1. #70061
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...715928576?s=19

    Haha!

    You see the problem with Democrats are they are not radical enough, fanatical enough and fascists enough to take up insurrection when our dear leader tells us.
    Even if true, (which it isn’t) I’m not sure “but these other people did it too!” is a good legal defense.

    I’m always happy to be surprised, but I’m fairly certain the decision has already been made up in the minds of any and all GOP senators to pretty much ignore the whole proceedings. Knowing this, trumps lawyers are just going to use this whole thing to simply push more of his lies and partisan drivel with the platform and attention the media is supplying.

    Hopefully the democrats have some well-thought out pithy barbs to launch back at them. If the GOP is so morally feckless as to have predetermined to let trump off the hook and this is ultimately just a kangaroo trial of soundbites, the democrats need to be focused on winning that too.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #70062
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I’m not sure “but these other people did it too!” is a good legal defense.
    It isn't.

    But this isn't a legal case, not really. It's "find an excuse so the GOP can vote to dismiss without looking like traitors". And this would be such an excuse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Twitter clarifies that Trump is permabanned, even if he runs again in 2024.

    Our policies are designed to make sure that people are not inciting violence, and if anybody does that, we would have to remove them from the service and our policies don’t allow people to come back.
    Good. I'm glad there will be at least some consequences for his actions.

  3. #70063
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I think many of us knew it was coming and it's part of the reason this thread is likely to remain open for a long while still.

    Georgia Prosecutors Open Criminal Investigation of Trump Phone Call



    Seriously, the amount of litigation and "unfucking" of the TRUMP SHITSHOW is going to be continuing for a long, long time.
    It might keep trump in the news for the next few years but I figure that if it’s constant legal battering and trials then it will serve well to actively denigrate trumps “legacy.” It’ll be hard to engender people to the trump ways or try and paint him as some aspirational leader if he’s continuously swamped in legal battles for tax evasion and coercion. And he’s not eloquent enough to paint himself as some beneficent martyr of political persecution, at least not in the eyes of anyone that hasn’t already drank the koolaid. Especially if Twitter and other platforms keep him off.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #70064
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    So articles like this one point out that Trump's D-team "lawyers" have argued that impeachment isn't called for, because the American people know how to get rid of an administration they don't like: by voting. Which they did.

    But um *ahem* few flaws with that.

    1) The election was before the riot. This immediately invalidates the argument, but I'm not done.

    2) That argument seems to indicate impeachment in general is never called for. Bullshit.

    3) But the biggest issue: Trump claims he won. Trump claimed he won in a landslide, in the speech he gave when inciting the murderous insurrection.

    Basically, Trump's lawyers argued that we shouldn't have the death penalty, not because it's immoral or unethical, but because humans all eventually die. Meanwhile Trump is claiming he's an immortal god.

  5. #70065
    Georgia prosecutors have launched a criminal investigation into former President Trump’s efforts to overturn the state's election results, according to a state official. https://t.co/gotuP2nD0W
    https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/sta...940952065?s=19

    Once more this is an Impeachable offense!

    Let's not forget about Lindsay Graham. My goodness I hope AG Garland has some fortitude.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  6. #70066
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Once more this is an Impeachable offense!
    Wasn't he already impeached for blackmailing government officials into turning an election in his favor? It's buried in this thread, but if Ukraine your neck you can see it towards the middle.

  7. #70067
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wasn't he already impeached for blackmailing government officials into turning an election in his favor? It's buried in this thread, but if Ukraine your neck you can see it towards the middle.
    Bet really tho. This was committed on American soil.

    We all know what happened and caught on tape of Trump actually asking for votes. It can't be much clearer of asking to create votes.

    The Oh BTW part is a state prosecution may have to doe the job the US Congress cannot do. Actually serve Trump justice.
    Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2021-02-10 at 04:23 PM.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  8. #70068
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Bet really tho. This was committed on American soil.

    We all know what happened and caught on tape of Trump actually asking for votes. It can't be much clearer of asking to create votes.
    It was incredibly clear the last time too. They love to handwave with "what he meant was".

  9. #70069
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Wasn't he already impeached for blackmailing government officials into turning an election in his favor? It's buried in this thread, but if Ukraine your neck you can see it towards the middle.
    This time he blackmailed US state government. So 3 impeachments now?
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  10. #70070
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    This time he blackmailed US state government. So 3 impeachments now?
    I think it's all part of this current set of articles.

  11. #70071
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    I think it's all part of this current set of articles.
    Nope. Current articles are only regarding inciting riots using his power of office.

  12. #70072
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    I was thinking a bit about this.

    If the Republicans vote convict it will throw the party into a voter base crisis.

    If the Republicans vote not convict it will also throw the party into a voter base crisis.

    In attempt to amass power and use Trump as political weapon has come with massive consequences.

    Like a shadow priest using Surrender to Madness.

  13. #70073
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    This time he blackmailed US state government. So 3 impeachments now?
    That portion of Trump's deplorableness is being pursued by the Georgia State Attorney General's office. They are opening an investigation, and they are fucking pissed. The GA Secretary of State is a fucking rock amongst lily-pads in the GOP, and I'm sure he's pushing this as hard as he can.

    I'm not sure of the law in prosecuting a former sitting president for state criminal charges, but I bet the GA AG's Office knows.

    This is what I was saying awhile back about the flood gates opening. Trump is about to see an avalanche of criminal and civil suits.

  14. #70074
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...715928576?s=19

    Haha!

    You see the problem with Democrats are they are not radical enough, fanatical enough and fascists enough to take up insurrection when our dear leader tells us.
    This is a common problem. One of the CSPAN callers in PA was ADAMANT that Biden couldn't have won because...he didn't see big crowds at Biden rallies.

