Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Kellhound]

Yeah, when talking about 400k dead people, it’s important to remind us that it could be worse. Not could be better... but, could be worse... because it’s Trump’s fault and you are trying to defend him. It would have been better, if he didn’t defund pandemic response team... it would have been worse if... I am not sure... what would Trump have to do worse? Scream liberate as his goons attack nurses in the forgotten ‘I want a hair cut’ riots? He did that...

I never said he did anything correctly, only that he does not shoulder all the blame. And yes, it is important to remember the US survived a much more devastating viral outbreak over 100 years ago.

[Breccia]

Ok, then wh--

Hey remember when Trump blamed Obama for not having COVID tests?

If it was Obama's job to provide such tests -- yes, I know that's impossible, but I am quoting Trump here, that's not imporatant -- when he was President, then what's Trump's job when he's in charge?

Trump blamed Obama for not preparing the country. He, therefore, has personally taken responsibility -- by virtue of saying it's the President's job. Which he was.

I still win.

Give up. It's over. Once Trump admits it's his responsibility -- either by personally saying he had it under control, bragging about how good the numbers were, or by blaming a President for an outbreak that happened/didn't happen yet -- then your opinion on the subject is no longer relevant.

There is nothing, nothing, you can say that strips Trump from the responsibility he volunteered to take. Even if he didn't realize it.

Your further comments on the topic, being irrelevant, may be directed to the green bars on either edge of the window.

[Kellhound]

He said he was. See above posts. I still win.

So everything he claims is true? Or only the thing you want to be true?

[Felya]

I never said he did anything correctly, only that he does not shoulder all the blame. And yes, it is important to remember the US survived a much more devastating viral outbreak over 100 years ago.

Yeah, he does... he removed our ability to respond to the disease... lied to the public so we don’t take it as seriously... discouraged following state rules... was pushing conspiracy theories and spent millions that could have helped people, on a drug that did nothing.

What worse could Trump have done? Exclude countries in EU that have his golf courses from a travel ban? Yeah, his initial travel ban did that too...

[Kellhound]

Some people learn very very very very slow, but hey, you finally learned something. Took you almost a year, but finally becoming aware of something is better than never becoming aware.

So, there was someone who would have prevented any Americans from dying?

[Felya]

So everything he claims is true? Or only the thing you want to be true?

Him taking credit, isn’t a matter of truth. Claiming he lied when saying... ‘The buck stops here’... doesn’t help your case... it simply shows the reason why you are defending him.

[beanman12345]

Ok, then who would have been able to prevent Covid-19 from killing anyone in the US?

I mean, even trump knows the answer to this question... so, what's your excuse?

[Felya]

So, there was someone who would have prevented any Americans from dying?

You keep saying any, instead of less than 400k... why is that?

[Kellhound]

Was he responsible for posting “LIBERATE” so people defied the rules put in place by the states? Was he activly discouraging following state rules and encouraging doing the opposite? Did Trump spend nearly 100 million to shit chloroquine to Florida, as a reword for now following the rules set by CDC? Do you think pro wrestling is an essential service?

I was not aware that he convinced every American to ignore state rules.

[Breccia]

then attacked governors that were trying to stop the disease

Ah, yes, the push, led by Trump, to re-open all the businesses, to pack people into churches, to not wear masks, to take hydroyoudo, etc etc.

Man, there's so much evidence this is Trump's fault. I mean, literally today barring time zones, Trump tried to lift travel restrictions during a death spike. Something he has unilateral control over.

Can you imagine anyone, such as a Trump defender, trying to suggest Trump has not only taken responsibiilty, but by his words and actions made things worse? Especially someone who, realizing they'd lost by a score of Trump to Zero (also his polling numbers), immediately tried to move the goalposts to "well what would you have done?" That's the argument you make when you know you can't win.

[Felya]

I mean, even trump knows the answer to this question... so, what's your excuse?

That claiming the impossible, that no one would die, is an attempt to hide the reality that there is nothing Trump could have done worse.

[Felya]

I was not aware that he convinced every American to ignore state rules.

Every American didn’t... people who are not Trump supporters, followed the guidelines...

See... nurse wearing mask... Trump supporter marching around her, without one:

[beanman12345]

So, there was someone who would have prevented any Americans from dying?

Ahhh so you still didn't learn anything, damn, oh well. Sorry, while there is several vaccine's for Covid, there will probably never be one for this.

[Breccia]

Every American didn’t... people who are not Trump supporters, followed the guidelines...

