Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

The Spanish Flu might've killed upwards of 850 000 Americans. The US didn't handle it well either.

The CDC puts it at 675,000 including an unexpected number of 20-40 year olds, so yes, that was beyond tragedy into "holy shit" territory. And of course this was 100 years ago so it was a higher proportion too.

I will point out, however, the CDC also says this:

With no vaccine to protect against influenza infection and no antibiotics to treat secondary bacterial infections that can be associated with influenza infections, control efforts worldwide were limited to non-pharmaceutical interventions such as isolation, quarantine, good personal hygiene, use of disinfectants, and limitations of public gatherings, which were applied unevenly.

I will also point out, that the CDC says the Spanish Flu killed about 50 million worldwide, and 675,000 of them American. That's a little over one percent. Look at the death toll worldwide of COVID, and the percent of them Americans. Worldometers says 4 million dead now, 400,000 of them Trump's. That's ten percent. Trump is worse by an order of magnitude.

Does Woodrow Wilson and his WH get some blame about handling this? Of course. He was in charge. While I am pointing out that times and tech were different, I'm not trying to absolve him at all. It was a dark period of world/American health and a massive tragedy. Some historians believe that Wilson also downplayed the virus, and that he caught it himself and nearly died, so the parallels are obvious and Wilson's not getting a pass from me. (C-SPAN ranked him 11 in Crisis Management because, well, World War One kind of padded his numbers there)

But 100 years and change later, and we see Trump fighting these very same methods that Wilson got Americans to rely on, to save their own and each other's lives. Their world-vs-USA percentages show the difference. Trump deserves every hit to his effectiveness that COVID demonstrated he had. Whether you blame him or not, Wilson was caught by surprise. Trump has no such excuse. Azar tried to warn him, directly, personally.

There's an old saying, fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...if your country gets devastated by a lethal outbreak you should learn from it and be better prepared for the next one.

Please don't take this post as an attack on you or your post. In fact, part of why this reply is so long, is because I looked into it and said "holy shit, that was a lot worse than I remember". Yes, the Spanish Flu was a monster. This history professor seems to 100% agree with you, for example.

Dr. Keith Lyon is a History Professor at Beaufort Community College. He said, “Think how many doctors with so much expertise and so much knowledge weren’t able to anticipate this because of the lack of information that they got.”

Lyon said, "President Trump’s fear was that by giving out information, he might damage the economy. The lack of information ended up doing more damage. By not doing that, the situation was worse when it manifested, and had a tremendous effect on the stock market and the economy anyway.”

WWI is kind of a grey area, but if I had to choose which was worse, lying about a lethal outbreak to help preserve a world war effort or lying about a lethal outbreak to help preserve money, you can probably guess which I'd pick.

The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

I won't stop you from saying "fuck Wilson", and if I had enough research time I might even join you. But I'm still convinced Trump was worse, and he was worse with the benefit of hindsight, medical tech, and better help. And he was worse, for a worse reason, and on purpose.

[Shadowferal]

I won't stop you from saying "fuck Wilson", and if I had enough research time I might even join you. But I'm still convinced Trump was worse, and he was worse with the benefit of hindsight, medical tech, and better help. And he was worse, for a worse reason, and on purpose.

S'okay... Plenty of other reasons to say "fuck Wilson."

[Templar 331]

Supreme Court sides with Arizona on voting restrictions

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...9b2?li=BBnb7Kz

The justices split 6-3 along ideological lines, with the Republican-appointed majority concluding that disparate impacts on minority groups would typically not be enough to render voting rules illegal under the act.

It's shit like this that makes me fear the possibility of another Republican held government. If fucking over minorities from voting isn't a violation of the Voting Right's Act then WTF is? That was the ENTIRE POINT OF THE LAW!!

[beanman12345]

Supreme Court sides with Arizona on voting restrictions

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...9b2?li=BBnb7Kz



It's shit like this that makes me fear the possibility of another Republican held government. If fucking over minorities from voting isn't a violation of the Voting Right's Act then WTF is? That was the ENTIRE POINT OF THE LAW!!

That's the key word, since the law is basically dead now with this ruling. They've weakened it to the point that it's untenable with all the bills being passed at the state level.

[Fugus]

That's the key word, since the law is basically dead now with this ruling. They've weakened it to the point that it's untenable with all the bills being passed at the state level.

And with their shit, I REALLY see things getting REALLY violent in the next few years. Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. And this isn't even about a revolution, just the ability to vote.

[Ivanstone]

I won't stop you from saying "fuck Wilson", and if I had enough research time I might even join you. But I'm still convinced Trump was worse, and he was worse with the benefit of hindsight, medical tech, and better help. And he was worse, for a worse reason, and on purpose.

I partially agree with you. Trump could've been a lot better. However the Spanish Flu also demonstrated that people aren't going to take precautions regardless of who's in charge. I don't think the US is capable of a good response just because people are too obsessed with their idea of independence. On top of that GOP politicians are generally incompetent at governing. Trump could've done the right thing and still face planted.

