Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Well, Trump's not the worst president, he's only the 41st worst president out of 44, lol.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrews...cracks-top-10/

The only presidents who ranked behind Trump are Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson, all reviled by historians for their seeming culpability in the Civil War or racial segregation.

Genuinely forgot Franklin Pierce ever existed. Man that's some pretty awful company to share. If I'm ever president, I hope I net out near James A. Garfield, just because of his last name. I have no clue where he actually sites given his extremely brief tenure in office, I just wanna hang with Garfield.

[Benggaul]

Tuesday's report:

11,427 new cases; about 1.5k fewer than last Tuesday.

Top 5:

Fuck Florida.
Texas: 1,370 new cases; 20 deaths
Missouri: 922 new cases; no deaths reported
California: 830 new cases; 16 deaths
Nevada: 625 new cases; 8 deaths

California's dropped below 1k again though I'm sure it's a temporary thing. California's doing great in terms of new infections and such but with their population (which includes a large amount of Trumpers, let's not forget) they're bound to head north of 1k again as Delta continues becoming more dominant in the US. Nevada and Missouri continue to be near the top of the chart as their surges continue. Texas continues being Texas.

294 deaths is nearly 150 fewer than last Tuesday and brings the total to 619,980. Florida, Michigan and Texas are up top today, but given that Missouri still doesn't seem to be reporting their daily death totals it's hard to say whether or not they'd be up there.

Related news:

New Jersey, New York see lowest COVID hospitalizations since start of pandemic--Quite the turnaround considering they were ground zero for the worst of it at the start of the pandemic.

With the more contagious Delta variant, some officials are issuing new mask guidance--I've been saying this for a while, but it's becoming more official: Even if you're vaccinated, you should still be wearing your mask.

Stay safe, folks.

[Breccia]

One slow step at a time.

Eighty-two bottles of beer on the wall,
Eitghy-two bottles of beer,
I never thought Trump would turn on me
Eighty-one bottles of beer on the wall.

Charges against the company might not be enough for some people, but I'm really curious how this will play out. Trump's already got serious money problems, and the Trump Org is his best way to make enough to hold off his creditors. If it staggers, he feels it. If it crumbles, he spends the rest of his life sitting on a Mar-a-Lago barstool, realizing that his family only loved him for his money.

[cubby]

Eighty-two bottles of beer on the wall,
Eitghy-two bottles of beer,
I never thought Trump would turn on me
Eighty-one bottles of beer on the wall.

Charges against the company might not be enough for some people, but I'm really curious how this will play out. Trump's already got serious money problems, and the Trump Org is his best way to make enough to hold off his creditors. If it staggers, he feels it. If it crumbles, he spends the rest of his life sitting on a Mar-a-Lago barstool, realizing that his family only loved him for his money.

I'm hoping these tax charges are just the tip of the iceberg. With the CFO not flipping yet, he's also facing charges. I don't know the specific laws of NY or Manhattan, but I think that the officers of a corporation are criminally responsible for the actions of the corporation, and that would include Trump and some of his family. I've got a work deadline or I would throw some research time into it.

[solinari6]

I'm hoping these tax charges are just the tip of the iceberg.

They might be: https://www.salon.com/2021/06/30/mic...-know_partner/

[people think that] "if Allen Weisselberg does not cooperate with the Manhattan DA's office — and all indications are that he has not and will not — that office will not be able to criminally charge Donald Trump for any of the conduct under investigation."

But Cohen, who spent years working as Trump's "fixer," vehemently disagreed.

"Wrong!" Cohen wrote in response. "They have documents to prove more than you know or should be commenting on. Weisselberg is not the key to a Trump indictment."

If anyone would know that, Cohen would.

[cubby]

They might be: https://www.salon.com/2021/06/30/mic...-know_partner/

[people think that] "if Allen Weisselberg does not cooperate with the Manhattan DA's office — and all indications are that he has not and will not — that office will not be able to criminally charge Donald Trump for any of the conduct under investigation."

But Cohen, who spent years working as Trump's "fixer," vehemently disagreed.

