1. #66001
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Can they take his property in bankruptcy? I thought they were assets of his businesses for loophole purposes
    His share of said businesses is an asset, and they can take that. This would therefore strip him of the properties for even less than they're worth.

    Remember, banks aren't charities. They didn't let Trump personally guarantee a loan, if they knew Trump could not pay it back. There are all kinds of loopholes, true, but when you get a loan from a bank, you sign a contract, and they can/will enforce it. Deutsche Bank knows Trump has assets and partial ownership of assets. They also know he can't just give them to Donnie Dum-Dum Jr and shrug, saying "well I guess I'm broke...until you look the other way". Those people didn't get where they were playing fair, but they also didn't get where they were by giving billions to idiots and getting nothing in return.

    If dodging loans with bankruptcy was that easy, everyone would do it (and therefore the rules would change). Imagine if I borrowed $1000 in cash secured with a $1000 computer. I give the cash to @cubby and also the computer, go back to the bank and say "Well I can't pay you". Not only would they take me to court to get the money by completely legal means, I suspect I'd be criminally liable for fraud for giving away the collateral. If @cubby knew what I was doing, he'd be an accomplice, so odds are he'd give the money and/or computer back or he's in trouble too.

    Trump had six businesses that lost a ton of value and they could not pay their creditors. He was partial owner, but he didn't sign the contracts on his behalf, but his companies'. That's closer to the loophole you asked about. But as long as Trump has assets, especially the ones Deutsche Bank told him not to give away or sell, he can't just walk away from this one and claim poverty. Nor can he simply hide it under the rug and hope for the best.

    If, for example, Deutsche Bank comes to reclaim the loan and Trump declares bankruptcy, the courts will decide who gets what share of Trump's owned businesses. If he tries to defraud a bank, Deutsche Bank will bring him up on charges, and still get their money from his family and businesses. People who give out loans aren't typically forgiving sorts that will say "Well, I guess we don't get that billion back, womp-womp" and shrug. They say "you owe us that billion, and if necessary, we'll get it from your grandchildren, now open wide we're going for those fillings".

  2. #66002
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-from-office/


    So impeaching Trump isn't just more popular than not impeaching him, it's majority popular.
    Technically, the correct statement is a majority wanted to remove him from office, not want to remove him, as he is already out of office.

  3. #66003
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    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-02-09 at 05:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #66004
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Sorry you don't care about being correct. Plus, it is incorrect to say "no one cares", as a significant portion of the US population does. What you likely meant was "no one who's opinion I care about cares".

    Oh, and that poll shows that only 47% think he should be convicted.

  5. #66005
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Technically, the correct statement is a majority wanted to remove him from office, not want to remove him, as he is already out of office.
    And technically the majority never wanted trump to be in office anyway, and yet four years of “well how bad could he be?” later we’re draining his swamp clogged with 400,000 dead Americans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Sorry you don't care about being correct. Plus, it is incorrect to say "no one cares", as a significant portion of the US population does. What you likely meant was "no one who's opinion I care about cares".

    Oh, and that poll shows that only 47% think he should be convicted.
    ...against the 40% that think he shouldn’t. So more people believe he should be officially removed. It’s not even particularly close.

    Moreover, there’s a decent chunk of republicans within that 40% that believe the insane conspiracy that Biden didn’t actually win. So clearly their opinion on the matter is tainted with an enormous grain of “nothing this person thinks on the matter is worth a rat’s ass because they live in a fairy dreamworld”

    Factoring them into the equation would be like putting up a poll asking a group of people whether they’d rather take a cruise to Europe or Japan and including a contingent of flat earthers who didn’t think it was possible to sail to Japan.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-02-09 at 08:18 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #66006
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What kind of billionaire is Trump? Self proclaimed?
    This deserves some discussion.

    So, there are types of billionaires, including
    a) those that have $1 billion or more, and
    b) those that have $1 billion or more more than they owe

    Trump is likely to face several powerful groups, not the last of which is Deutsche Bank, coming for the money Trump promised them with contracts that not even Trump can get out of...until he declares personal bankruptcy and basically loses everything. In other words, he's likely the first type. We have a rough idea how much his assets are worth, but he's pretty quiet about how much he owes -- and to whom. He fought for four years for that, the world's largest security risk, to be hidden from Congress. If he really had that much money, I can't imagine he'd need to hide it. Also, if he had that much money, I can't imagine banks would be reluctant to give him loans. Someone with money can be forced to pay. Someone without money cannot.

  7. #66007
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?

  8. #66008
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?
    Doesn’t that make Trump guilty?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  9. #66009
    Pandaren Monk Karrotlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?
    Since this is his SECOND impeachment, I'd say he already got his mulligan.

  10. #66010
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Doesn’t that make Trump guilty?
    No, the fact that he did it is what makes Trump guilty. None of these GOP are going to be voting to convict him. Rand Paul is just doodling on his notepad.