[pathora44]

Supreme Court sides with Arizona on voting restrictions

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...9b2?li=BBnb7Kz



It's shit like this that makes me fear the possibility of another Republican held government. If fucking over minorities from voting isn't a violation of the Voting Right's Act then WTF is? That was the ENTIRE POINT OF THE LAW!!

Roberts on discriminatory voting laws: "The Voting Rights Act is unneeded since Section 2 will cover against any potential discriminatory voting laws."
Roberts on discriminatory voting laws: "Obvious discriminatory voting laws aren't prohibited by Section 2."

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and fuck off to all the idiot opinion writers in the news who were saying "Egg on Democrats faces for worrying about super Conservative majority they totes got shown to be fear mongering with smaller decisions by the SCOTUS". This decision and the looming future decision in the next session when one of the dozens of unconstitutional anti abortion laws hit their desk. When what we fear is going to happen passes with them basically striking down Roe V. Wade.

[Breccia]

the Spanish Flu also demonstrated that people aren't going to take precautions regardless of who's in charge

Half of us did.

[cubby]

Roberts on discriminatory voting laws: "The Voting Rights Act is unneeded since Section 2 will cover against any potential discriminatory voting laws."
Roberts on discriminatory voting laws: "Obvious discriminatory voting laws aren't prohibited by Section 2."

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and fuck off to all the idiot opinion writers in the news who were saying "Egg on Democrats faces for worrying about super Conservative majority they totes got shown to be fear mongering with smaller decisions by the SCOTUS". This decision and the looming future decision in the next session when one of the dozens of unconstitutional anti abortion laws hit their desk. When what we fear is going to happen passes with them basically striking down Roe V. Wade.

What's really scary is that it's possible Robert's SCOTUS did those smaller decisions with unanimous decisions for political reasons. So that when the big-ticket decisions come down, like the AZ voting restrictions case, the "conservative majority issue" would have been placated.

This is how democracy dies.

[solinari6]

Abortion pill aficionado Jason Miller launched another new right wing twitter clone: GETTR. Maybe this will be the one that takes off? lol

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...latform-497606

No word yet if Trump is on board.

[cubby]

Charges revealed against the Trump Org and it's CFO.

The indictment charges the Trump Organization, Trump Payroll Corporation and Weisselberg. Prosecutors in court described a 15-year tax scheme and said the charges include 15 felony counts, including a scheme to defraud, conspiracy, grand larceny and falsifying business records.

Re CFO Weisselberg:

"Even now there’s been no attempt to impose discipline on members of the company," Manhattan prosecutor Carey Dunne said. "There is no clearer example of a company that should be held (responsible). "Prosecutors asked for Weisselberg's passport to be taken, believe he is a flight risk, saying he has been and will remain CFO of this international company. There is "ample record of travel by private jet, ample means to support himself out of our jurisdiction."

[Benggaul]

Wednesday's report:

14,197 new cases; around 500 fewer than last Wednesday.

Top 5:

Fuck Florida.
California: 1,381 new cases; 44 deaths
Missouri: 1,313 new cases; no deaths reported
Texas: 944 new cases; 22 deaths
Arizona: 769 new cases; 6 deaths

California's up there again mostly by virtue of the huge population and today's total isn't any higher than the highs they've had in weeks past. Their positivity remains at about 1.2%, which is higher than it was a couple weeks ago, but still far below the 5% threshold. By comparison, Nevada is now at 8.9%, Missouri is at 7.6% and Arkansas is at 6.7%. Missouri has again hit a high they haven't seen since February. I don't trust Texas' numbers--they don't really match how it's been going there lately. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

249 deaths is over 100 fewer than last Thursday and brings the total to 620,249. Florida, California and Texas take the top three again and the 7-day average continues to decline. Hopefully it will continue to do so even if numbers continue rising in certain parts of the nation.

Related news:

WHO warns new COVID-19 wave could loom as delta variant spread through Europe--This isn't US specific but it's basically a glimpse of its future. Take precautions or suffer.

White House to deploy response teams across the U.S. to combat delta Covid variant--Fortunately, the current administration will likely arm them with more than bleach, UV-light and lies, unlike the Trump SHITSHOW of the past four years.

Stay safe, folks.

[PhaelixWW]

Abortion pill aficionado Jason Miller launched another new right wing twitter clone: GETTR. Maybe this will be the one that takes off? lol

I already can't wait for the thoroughly inevitable headline when it fails: "GETTR: Done!"

[beanman12345]

Charges revealed against the Trump Org and it's CFO.


Re CFO Weisselberg:

So I understand Weisselberg has a Lawyer who isn't some joke like Trump tends to hire for legal aid, I have a very hard time imagining she is not trying her damnedest to convince him to cooperate, that 1.7 million, wow, I mean, he ends up wanting to fight this, um, I'd place a Jackson that it's not gonna end well for him.

And I guess they got these charges just in time, SoL was about out on this.

[solinari6]

The big question is, who is: "Unindicted co-conspirator #1" ??

Sources are saying that it is NOT Donald Trump. Lots of speculation though ... could be someone who flipped? Could be Eric Trump (weisselburg's direct boss)?