"Wrong!" Cohen wrote in response. "They have documents to prove more than you know or should be commenting on. Weisselberg is not the key to a Trump indictment."

If anyone would know that, Cohen would.

That is one strategy that prosecutors use - file charges they know they can prosecute, and use the evidence gathering and depositions from that to go after larger charges. I just hope Trump is still alive to see his company implode.

(it still blows me away that Trump didn't protect Cohen - of all the people not to pardon...)

[Breccia]

(deep breath)
(long, exasperated sigh)

McCarthy calls for investigation into NSA spying on Carlson.

No, really.

There is a public report that NSA read the emails of Fox News host Tucker Carlson. Although NSA publicly denied targeting Carlson, I have serious questions regarding this matter that must be answered

"What about the public report that Trump worked with Russia?"

Nothing.

"Does McCarthy believe this?"

Of course not. He, like others in the Party of Trump, know that anyone who is not Trump, is not Trump. He must curry favor in order to stay alive in the party he gave to Trump. McCarthy is lying.

[beanman12345]

I'm hoping these tax charges are just the tip of the iceberg. With the CFO not flipping yet, he's also facing charges. I don't know the specific laws of NY or Manhattan, but I think that the officers of a corporation are criminally responsible for the actions of the corporation, and that would include Trump and some of his family. I've got a work deadline or I would throw some research time into it.

It most certainly is. They got the grand jury meeting for 5 more months. This is step 1.

- - - Updated - - -

(deep breath)
(long, exasperated sigh)

McCarthy calls for investigation into NSA spying on Carlson.

No, really.



"What about the public report that Trump worked with Russia?"

Nothing.

"Does McCarthy believe this?"

Of course not. He, like others in the Party of Trump, know that anyone who is not Trump, is not Trump. He must curry favor in order to stay alive in the party he gave to Trump. McCarthy is lying.

He's worried about NSA spying on Cucker(which didn't happen,) but not worried about the upcoming criminal charges on Gaetz(which seems certainly will happen,) sounds about right.

[D Luniz]

Well the KKK was already taken...

so was Council of Conservative Citizens

[Bakis]

How fucking far down the drain does the US has to go before its okey to acknowledge that having a two party system of which one is dedicated to North Korean cult mentaltity is nuts. Where is the old reasonable (in perspective) GOP?
Jeeses christ get a fucking grip already. What the hell is wrong with your country.

[Breccia]

DeSantis finally got around to signing that Bill that would prevent Social Media platforms from enforcing their rules

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand

Nothing. The Florida law is likely unenforceable.

Turns out everyone was right. Not just me. Everyone called this.

A federal judge has temporarily blocked a Florida law that would have forced social media companies to carry speech even if it violated their rules.

The law, which experts expected to be declared unconstitutional, was set to go into effect Thursday.

CCIA President Matt Schruers, whose trade group was among those who sued to block the law said the ruling was "encouraging."

“Florida’s statute is an extraordinary overreach, designed to penalize private businesses for their perceived lack of deference to the Government’s political ideology," Schruers said. "The court’s ruling is a win for internet users and the First Amendment.”

I would take a victory lap, but it'd be awfully crowded.

EDIT:

The plaintiffs are likely to prevail on the merits of their claim that these statutes violate the First Amendment. There is nothing that could be severed and survive.

-- the judge

[cubby]

How fucking far down the drain does the US has to go before its okey to acknowledge that having a two party system of which one is dedicated to North Korean cult mentaltity is nuts. Where is the old reasonable (in perspective) GOP?
Jeeses christ get a fucking grip already. What the hell is wrong with your country.

It's entirely possible we've tipped over into a crevasse we'll never completely escape. The violent cult mentality of the Trump followers have always been around, they just found their leader in Trump, and even if-and-when he dies, they just won't go away. And now were literally electing members of Congress who identify with insane conspiracy theory.

We are in the Post Fact Era.

