult leader. When they post some nonsense you say they are right, maybe they them how others are wrong - make them feel good and that others are conspiring against them. Maybe send them some misleading articles. Boost their by telling you that you support them. Then turn around and tell others "hey, look at this nut job!“ Amplify what others already believe, grab a fifth of vodka, kick back as the nonsense unfolds. People will do the rest without any of them" working for you".

I mean we already they did (do?) stuff like set up fact rallies of opposition right next to each other or spend all day spreading memes.

[Pann]

Let me present a conspiracy theory which only needs one assumption to be true: Trump is Putins puppet. Putin knows Trump will never get elected again due to being in jail or keeling over (fatass is 78 in 2024) so he orders him to destroy as much as he can on the way out. Would also explain his total failures for the last 4 years. Trump didn't have to be a master mind villain just fail at everything and Putin benefits laughing his ass off.

Trump is far too egotistical to be anyone's puppet and there are too many checks and balances that would stop manipulation of the president. Putin is a lucky benefactor of Trump's bruised ego.

[david0925]

I think it's simpler than that.

If you are Russia (I mean they have a minimal involvement) all you really need to is be the echo chamber for MAGA Hats, Qnon, and their cult leader. When they post some nonsense you say they are right, maybe they them how others are wrong - make them feel good and that others are conspiring against them. Maybe send them some misleading articles. Boost their by telling you that you support them. Then turn around and tell others "hey, look at this nut job!“ Amplify what others already believe, grab a fifth of vodka, kick back as the nonsense unfolds. People will do the rest without any of them" working for you".

I mean we already they did (do?) stuff like set up fact rallies of opposition right next to each other or spend all day spreading memes.

I mean yes, they just need to act like regular internet people (not being sarcastic here). Support without any evidence in an echo chamber or deny while calling names to incite flame. This is what's so scary about the internet when you are so much less accountable for what you say. I'm not opposed to humoring some conspiracy theories but it's really annoying when they can't provide a single piece of concrete evidence and resort to statements like "it's so obvious and everywhere. I'm not doing your homework for you".

[Benggaul]

Trump is far too egotistical to be anyone's puppet

I would argue that his narcissism makes it easier to make him a puppet. Blow enough smoke up his ass and he'll do anything you ask him to, especially if you frame it as something that would benefit him. He's not particularly bright.

[postman1782]

I would argue that his narcissism makes it easier to make him a puppet. Blow enough smoke up his ass and he'll do anything you ask him too, especially if you frame it as something that would benefit him. He's not particularly bright.

Yep, guarantee Putin has literally done anything to stroke his ego to get Trump to do anything Putin wants.

[jonnysensible]

jesus we still doing this putin stuff. Trump is an all american retard, born and bred. His sickness isnt from an outside malign influence, its all american.

[Benggaul]

jesus we still doing this putin stuff. Trump is an all american retard, born and bred. His sickness isnt from an outside malign influence, its all american.

Not sure what you mean by "this PuTin sTUfF!" but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that some of Trump's actions in office were done at the behest of buddy Putin.

[Pann]

I would argue that his narcissism makes it easier to make him a puppet. Blow enough smoke up his ass and he'll do anything you ask him to, especially if you frame it as something that would benefit him. He's not particularly bright.

I would not use "not particularly bright" to describe Trump, he is self-obsessed, selfish and just generally a nasty piece of work but I don't think that he is unintelligent. However I have already addressed the point you are making in the post you replied to.

In order for Putin to manipulate Trump in such a manner it would require that the people around him to be stupid enough to miss Putin's manipulation or corrupt enough to ignore it whilst at the same time keeping the details from leaking out.

[jonnysensible]

Not sure what you mean by "this PuTin sTUfF!" but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that some of Trump's actions in office were done at the behest of buddy Putin.

garbage. he did it because its what trump and the gop want (or what fox news want). (and usually what capital wants)

the refusal to even look at your own toxic political culture and structural problems is baffling. 'it must be the foreigners' attitude. Putin secretly is controlling the world. You might as well join Qanon and say the jews are doing it. there is no difference.

no its 50 years of courting racists as an electoral strategy and hyper capitalism.

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I would not use "not particularly bright" to describe Trump, he is self-obsessed, selfish and just generally a nasty piece of work but I don't think that he is unintelligent.

hes thick as pigshit but was born into so much money he couldnt lose.

[Felya]

Trump is far too egotistical to be anyone's puppet and there are too many checks and balances that would stop manipulation of the president. Putin is a lucky benefactor of Trump's bruised ego.

His ego is why he is so susceptible...

[Breccia]

What strategy? He's just a narcissist who got shocked by defeat. There's no strategy, only panic.

I respectfully disagree.

Trump is clearly trying to keep as much of the population with him as possible. Remember, this is a man who needs to project the image of "trodden-upon underdog" to get the blue collar support -- yes, I know he was born a gazillionaire, that's still the image he needs. That's why everything's rigged against him, even when he's in charge.

The strategy, then, was to protest what Trump likely knew was an honest and legal election -- simply to keep that support up. "They took something from you," Trump says, "you're the silent majority, you actually won, but they took it. Send me money."

Did Trump think he would win the election, before the election? Yes. He almost certainly did.