    I genuinely wonder if these people struggle with the concept of object permanence, still.

  15. #70075
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Decision to seek federal search warrant in Rudy Giuliani probe could be early test for Biden's DOJ.

    And this is just the first month of Biden's Presidency, and they are pushing hard for Justice.

  16. #70076
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    I was thinking a bit about this.

    If the Republicans vote convict it will throw the party into a voter base crisis.

    If the Republicans vote not convict it will also throw the party into a voter base crisis.

    In attempt to amass power and use Trump as political weapon has come with massive consequences.

    Like a shadow priest using Surrender to Madness.
    Anyone with any sense of foresight knew that this would happen, that Trump would splinter the GOP. Unfortunately for them, the GOP has NEVER been good at thinking long-term, and as such the vast majority of their political gamesmanship has been centered around short-term power-grabs. Instead of looking at the Tea Party and thinking “this could be problematic down the road,” the GOP saw an actionable group that could net them a few seats here and there. Now they’re experiencing the logical conclusion of backing groups of conspiracy-touting, racist lunatics and they’re falling apart as a result.

  17. #70077
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post
    Anyone with any sense of foresight knew that this would happen, that Trump would splinter the GOP. Unfortunately for them, the GOP has NEVER been good at thinking long-term, and as such the vast majority of their political gamesmanship has been centered around short-term power-grabs. Instead of looking at the Tea Party and thinking “this could be problematic down the road,” the GOP saw an actionable group that could net them a few seats here and there. Now they’re experiencing the logical conclusion of backing groups of conspiracy-touting, racist lunatics and they’re falling apart as a result.
    Well, to play devils advocate, the GOP also know the demographics are heavily slanted against them and they are losing ground by the year even with their cheating now and if the Democrats get power they may end up undoing some of the fuckery they have that has enabled them to keep so much power against the will of the people, especially after their actions under Obama.

    They are on the clock and they know it, so they are trying to get as much as they can before they go and burn the rest down on the way out to blame the other guy.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  18. #70078
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    His share of said businesses is an asset, and they can take that. This would therefore strip him of the properties for even less than they're worth.

    Remember, banks aren't charities. They didn't let Trump personally guarantee a loan, if they knew Trump could not pay it back. There are all kinds of loopholes, true, but when you get a loan from a bank, you sign a contract, and they can/will enforce it. Deutsche Bank knows Trump has assets and partial ownership of assets. They also know he can't just give them to Donnie Dum-Dum Jr and shrug, saying "well I guess I'm broke...until you look the other way". Those people didn't get where they were playing fair, but they also didn't get where they were by giving billions to idiots and getting nothing in return.

    If dodging loans with bankruptcy was that easy, everyone would do it (and therefore the rules would change). Imagine if I borrowed $1000 in cash secured with a $1000 computer. I give the cash to @cubby and also the computer, go back to the bank and say "Well I can't pay you". Not only would they take me to court to get the money by completely legal means, I suspect I'd be criminally liable for fraud for giving away the collateral. If @cubby knew what I was doing, he'd be an accomplice, so odds are he'd give the money and/or computer back or he's in trouble too.

    Trump had six businesses that lost a ton of value and they could not pay their creditors. He was partial owner, but he didn't sign the contracts on his behalf, but his companies'. That's closer to the loophole you asked about. But as long as Trump has assets, especially the ones Deutsche Bank told him not to give away or sell, he can't just walk away from this one and claim poverty. Nor can he simply hide it under the rug and hope for the best.

    If, for example, Deutsche Bank comes to reclaim the loan and Trump declares bankruptcy, the courts will decide who gets what share of Trump's owned businesses. If he tries to defraud a bank, Deutsche Bank will bring him up on charges, and still get their money from his family and businesses. People who give out loans aren't typically forgiving sorts that will say "Well, I guess we don't get that billion back, womp-womp" and shrug. They say "you owe us that billion, and if necessary, we'll get it from your grandchildren, now open wide we're going for those fillings".
    @dextersmith

    The above is just spot on. Bankruptcy, while complicated, is essentially closing out debts with remaining assets. Trump can try to play the bankruptcy game and avoid responsibility, but those loans are tied to properties, and each property should be held within it's own corporation (tax/liability trick, to avoid personal liability - like an LLC), so Trump won't have to file personal bankruptcy, but he might start to lose properties if the banks call the loans due.

  19. #70079
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Well, to play devils advocate, the GOP also know the demographics are heavily slanted against them and they are losing ground by the year even with their cheating now and if the Democrats get power they may end up undoing some of the fuckery they have that has enabled them to keep so much power against the will of the people, especially after their actions under Obama.

    They are on the clock and they know it, so they are trying to get as much as they can before they go and burn the rest down on the way out to blame the other guy.
    True to an extent, but look at Florida. Cuban-Americans are by and large staunchly conservative, and are a rapidly growing sub-set of the American populace. Does the GOP think long-term and attempt to court Cuban-Americans and other citizens with Hispanic heritage by stamping out the racist aspects of their party/platform? Nope. Instead they double-down and go for Trailer Trash Barbie (MTG) and the rest of her brood.

  20. #70080
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post
    True to an extent, but look at Florida. Cuban-Americans are by and large staunchly conservative, and are a rapidly growing sub-set of the American populace. Does the GOP think long-term and attempt to court Cuban-Americans and other citizens with Hispanic heritage by stamping out the racist aspects of their party/platform? Nope. Instead they double-down and go for Trailer Trash Barbie (MTG) and the rest of her brood.
    They're doing both, by pretending to be ultra-religious, appealing to the Latino community.

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