[cubby]

So I understand Weisselberg has a Lawyer who isn't some joke like Trump tends to hire for legal aid, I have a very hard time imagining she is not trying her damnedest to convince him to cooperate, that 1.7 million, wow, I mean, he ends up wanting to fight this, um, I'd place a Jackson that it's not gonna end well for him.

And I guess they got these charges just in time, SoL was about out on this.

That kind of tax evasion includes enough jail time to Weisselberg incarcerate until death. I hope he turns, as some of those checks written were signed by Trump himself, which means Trump is already culpable.

More updates:

Prosecutors say Trump Org gave Weisselberg approximately $1.17 million in untaxed income
From CNN’s Erica Orden and Sonia Moghe

According to the indictment, the company paid for rent, utilities and garage expenses on a Riverside Boulevard apartment that Weisselberg and his wife occupy.

The indictment says the company maintained internal spreadsheets tracking the amounts it paid for Weisselberg’s rent, utilities and garage expenses, and that it accordingly reduced the amount of direct compensation to account for the expenses it was paying for him. The company didn’t withhold income taxes on the indirect compensation, and Weisselberg reported only his direct compensation on his tax returns, according to the indictment.

Though Weisselberg began living in a Riverside Boulevard apartment rented by the company for him in 2005, he didn’t say he was a New York City resident on his taxes until 2013, when he sold his home in Wantagh, New York, thereby avoiding paying city income taxes, according to the indictment.

Between 2005 and 2017, the company gave Weisselberg approximately $1.17 million in untaxed income connected to rent and related expenses, prosecutors said.

The indictment details that $359,058 in tuition payments to Columbia Grammar school for Weisselberg's grandchildren were paid for from 2012 and 2017, with checks from Donald Trump's account signed by Trump himself, and later from the Donald J Trump revocable trust. CNN has reached out to Columbia Grammar for comment.

More details: The indictment alleges the tuition payments were part of a “scheme to defraud” and that Trump Organization personnel, including Weisselberg, arranged for the tuition payments for Weisselberg’s family members.

Jennifer Weisselberg, Allen Weisselberg’s former daughter-in-law, previously told CNN she believed Trump paid for tuition for her two children to attend the elite private school Columbia Grammar & Preparatory School, and that she shared this information with prosecutors.

Prosecutors allege in the indictment that the payments for Weisselberg’s grandchildren were “indirect compensation” and were not included on Weisselberg’s W-2 forms, and that no income taxes were withheld by the Trump Organization or Trump Payroll Corp. in connection with the tuition payments.

“Weisselberg intentionally caused the tuition payments to be omitted from his personal tax returns, despite knowing that those payments represented taxable income and were treated as compensation by the Trump Corporation in internal records,” the indictment stated.

Now, its possible that Weisselberg is falling on his sword for Trump, to protect the rest of Weisselberg's family from Trump's wrath if Weisselberg flips. If W does that, falls on his sword for Trump, he might be able to argue that he lied to Trump and told Trump that nothing was wrong, thereby preventing Trump from sharing culpability in the crimes. I am guessing here, just to be clear.

- - - Updated - - -

The big question is, who is: "Unindicted co-conspirator #1" ??

Sources are saying that it is NOT Donald Trump. Lots of speculation though ... could be someone who flipped? Could be Eric Trump (weisselburg's direct boss)?

Where are you seeing that? Because it was my understanding that Trump was that person. But yeah, if not him, then who? Didn't Cohen or someone say they knew who the first Trump child to be thrown under the bus would be? Perhaps that's who it is.

[bladeXcrasher]

Interesting Trump quote from the past, lol.

The indictment was brought by then-Manhattan U.S. Attorney Rudy Giuliani. Then-businessman Trump blamed Leona Helmsley — who'd been dubbed "the queen of mean" — for her husband's troubles in a letter that was obtained by the New York Post.

"Without the veil of Harry Helmsley, you would be a non-entity. You would not be able to randomly fire and abuse people in order to make yourself happy," Trump wrote of Leona Helmsley. "What has happened to the legendary Helmsley reputation is indeed sad."


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...tent=algorithm

[solinari6]

Where are you seeing that? Because it was my understanding that Trump was that person.

https://twitter.com/stridinstrider/s...78279367954433

Tom Winter via MSNBC:
"Unindicted coconspirator #1 is NOT Donald Trump."

but really, who knows?

[Kryctos]

I noticed the are advertising gettr with pictures of young attractive women. Is the full name of the social network gettr by the p*ss*?

[beanman12345]

That kind of tax evasion includes enough jail time to Weisselberg incarcerate until death. I hope he turns, as some of those checks written were signed by Trump himself, which means Trump is already culpable.

More updates:


Now, its possible that Weisselberg is falling on his sword for Trump, to protect the rest of Weisselberg's family from Trump's wrath if Weisselberg flips. If W does that, falls on his sword for Trump, he might be able to argue that he lied to Trump and told Trump that nothing was wrong, thereby preventing Trump from sharing culpability in the crimes. I am guessing here, just to be clear.

Yeah, and this is exactly what they were up against with Enron. They needed the money man to flip, and flip he did. But as you said, Trump signed the checks, there is some culpability here, and this is a multi step process, they've gone through the taxes, this is just a taste of what they have against Trump.