After the election, did Trump think he had a real shot of illegally seizing the WH and, somehow, have everyone accept it and have another four-year term? No, not even Trump is that delusional. Although some of his rabid fanbase are, which Trump needs. But he did need enough of them to create an army of money. People to watch his TV show. People to donate to his campaign, which he would steal from and keep the money for himself. People to buy his brand. People to stay at his hotels. And most importantly, enough of a rabid fanbase that, in 2022 and 2024, he can tell other politicians "Give me money and fame, and I will tell my rabid fanbase to vote for you. Otherwise I will label you a traitor and you'll never win."

Look, Trump is a narcissist to the point of insantiy, might be suffering mentally, and is too fat to live long. But this isn't panic. This is acting. This is lying. And Trump is very good at lying -- he does almost nothing else. If anything, I suspect the panic was when the crowd went further than he expected. Trump might very well have seen the power he was trying to cultivate nose-dive like his net worth when the crowd he inspired to commit insurrection actually did it. Now he has Twitter cut off. Now he has Pence mad at him, McConnell mad at him, and a few others. Now he might not get that pardon or that TV show.

If that's the panic you meant, then we are agreed.

[Kaleredar]

I would not use "not particularly bright" to describe Trump, he is self-obsessed, selfish and just generally a nasty piece of work but I don't think that he is unintelligent. However I have already addressed the point you are making in the post you replied to.

In order for Putin to manipulate Trump in such a manner it would require that the people around him to be stupid enough to miss Putin's manipulation or corrupt enough to ignore it whilst at the same time keeping the details from leaking out.

Trump surrounded himself with spineless yes-men loyal to him. Any of them showing backbone or integrity were swiftly Fired or asked to resign.

As for “keeping the details from leaking out,” just look at the first impeachment/the mueller report. It’s pretty obvious that Russia helped trump and the GOP financially and in disinformation through pushing stinted news and conspiracy theories as well as sewing discord about the democrats.

Trump is no stranger to “you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours” and has no compunction about doing whatever he wants to maintain power. We know his campaign was in extensive contact with Russia, so I really don’t find it too far beyond the realm of possibility that he was acting with the intention of giving Russia certain things geopolitically if it meant they’d help his campaign.

What trump perhaps didn’t know... or perhaps didn’t care about... is that Russia correctly assessed that a trump presidency, even beyond any direct favors, would lead to an external and internal weakening of the United States, due to trumps colossal, malignant incompetence.

[Pann]

His ego is why he is so susceptible...

He might be susceptible but the people around him - The White House staff, the various agency and services, etc? Are all them too stupid to notice any attempts at manipulation? I have a hard time believing that no-one would spot Trump doing Putin's bidding.

[Mormolyce]

I remember when they first made the politics subforum to isolate political discussion from the main Gen-OT, I had mixed feelings because on the one hand I could see how people who just wanted to talk about basketball or something had their threads swamped by constant political topics - but on the other, it quickly became a de facto segregation in the userbase, with most of the Trump supporters fleeing from the politics section where they were clearly outnumbered (and outmatched, but you know, that wasn't new). That's not good for healthy discussion (or for, let's be honest, mean-spirited jerks like me who mostly hung around at this site to mercilessly mock disingenuous douchenozzles in a place where they could see it).

But in the last few years there's been a concerted push to close up any discussion of Trump in an even smaller box with the strict enforcement of megathreads. Which is deeply ridiculous, because the forum needed to face the facts five years ago - Trump is the giant reeking turd in the middle of the room. There's no talking around it, the stink permeates every discussion. Never mind the armies of right wing culture warriors online that made it their mission in life to politicise every topic, from which Star Wars film you like to a fucking viral pandemic. So it quickly became impossible to talk about anything non-political anyway because they dragged their politics into fucking everything.

And now it seems like the main politics subforum is a ghost town of locked threads while only the handful of approved megathreads keep churning. What's even the point of this tactic?

[Felya]

He might be susceptible but the people around him - The White House staff, the various agency and services, etc? Are all them too stupid to notice any attempts at manipulation? I have a hard time believing that no-one would spot Trump doing Putin's bidding.

If he is an egomaniac, why would he surround him self with contrarians?

[Pann]

Trump surrounded himself with spineless yes-men loyal to him. Any of them showing backbone or integrity were swiftly Fired or asked to resign.

As for “keeping the details from leaking out,” just look at the first impeachment/the mueller report. It’s pretty obvious that Russia helped trump and the GOP financially and in disinformation through pushing stinted news and conspiracy theories as well as sewing discord about the democrats.

Trump is no stranger to “you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours” and has no compunction about doing whatever he wants to maintain power. We know his campaign was in extensive contact with Russia, so I really don’t find it too far beyond the realm of possibility that he was acting with the intention of giving Russia certain things geopolitically if it meant they’d help his campaign.

What trump perhaps didn’t know... or perhaps didn’t care about... is that Russia correctly assessed that a trump presidency, even beyond any direct favors, would lead to an external and internal weakening of the United States, due to trumps colossal, malignant incompetence.

There's a huge difference between Russian involvement and the President of the United States doing what he is told by Putin which was the claim. You can certainly call into question the characters of Trump, his family and close associates but I think you do a massive disservice to those who have committed to serving the United States by indulging such claims.

In short, I believe there are enough good men and women in the US services to protect it from this happening.

Honestly there's enough shit that Trump has actually done without going down these kind of rabbit holes.