1. #65021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Awesome. Trump is about to kill more Americans than Nazis.
    I wasn't aware that Trump was responsible for all of the deaths.

  2. #65022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Technically that happened a long time ago. Around 100k of that total was from accidents and illness. Combat deaths (which includes deaths while a POW) were around 300k or so.
    Just to further confuse the point, Nazis killed Americans outside of WWII. Hell, a Nazi killed someone at Charlottesville.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I wasn't aware t--
    We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.
    Trump claims he had it under control as early as Jan 22. So...yeah, he can take credit for them. I mean, it was under control, right?

    Or, you could claim Trump wasn't in control, and my response will be "then he gets blamed for the deaths due to inaction" and I still win.

  3. #65023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I wasn't aware that Trump was responsible for all of the deaths.
    The buck stops where? The guy who defunded pandemic response team?

    Edit: Who could have predicted that Trump’s cuts to social programs, to give billionaires hand outs, would result in something like this... on yeah... everyone that isn’t a Trump supporter.

    Edit 2: Maybe the WHO being involved in China, was more important than Trump having a bank account in China. Yet, only one of those got cuts... it wasn’t Trump’s bank account in China...
    Last edited by Felya; 2021-01-19 at 06:52 AM.
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  4. #65024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yep, it only killed 400000... weather you think that’s a lot or a little, is simply your character as a human being.
    When discussing historical events, perspective is always required.

  5. #65025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The buck stops where?
    I'd also like to throw in that Trump made it clear Obama/Biden were responsible for deaths to outbreaks on their watch therefore Trump accepts the responsibility. And I still win.

    Sorry, @Kellhound but once Trump admits it's his responsibility, your point is no longer relevant. He invited the numbers to be placed on his doorstep when he put H1N1 on Biden's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    When discussing historical events, perspective is always required.
    That actually matches my comments perfectly. The perspective Trump has is "the President/Vice President were responsible for deaths tue to the outbreak". Maybe you disagree, but Trump fell on that sword himself. Sorry. I don't make the rules. I just see to it they're enforced.

  6. #65026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    When discussing historical events, perspective is always required.
    Yeah, when talking about 400k dead people, it’s important to remind us that it could be worse. Not could be better... but, could be worse... because it’s Trump’s fault and you are trying to defend him. It would have been better, if he didn’t defund pandemic response team... it would have been worse if... I am not sure... what would Trump have to do worse? Scream liberate as his goons attack nurses in the forgotten ‘I want a hair cut’ riots? He did that...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  7. #65027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Just to further confuse the point, Nazis killed Americans outside of WWII. Hell, a Nazi killed someone at Charlottesville.

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    Trump claims he had it under control as early as Jan 22. So...yeah, he can take credit for them. I mean, it was under control, right?

    Or, you could claim Trump wasn't in control, and my response will be "then he gets blamed for the deaths due to inaction" and I still win.
    Except that Trump was not responsible for how the states reacted. Or the cities. Or individual citizens. The President has a significant amount of power, but he does not have a monopoly on it.

  8. #65028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Except that Trump was not responsible
    He said he was. See above posts. I still win.

  9. #65029
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I wasn't aware that Trump was responsible for all of the deaths.
    Some people learn very very very very slow, but hey, you finally learned something. Took you almost a year, but finally becoming aware of something is better than never becoming aware.

  10. #65030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Except that Trump was not responsible for how the states reacted. Or the cities. Or individual citizens. The President has a significant amount of power, but he does not have a monopoly on it.
    Was he responsible for posting “LIBERATE” so people defied the rules put in place by the states? Was he activly discouraging following state rules and encouraging doing the opposite? Did Trump spend nearly 100 million to shit chloroquine to Florida, as a reword for now following the rules set by CDC? Do you think pro wrestling is an essential service?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  11. #65031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    The buck stops where? The guy who defunded pandemic response team?

    Edit: Who could have predicted that Trump’s cuts to social programs, to give billionaires hand outs, would result in something like this... on yeah... everyone that isn’t a Trump supporter.