[beanman12345]

How fucking far down the drain does the US has to go before its okey to acknowledge that having a two party system of which one is dedicated to North Korean cult mentaltity is nuts. Where is the old reasonable (in perspective) GOP?
Jeeses christ get a fucking grip already. What the hell is wrong with your country.

I don't think there is a bottom to the drain unfortunately. We keep trying to reach it but there is always more to go.

[Breccia]

While we wait for the arrests to begin, let's talk about Trump's bestest friend in the whole world, DeSantis. Ah, DeSantis: opened his state immediately, tried to force social media to carry hate speech and incitements to violence, truly a man Trump can trust as he lives in Florida for the rest of his life.

Surely nothing will ever break this Trump attacks DeSantis for asking Trump to push back a Trump rally.

Yep.

"Why would DeSantis ask Trump to postpone?"

You might have heard about the building collapse? DeSantis has other things on his mind.

"Oh shit, right. Well then, why wouldn't DeSantis just force a cancellation? I mean, that's already happened once."

Because DeSantis' popularity is borrowed. He loses Trump, he loses. Trump still runs the Party of Trump, DeSantis is just vying for second in command. DeSantis will run in 2022 and cannot win without the borrowed votes of the rabid fanbase. Therefore, he's not yet ready to tell Trump not to come to his state and spew hate speech and promote deregulation while DeSantis is still pulling bodies from the rubble when a building collapsed under his watch, possibly due to his employees.

"Well at least Trump will be there. Where's Biden during all of this?"

He's set to arrive tomorrow to meet the families of --

"Oh, right, he's actually Presidential. I forget that sometimes. Well, Trump is apparently claiming he'll spearhead some fundraising. What's Biden doing to help?"

He sent FEMA five days ago.

"...I thought Trump knew how to read a room. This looks more and more like he's stomping on land mines on purpose."

Trump is desperate for an audience that will chant his name and believe everything he says at face value. He wants to continue to spread lies about the election without fear of contradiction by logic, evidence, or facts. And he's running out of places to do that. Pennsylvania just vetoed a Party of Trump voter suppression bill. Biden is undoing Trump's policies and executive orders. The Florida social media law was just blocked, I posted that earlier. The AZ recount is going southwest on the GOP.

And, yes, his company is about to be arrested.

Trump needs a rally because that's basically his fix. People cheering his name is a finite resource, and he might even realize that. And DeSantis is telling him "dude, you might have a problem". Which is the correct thing to tell someone you care about when they're addicted, before it's too late.

You'd think Trump would know that.

- - - Updated - - -

CSPAN has done a survey since 2000 involving a bunch of US Presidential historians to rate the at-the-time former Presidents of the US, in order, using a numerical scale on multiple factors such as "Economic Management" and "Administrative Skills".

Since Trump is now a former, he's on the list. In position #41.

"Who was #40?"

William Henry Harrison.

"...didn't he die like a month into his tenure?"

Yes.

"Ouch."

Trump's final score was 312, tied with Franklin Pierce. (Lincoln, untouchably #1, has a 897. Obama is #10 with 664)

"He got the tax cut for the rich passed. Surely his Econominc Management result was high."

I mean, it was one of his better scores. He ranked 34th in that one.

"But the man could lead a crowd, sometimes even into a murderous insurrection. Did he get any credit for that?"

Public Persuasion was his best showing. He came in 32nd.

"Well at least he didn't come in dead last."

He did in Moral Authority and Administrative Skills. No big surprise to the man who blew off COVID while being impeached the first time.

"Wait, he didn't bl--"

Trump said, 'yeah, okay' and hung up the phone when his health secretary warned him about the coronavirus in January 2020, a new book says

"Wait, what?"

The president was at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida at the time, a trip that took place roughly a month after the House impeached him over his efforts to solicit Ukraine's interference in the 2020 election. The Senate was readying his trial. Trump aides thought the president needed cheering up and sent him off to West Palm Beach, the book says.

Meanwhile, health staffers in his administration were growing increasingly concerned over COVID-19, according to the book.

