1. #69941
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-from-office/

    So impeaching Trump isn't just more popular than not impeaching him, it's majority popular.
    I know it's semantics, but it's important: he's already been impeached (twice). This was for removal/conviction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Monday's short report:

    87,031 new cases is about 41k fewer than last Monday and continues the trend of big drops from the previous week.

    1,489 deaths is about 400 fewer than last Monday and brings the total to 476,405. We're closing in on a half million deaths and those whose negligence led to most of them will likely never truly be held accountable. Meanwhile I'm sure the GOP is chomping at the bit to start another distracting Benghazi investigation. Or they're too busy dying from COVID-19 after denying it's been a problem for the past year.

    Related news:

    U.S. COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations log biggest weekly drops since pandemic started--This is fantastic news and the drop in hospitalizations is particularly important.

    Wild Super Bowl celebrations prompt COVID super-spreader worries--Aaaaand then we come crashing back to a reality that is filled with fucking braindead dipshits. Fuck Florida.

    Stay safe, folks.

  2. #69942
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    If the timeline meshes up, Ron Wright was on his deathbed in the ICU at the very moment his staffers were sending out that tweet, so...

    Yes, death cultists.
    Wonder if they'll Hermain Cain his account.

  3. #69943
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Wild Super Bowl celebrations prompt COVID super-spreader worries--Aaaaand then we come crashing back to a reality that is filled with fucking braindead dipshits. Fuck Florida.

    Stay safe, folks.
    What makes me most upset is that these folks will probably spread it well beyond FL. And the folks responsible for shit like this like Ron DeSantis show up to the superbowl, unmasked, because he's gotta be able to drink a beer, bro.

    The wrong people are catching covid.

  4. #69944
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Wonder if they'll Hermain Cain his account.
    You have no idea how tempted I was to create a GhostofRonWhite account to essentially do that, but I felt it would be in poor taste and we usually leave that sort of thing to their side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What makes me most upset is that these folks will probably spread it well beyond FL. And the folks responsible for shit like this like Ron DeSantis show up to the superbowl, unmasked, because he's gotta be able to drink a beer, bro.

    The wrong people are catching covid.
    Yep. The numbers from Florida have always been unreliable, but I'll be watching for mini-explosions around the country in a week.

  5. #69945
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Wonder if they'll Hermain Cain his account.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  6. #69946
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    This one would be different. Trump's businesses went bankrupt six times, but Trump personally never did. However, if such a lawsuit was filed and had any chance of success, there'd be one main beneficiary:

    Deutsche Bank.

    Trump personally guaranteed hundreds of millions in loans. In the past, he's been floated an extension or two. If a loan comes due, and Trump's being sued, the banks will not kick the can down the road. They'll take the money -- or, if Trump can't pay, they'll take things Trump actually likes.

    NYState would also make their move, because if Trump loses all his money, he can't pay the back taxes he owes either.

    Bankruptcy isn't a get-out-of-lawsuit card, it might actually be worse. In bankruptcy, other people decide who you pay, and how much. You get to sit and wait until they're done carving your life's work out into parcels and give them to other people.

    Make no mistake, Dominion wants Giuliani to turn on Trump -- accidentally under oath because he's a gibbering idiot, or on purpose to save his hide. That gives them free reign to not only reflect the damages they suffered onto Trump, but start a chain reaction that destroys him in public.
    Can they take his property in bankruptcy? I thought they were assets of his businesses for loophole purposes. I remember there was a huge property that wasn't Mar-a-Lago, that his family stayed at a lot, and it was problematic because he declared it a rental place to reduce taxes despite never renting it out.

  7. #69947
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    Can they take his property in bankruptcy? I thought they were assets of his businesses for loophole purposes
    His share of said businesses is an asset, and they can take that. This would therefore strip him of the properties for even less than they're worth.

    Remember, banks aren't charities. They didn't let Trump personally guarantee a loan, if they knew Trump could not pay it back. There are all kinds of loopholes, true, but when you get a loan from a bank, you sign a contract, and they can/will enforce it. Deutsche Bank knows Trump has assets and partial ownership of assets. They also know he can't just give them to Donnie Dum-Dum Jr and shrug, saying "well I guess I'm broke...until you look the other way". Those people didn't get where they were playing fair, but they also didn't get where they were by giving billions to idiots and getting nothing in return.

    If dodging loans with bankruptcy was that easy, everyone would do it (and therefore the rules would change). Imagine if I borrowed $1000 in cash secured with a $1000 computer. I give the cash to @cubby and also the computer, go back to the bank and say "Well I can't pay you". Not only would they take me to court to get the money by completely legal means, I suspect I'd be criminally liable for fraud for giving away the collateral. If @cubby knew what I was doing, he'd be an accomplice, so odds are he'd give the money and/or computer back or he's in trouble too.

    Trump had six businesses that lost a ton of value and they could not pay their creditors. He was partial owner, but he didn't sign the contracts on his behalf, but his companies'. That's closer to the loophole you asked about. But as long as Trump has assets, especially the ones Deutsche Bank told him not to give away or sell, he can't just walk away from this one and claim poverty. Nor can he simply hide it under the rug and hope for the best.