  11. #66011
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...TEM36CWW5Z7VKY

    Almost every senatorial eye in the chamber was glued to the screens as lead House manager Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) played a 13-minute video depicting the events of Jan. 6 to introduce the impeachment case against Trump — with a few notable exceptions.

    While the screen showed demonstrators marching on the Capitol, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) looked down at the pad of lined paper in his lap, where he had already begun doodling with a pencil. Behind him, Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) studied papers in his lap, taking only the tiniest glimpses at the screen to his right. A few seats over, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) also focused most of his attention on papers in front of him instead of on the images depicting the insurrection at the Capitol, and a few seats from him, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) did the same.

    The senators on the floor all lived through the events of Jan. 6, and it is impossible to know why certain individuals chose to look away. The facial expressions of those who did watch were varied: Some were focused intently, others stared blankly, some frowned, and at least one Republican senator’s face appeared to redden the longer the video went on.
    Surprising nobody. Remember these names.

  12. #66012
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    At least some of them forced themselves to watch. I wouldn't have expected any less from the ones who weren't paying attention. It's harder for them to pretend they don't know the facts when they're forced to see them with their own eyes. Now they can say, "Sorry, I didn't see that," and it's 100% true.
    "What's a TV? What are videos? I'm too busy working to pay attention to these things, my staff handles that." - Marco Rubio, probably.

  13. #66013
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I mean, Tuberville blamed the weather for not being up on the news. I don’t put shit past these fucks.
    Hey, the guy gets his news via carrier pigeon, the most secure form of communication. It's not his fault when the weather is too stormy for the pigeons to arrive.

  14. #66014
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?
    Out of curiosity, did Mike Lee -- now my favorite hybrid ninja turtle -- honestly claim Trump got four years into his tenure before making a mistake? How's COVID going,, fucker?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Schumer says he has new evidence to present at Trump's second impeachment trial.

    I believe the managers will present a very strong case. The evidence will be powerful. The evidence, some of it will be new.
    Hmm. Well, to do anything different would make me a hypocrite. Then show it already! I somehow doubt two Proud Boys' texts to each other, likely sent between fornicating with livestock, count as classified intel.

  15. #66015
    LOL! Castor is effin horrible at litigating this case atm. Now he can just be a garbage lawyer but also this case is so indefensible, idk how/what you can argue.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

  16. #66016
    Lord, can tell this is trump's like 4th string legal team, the guy has ambulance chaser written all over him, and so I'm assuming the trumpsters love him.

  17. #66017
    I'm assuming he's going somewhere with all this, but I've been enjoying listening to him fawn over the US Senate for the past 5-10 minutes. Buttering up the jury right from the get-go.

  18. #66018
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    As Trump prepares to take the stand let his lawyers defend his murderous insurrection, it makes senese for his lawyers to have a defense.

    For example, they cited this paper by Kalt, a Michigan Law professor, from 2001.

    Problem is, Kalt is still alive and says Trump's team is misreading everything.

    For example, they quoted Kalt as saying something, which was actually said in 1876, and which Kalt said in that paper was an invalid argument.

    [Trump's lawyers] suggest that Kalt's position is that putting a former official on trial is also so unusual that if the founders meant to allow it, they would have put that in the Constitution, too.

    Kalt actually argued the opposite in his article.

    He wrote that the practice was widespread among the early states and in England. "The failure to bar it while specifying other limitations on the impeachment power is a telling admission," he wrote.
    At its core, the Constitution is a list of things the government can't do.

    "Well how were Trump's lawyers supposed to know Kalt opposed their position?"

    Well they could have read the article, for one. Or, this open letter signed by 170 legal scholars saying that, yes, you can impeach former officers.

    "That's just an opinion!"

    But Kalt signed it. Quoting someone who opposes your motion probably won't end well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Lord, can tell this is trump's like 4th string legal team
    Again, what choice does Trump have, what choice does Trump need?
    a) The Senate GOP would literally rather die than convict, so his lawyers' motions and evidence are meaningless.
    b) Which legal firm sees how Trump treats his legal teams, sees what Trump pays his legal team, and say "Yeah I want in on that murderous insurrection!"
    c) Also, Trump fires everyone who doesn't give the impossible results he demands. Do you see Powell in the room? No? It's because she was fired.

  19. #66019
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Lord, can tell this is trump's like 4th string legal team, the guy has ambulance chaser written all over him, and so I'm assuming the trumpsters love him.
    Trump could have just picked 3 random people off the street and sent them to defend him and the result would be the same. It doesn't matter if there are no lawyers willing to represent him when the jury has already made their decision.

  20. #66020
    People we shouldn't use the Magna Carta! Pre-Revolutionary!!!

    For those who are not following Trump's idiot lawyer is I guess trying to argue that we can't follow rules/precedent before our Revolution.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

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