"Mr. President, I've got to tell you something," Azar told Trump during a mid-January 2020 phone call, before COVID-19 broke out across the country and forced officials to impose lockdowns. "There's this new virus out of China that could be extremely dangerous. It could be the kind of thing we have been preparing for and worried about."

Azar then relayed to Trump that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had started to screen travelers from China to the US but that additional safety measures probably needed to be taken to mitigate potential spread of the virus, per the book.

"Yeah, okay," Trump replied, seemingly unconvinced of the threat. Then he hung up the phone.

Now I know we've all heard this story before: after a big disaster, we get info about the people who mentioned it beforehand. We saw it with the 9/11 planes, we are seeing it unfold in real time with the Florida building collapse, and this is just another one. People in charge likely hear tons of reports about problems or potential problems. We rarely hear about this kind of warning when nothing happens. But bear in mind the scope of this one, plus the fact that Trump hired Azar for exactly this reason. There is a differnce between some random guy saying "I heard your brakes squeaking, you might want to check them out" versus your mechanic saying "You're out of brake fluid, you can't stop your car, for the love of God please let me fix it before you try to drive home". Trump ignored his mechanic, pulled onto I-95 in rush hour, and caused a massive pileup.

And we'll never know if Trump hung up because
1) Xi had already told him this wasn't a problem, and Trump believed him
2) Trump was still angry at Azar for banning flavored ecigs, which apparently he was yelling at Azar for during that same phone call
3) Trump wanted some alone time and just didn't want to do his job that day
4) It was over 140 characters and Trump lost interest
None of these are redeeming options.

I'm sure Azar wants to be the 1,475th person to claim "I was the only one in the White House to bla bla bla" and escape from having Trump's Shitshow ruin his legacy. Considering how many times I cited what Trump said on Jan 22, this claimed behavior from Trump seems 100% on brand, and therefore I choose to believe it based on existing evidence. But even if Azar claims he did everything he could as HHS, he neither went public with this info to sound the alarm when Trump refused, nor did he resign in protest. I looked for anything in the news from Azar from Jan 1-22 and found only this that was relevant. Oh, and Trump yelling at Azar Jan 17th for not doing enough to lower drug prices. Nothing about Azar screaming for help, nothing about Azar resigning until a full year later Jan 16th 2021. So he can claim he did all he could, but that's a lie. Just like Barr, honestly.

With 400,000 dead while Trump was in office (or was it higher?) Trump's proven inactions killed more Americans than nearly any natural disaster in US history, and any war other than the Civil War. I'm saying the "dead last" place for Trump is warranted.

By the way, people flocked to fill out this survey. In 2017 they had 91 responces, this time it was 142. Historians and professors in history were lining up to answer this. Gee, I wonder why. The survey's website gives scores for everyone, but I don't see a lot of written explanations from the responses so I don't have any quotes. Just the results of an army of professional, qualified experts who said that Trump was equally as bad as Franklin Pierce, slavery advocate in 1853 to 1857.

[pathora44]

CSPAN has done a survey since 2000 involving a bunch of US Presidential historians to rate the at-the-time former Presidents of the US, in order, using a numerical scale on multiple factors such as "Economic Management" and "Administrative Skills".

Since Trump is now a former, he's on the list. In position #41.

"Who was #40?"

William Henry Harrison.

"...didn't he die like a month into his tenure?"

Yes.

"Ouch."

Trump's final score was 312, tied with Franklin Pierce. (Lincoln, untouchably #1, has a 897. Obama is #10 with 664)

"He got the tax cut for the rich passed. Surely his Econominc Management result was high."

I mean, it was one of his better scores. He ranked 34th in that one.

"But the man could lead a crowd, sometimes even into a murderous insurrection. Did he get any credit for that?"

Public Persuasion was his best showing. He came in 32nd.

"Well at least he didn't come in dead last."

He did in Moral Authority and Administrative Skills. No big surprise to the man who blew off COVID while being impeached the first time.

"Wait, he didn't bl--"

Trump said, 'yeah, okay' and hung up the phone when his health secretary warned him about the coronavirus in January 2020, a new book says

"Wait, what?"