The funny part? If Trump had listened to scientists, imposed actual travel restrictions that made a difference, not just encouraged mask use but used his federal authority to force the issue, told people to be careful, laid off the bleach he was huffing, or any of the dozens of other things...while also saying about H1N1 what @Kellhound is saying now, @Kellhound might have had a valid point.

Too bad he was defending Trump, who personally and directly refuted @Kellhound 's points. He's basically asking "Well who could have reduced deaths in the Civil War better than General Lee?"

[beanman12345]

I was not aware that he convinced every American to ignore state rules.

Yes we get it, you are not aware. Stop with the spamming.

[Felya]

Ahhh so you still didn't learn anything, damn, oh well. Sorry, while there is several vaccine's for Covid, there will probably never be one for this.

I do enjoy people defending Trump, by using the people who followed the rules and ignored Trump’s lies, as an indication of Trump’s success. Imagine how much worse covid would be, if Trump wasn’t the least popular president in US history. It’s like... if he had the popularity of Bill Clinton and did the same exact thing... millions would be dead...

[Kellhound]

You keep saying any, instead of less than 400k... why is that?

Because what started this was the putting of all the blame for all the deaths on one man, Trump. It is all but certain he is responsible for an increase in the number of deaths by his actions, but the true impact is unknown.

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That claiming the impossible, that no one would die, is an attempt to hide the reality that there is nothing Trump could have done worse.

I would not go so far as to say that either. He would just have seen it as a challenge to prove you wrong.

[Felya]

Because what started this was the putting of all the blame for all the deaths on one man, Trump. It is all but certain he is responsible for an increase in the number of deaths by his actions, but the true impact is unknown.

Yes, all of the deaths are on Trump... not him individually killing them all... The impact of Trump defunding the pandemic response team and then lying about the virus... is immeasurable... it is so bad, that measuring it, wouldn’t be possible... fair enough?

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I would not go so far as to say that either. He would just have seen it as a challenge to prove you wrong.

No shit you wouldn’t go that far... you are the one pulling the shit... What challenge? No one is arguing 0 people would die... no one is arguing that everyone listened to Trump... You argue in indefensible absolutes, because Trump is indefensible. It’s blatant...

[Kaleredar]

It also means Covid-19 has killed less than 1/5 per 100,000 of the population as the 1918 H1N1 flu outbreak in the US.

Well I would hope that in the year 2020 that we have a better grasp on medicine than they did in 19 fucking 18, before things like penicillin were even discovered.

The 400,000 dead Americans is a damning condemnation of trumps absolute mismanagement of the situation. These people did not need to die, but they did in no small part due to a two-bit conman trying to turn a lethal virus into a political carnival to benefit him, at the expense of every single American.

The only silver lining is that it failed on him spectacularly, and we will soon have an actual qualified adult in the White House to oversee getting the country through it, nearly 10 months after the fact.

[Breccia]

Oh, and let's not forget this bit: the COVID task force press conference of April 13.

1) "Everything we did was right" -- Trump said that, in public.

2) This part:

At one point — after praising himself for implementing travel restrictions on China at the end of January and griping about being “brutalized” by the press — Trump paused to boast with a half-smirk, “But I guess I’m doing okay because, to the best of my knowledge, I’m the president of the United States, despite the things that are said.”

3) This part:

Shortly after Trump played the video, CBS’s Paula Reid pressed him on how his administration had not used the month of February to ready itself for the coming virus, after sharply limiting travel from China.

“You didn’t use it to prepare hospitals, you didn’t use it to ramp up testing,” Reid said, before Trump cut her off, calling her “disgraceful.”

Reid forged ahead. “What did you do with the time that you bought, the month of February?” she asked, as Trump talked over her. “That video has a gap — the entire month of February. . . . What did your administration do in February with the time that your travel ban bought you?”

“A lot. A lot,” said Trump, without offering any specifics, before turning his frustration back on Reid.

“You know you’re a fake,” he said.

At another moment, seemingly eager to assert his dominance over the nation’s governors, Trump declared incorrectly, “When somebody is the president of the United States, the authority is total.”

Later, CNN’s Kaitlan Collins followed up: “You said when someone is president of the United States, their authority is total. That is not true. Who told you that?”

The president declined to answer, saying, “The governors need us” before abruptly silencing Collins with a sharp, “Enough.”

That's right: the famous "the authority is total" statement was made, by Trump, about COVID, about state governments.

It no longer matters what @Kellhound says about state goverments and whether people obeyed them or not. Trump refuted that point. And used the exact phrase "the authority is total" when talking about himself.

There is no sane way to continue defending Trump on this one. @Kellhound 's point is unwinnable, and only unwinnable because it was used to defend Trump, who personally and directly refuted the very argument @Kellhound is trying to make.

I still win.