    If, for example, Deutsche Bank comes to reclaim the loan and Trump declares bankruptcy, the courts will decide who gets what share of Trump's owned businesses. If he tries to defraud a bank, Deutsche Bank will bring him up on charges, and still get their money from his family and businesses. People who give out loans aren't typically forgiving sorts that will say "Well, I guess we don't get that billion back, womp-womp" and shrug. They say "you owe us that billion, and if necessary, we'll get it from your grandchildren, now open wide we're going for those fillings".

  8. #69948
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...p-from-office/


    So impeaching Trump isn't just more popular than not impeaching him, it's majority popular.
    Technically, the correct statement is a majority wanted to remove him from office, not want to remove him, as he is already out of office.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
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  9. #69949
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    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-02-09 at 05:23 AM.
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  10. #69950
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Sorry you don't care about being correct. Plus, it is incorrect to say "no one cares", as a significant portion of the US population does. What you likely meant was "no one who's opinion I care about cares".

    Oh, and that poll shows that only 47% think he should be convicted.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  11. #69951
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Technically, the correct statement is a majority wanted to remove him from office, not want to remove him, as he is already out of office.
    And technically the majority never wanted trump to be in office anyway, and yet four years of “well how bad could he be?” later we’re draining his swamp clogged with 400,000 dead Americans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Sorry you don't care about being correct. Plus, it is incorrect to say "no one cares", as a significant portion of the US population does. What you likely meant was "no one who's opinion I care about cares".

    Oh, and that poll shows that only 47% think he should be convicted.
    ...against the 40% that think he shouldn’t. So more people believe he should be officially removed. It’s not even particularly close.

    Moreover, there’s a decent chunk of republicans within that 40% that believe the insane conspiracy that Biden didn’t actually win. So clearly their opinion on the matter is tainted with an enormous grain of “nothing this person thinks on the matter is worth a rat’s ass because they live in a fairy dreamworld”

    Factoring them into the equation would be like putting up a poll asking a group of people whether they’d rather take a cruise to Europe or Japan and including a contingent of flat earthers who didn’t think it was possible to sail to Japan.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-02-09 at 08:18 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #69952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What kind of billionaire is Trump? Self proclaimed?
    This deserves some discussion.

    So, there are types of billionaires, including
    a) those that have $1 billion or more, and
    b) those that have $1 billion or more more than they owe

    Trump is likely to face several powerful groups, not the last of which is Deutsche Bank, coming for the money Trump promised them with contracts that not even Trump can get out of...until he declares personal bankruptcy and basically loses everything. In other words, he's likely the first type. We have a rough idea how much his assets are worth, but he's pretty quiet about how much he owes -- and to whom. He fought for four years for that, the world's largest security risk, to be hidden from Congress. If he really had that much money, I can't imagine he'd need to hide it. Also, if he had that much money, I can't imagine banks would be reluctant to give him loans. Someone with money can be forced to pay. Someone without money cannot.

  13. #69953
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?

  14. #69954
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?
    Doesn’t that make Trump guilty?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  15. #69955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Mike Lee just said that Trump shouldn't be convicted because "everyone makes mistakes; everyone deserves a mulligan". A mulligan. For inciting a riot on the Capitol?
    Since this is his SECOND impeachment, I'd say he already got his mulligan.

  16. #69956
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Doesn’t that make Trump guilty?
    No, the fact that he did it is what makes Trump guilty. None of these GOP are going to be voting to convict him. Rand Paul is just doodling on his notepad.

  17. #69957
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Doesn’t that make Trump guilty?
    It's Mike Lee basically saying he is. It's weird that rich old white guys deserves mulligans for their "mistakes" but the rest of us are forced to face the consequences.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    No, the fact that he did it is what makes Trump guilty. None of these GOP are going to be voting to convict him. Rand Paul is just doodling on his notepad.
    Is he writing silly shit like "Rand Trump" over and over? Probably.

  18. #69958
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...TEM36CWW5Z7VKY

    Almost every senatorial eye in the chamber was glued to the screens as lead House manager Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) played a 13-minute video depicting the events of Jan. 6 to introduce the impeachment case against Trump — with a few notable exceptions.

    While the screen showed demonstrators marching on the Capitol, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) looked down at the pad of lined paper in his lap, where he had already begun doodling with a pencil. Behind him, Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.) studied papers in his lap, taking only the tiniest glimpses at the screen to his right. A few seats over, Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) also focused most of his attention on papers in front of him instead of on the images depicting the insurrection at the Capitol, and a few seats from him, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) did the same.

    The senators on the floor all lived through the events of Jan. 6, and it is impossible to know why certain individuals chose to look away. The facial expressions of those who did watch were varied: Some were focused intently, others stared blankly, some frowned, and at least one Republican senator’s face appeared to redden the longer the video went on.
    Surprising nobody. Remember these names.

  19. #69959
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...TEM36CWW5Z7VKY



    Surprising nobody. Remember these names.
    At least some of them forced themselves to watch. I wouldn't have expected any less from the ones who weren't paying attention. It's harder for them to pretend they don't know the facts when they're forced to see them with their own eyes. Now they can say, "Sorry, I didn't see that," and it's 100% true.

  20. #69960
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    At least some of them forced themselves to watch. I wouldn't have expected any less from the ones who weren't paying attention. It's harder for them to pretend they don't know the facts when they're forced to see them with their own eyes. Now they can say, "Sorry, I didn't see that," and it's 100% true.
    "What's a TV? What are videos? I'm too busy working to pay attention to these things, my staff handles that." - Marco Rubio, probably.

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