Now I know we've all heard this story before: after a big disaster, we get info about the people who mentioned it beforehand. We saw it with the 9/11 planes, we are seeing it unfold in real time with the Florida building collapse, and this is just another one. People in charge likely hear tons of reports about problems or potential problems. We rarely hear about this kind of warning when nothing happens. But bear in mind the scope of this one, plus the fact that Trump hired Azar for exactly this reason. There is a differnce between some random guy saying "I heard your brakes squeaking, you might want to check them out" versus your mechanic saying "You're out of brake fluid, you can't stop your car, for the love of God please let me fix it before you try to drive home". Trump ignored his mechanic, pulled onto I-95 in rush hour, and caused a massive pileup.

And we'll never know if Trump hung up because
1) Xi had already told him this wasn't a problem, and Trump believed him
2) Trump was still angry at Azar for banning flavored ecigs, which apparently he was yelling at Azar for during that same phone call
3) Trump wanted some alone time and just didn't want to do his job that day
4) It was over 140 characters and Trump lost interest
None of these are redeeming options.

I'm sure Azar wants to be the 1,475th person to claim "I was the only one in the White House to bla bla bla" and escape from having Trump's Shitshow ruin his legacy. Considering how many times I cited what Trump said on Jan 22, this claimed behavior from Trump seems 100% on brand, and therefore I choose to believe it based on existing evidence. But even if Azar claims he did everything he could as HHS, he neither went public with this info to sound the alarm when Trump refused, nor did he resign in protest. I looked for anything in the news from Azar from Jan 1-22 and found only this that was relevant. Oh, and Trump yelling at Azar Jan 17th for not doing enough to lower drug prices. Nothing about Azar screaming for help, nothing about Azar resigning until a full year later Jan 16th 2021. So he can claim he did all he could, but that's a lie. Just like Barr, honestly.

With 400,000 dead while Trump was in office (or was it higher?) Trump's proven inactions killed more Americans than nearly any natural disaster in US history, and any war other than the Civil War. I'm saying the "dead last" place for Trump is warranted.

By the way, people flocked to fill out this survey. In 2017 they had 91 responces, this time it was 142. Historians and professors in history were lining up to answer this. Gee, I wonder why. The survey's website gives scores for everyone, but I don't see a lot of written explanations from the responses so I don't have any quotes. Just the results of an army of professional, qualified experts who said that Trump was equally as bad as Franklin Pierce, slavery advocate in 1853 to 1857.

Trump totally deserves to be in the bottom 5, I also completely agree with the top 5 as pretty perfect but you know what surprises me? Why in the hell is Ronald Reagan so damn high, they said he was the 9th best president at Crisis Leadership? The bastard allowed the aids epidemic to ravage the entire country and refused to do anything for years even though community leaders were begging for help from the CDC and the Federal government. In fact beyond not doing anything they allowed their inaction to turn into further discrimination against the LGBTQ+ community as the so called carriers of the disease. That should push Reagan to at least the 30's if not to the bottom of the list in that catagory. Plus not to add the man should have been imprisoned for treason by illegally selling weapons to Iran in order to pay for death squads in Nicaraguans. Finally while Reagan didn't create the trickle-down economic plan he did basically ushered it into the mainstream and it has been nothing but a blight upon America ever since.

[ati87]

How fucking far down the drain does the US has to go before its okey to acknowledge that having a two party system of which one is dedicated to North Korean cult mentaltity is nuts. Where is the old reasonable (in perspective) GOP?
Jeeses christ get a fucking grip already. What the hell is wrong with your country.

Fact that the GOP still calls themselves "the party of lincoln" kind of tells you how far you have to go to be seen as reasonable.

[Breccia]

Why in the hell is Ronald Reagan so damn high, they said he was the 9th best president at Crisis Leadership?

Reagan is often given credit for winning the Cold War. People actually believed Reagan would use nukes. Nobody believed that about Carter, Bush, the other Bush, Obama, or Biden. They might believe Trump would have used them, but probably on Georgia.