    Edit 2: Maybe the WHO being involved in China, was more important than Trump having a bank account in China. Yet, only one of those got cuts... it wasn’t Trump’s bank account in China...
    The buck stops at many locations. Failure or success does not hang on any one person.

  12. #65032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The buck st--
    Hey remember when Trump blamed Obama for the ebola outbreak?

    I still win.

  13. #65033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The buck stops at many locations. Failure or success does not hang on any one person.
    Was Trump screaming liberate, to defy state and CDC regulations? Is that his fault? Did Trump defund pandemic response team? Is that his fault? Did Trump spend millions on an unproven pet drug, instead of supplying masks and ventilators?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #65034
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I'd also like to throw in that Trump made it clear Obama/Biden were responsible for deaths to outbreaks on their watch therefore Trump accepts the responsibility. And I still win.

    Sorry, @Kellhound but once Trump admits it's his responsibility, your point is no longer relevant. He invited the numbers to be placed on his doorstep when he put H1N1 on Biden's.



    That actually matches my comments perfectly. The perspective Trump has is "the President/Vice President were responsible for deaths tue to the outbreak". Maybe you disagree, but Trump fell on that sword himself. Sorry. I don't make the rules. I just see to it they're enforced.
    Ok, then who would have been able to prevent Covid-19 from killing anyone in the US?

  15. #65035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Ok, then who would have been able to prevent Covid-19 from killing anyone in the US?
    Lets stop talking about inconvenient reality and imagine stuff instead.
    /s

  16. #65036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    He just lied about the severity of the disease... then attacked governors that were trying to stop the disease... how can he be to blame for people not following the rules set by the state? All he did is actively encouraged defying said rules... going as far as to threaten NY with not getting vaccines, because he didn’t like their rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Ok, then who would have been able to prevent Covid-19 from killing anyone in the US?
    Anyone? That’s a steep drop from 400000... Obama put in place the pandemic response team and had millions more have insurance... it’s pretty obvious who would have been better and saved more lives... anyone...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #65037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yeah, when talking about 400k dead people, it’s important to remind us that it could be worse. Not could be better... but, could be worse... because it’s Trump’s fault and you are trying to defend him. It would have been better, if he didn’t defund pandemic response team... it would have been worse if... I am not sure... what would Trump have to do worse? Scream liberate as his goons attack nurses in the forgotten ‘I want a hair cut’ riots? He did that...
    I never said he did anything correctly, only that he does not shoulder all the blame. And yes, it is important to remember the US survived a much more devastating viral outbreak over 100 years ago.

  18. #65038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Ok, then wh--
    Hey remember when Trump blamed Obama for not having COVID tests?

    If it was Obama's job to provide such tests -- yes, I know that's impossible, but I am quoting Trump here, that's not imporatant -- when he was President, then what's Trump's job when he's in charge?

    Trump blamed Obama for not preparing the country. He, therefore, has personally taken responsibility -- by virtue of saying it's the President's job. Which he was.

    I still win.

    Give up. It's over. Once Trump admits it's his responsibility -- either by personally saying he had it under control, bragging about how good the numbers were, or by blaming a President for an outbreak that happened/didn't happen yet -- then your opinion on the subject is no longer relevant.

    There is nothing, nothing, you can say that strips Trump from the responsibility he volunteered to take. Even if he didn't realize it.

    Your further comments on the topic, being irrelevant, may be directed to the green bars on either edge of the window.

  19. #65039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    He said he was. See above posts. I still win.
    So everything he claims is true? Or only the thing you want to be true?

  20. #65040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I never said he did anything correctly, only that he does not shoulder all the blame. And yes, it is important to remember the US survived a much more devastating viral outbreak over 100 years ago.
    Yeah, he does... he removed our ability to respond to the disease... lied to the public so we don’t take it as seriously... discouraged following state rules... was pushing conspiracy theories and spent millions that could have helped people, on a drug that did nothing.

    What worse could Trump have done? Exclude countries in EU that have his golf courses from a travel ban? Yeah, his initial travel ban did that too...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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