"The country or the state?"

Yes.

[TSLM]

They might believe Trump would have used them, but probably on Georgia.

Or on a hurricane.

[Breccia]

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!

Imagine having the empty soul of Greg Abbott to be able to sit there and smile like an idiot while this lunatic talks about his cognitive test like it was a freaking Mensa IQ test and not a means to see if he is losing his mind because everyone thought he was.

"Ah, someone from when Trump said person, man, woman, camera, TV. You shouldn't post things from a year ago unless they're still rel--"

Trump was bragging about the test again when he was in Texas yesterday. The above quote is from the Lincoln Project, basically, and it's a solid point that needs to be brought up because the QAnon Shaman likely took a very similar test for very similar reasons.

The NYTimes article from back when Trump took the test spells it out.

The president said on Fox News that he had to remember those words as part of a test that he said demonstrated his mental acuity. But the test, the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, is meant to detect signs of dementia, Alzheimer’s disease or other conditions.

Trump bragging about passing, or acing, the test means one of two things:
1) He honestly thinks it's an intelligence test, or
2) He knows it isn't, and is lying to his followers about it

The Montreal Cognitive Assessment is meant to test for signs of dementia, Alzheimer’s disease or other conditions, but the president talked about it on Fox News on Wednesday night as if he had aced an IQ test proving his intelligence. Experts said that reflected a misunderstanding about the purpose and value of the exam.

“It is good that he has a good score, and it’s very good that he has a higher than average score, so this is reassuring in terms of cognitive dysfunction,” Dr. Ziad Nasreddine, the neurologist who created the test, said in an interview. “It obviously does not measure whether a person is fit to be president.”

Dr. Nasreddine said about 10 percent of those in their 70s get a perfect score of 30, but it is meant to detect fading capacity, not intelligence. For those suffering from a degenerative condition, summoning the word for elephant when shown a drawing of it can be frustratingly difficult, and Dr. Nasreddine expressed concern that the mockery the president had experienced might discourage patients from taking the test.

The NYTimes article also goes on to point out

• In the first interview where Trump bragged about the test, he could not stay in a coherent sentence
• And there's still a question on if he meant the test his doctor said he'd passed years ago, or a new test, because he said it was the previous year and not two
• Trump suggested injesting bleach
• Trump suggested coronavirus tests increased the amount of coronavirus

And that was just in that article. We've seen plenty.

Trump also, both at the time and yesterday, has challenged Biden on the issue. Yesterday he suggested Biden would get two or three out of thirty. Because that's how Trump, and other conspiracy theorists, work. They create a scenario in which there is no evidence and likely to be no evidence, then proclaim loudly that the lack of evidence proves they are correct. He did it with Obama's birth certificate and Clinton's "stroke". And his followers believed him.

I say the same logic should apply to Trump.

Remember, we really only have Trump's word that he aced the test, and that the doctors were blown away by it. Trump has used "some guy you've never met told me..." over and over to spread lies while feigning deniability if caught. Trump's test, which we did not see, is therefore suspect.

I call upon all our resident Trump supporters, yes you hiding in your bunkers we know where you are, to pick one of these options:
1) Because we have not seen Biden's or Trump's test results, we deserve to see them both, and not just take their word that they passed it.
2) We don't need to see the test scores at all, because they mean nothing.

If the test means something, as Trump brags that it does and demands Biden take the same test, then we deserve to see Trump's actual results. Or, if Trump's test result doesn't mean anything so we don't need to see it, then neither does Biden's.

Pick one. Failure to choose will be deemed hypocrisy, because Trump supporters back Trump (by definition) unless they say otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

Weaselberg peacefully surrenders.

[Ivanstone]

With 400,000 dead while Trump was in office (or was it higher?) Trump's proven inactions killed more Americans than nearly any natural disaster in US history, and any war other than the Civil War. I'm saying the "dead last" place for Trump is warranted.

The Spanish Flu might've killed upwards of 850 000 Americans. The US didn't handle it well either.