Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Bodakane]

People didn't want something different. Trump got the same number of votes Romney did if you account for population growth. Dem voters didn't want to show up for Hillary.

WADR, that doesn't disprove my point.

Dems didn't;t come out for Hillary because she was another typical politician. The votes Trump got, from the independents, were protest votes because of the Dens putting up Hillary. Nothing about Trump's platform was centrist or independent. It was batshit crazy and many people used their vote like a firecracker meant to shake things up. Once he was elected and openly embraced racism and nationalism, then the people turned into cultists.

[pathora44]

In which Trump's own "commission" on voter fraud found nothing. NOTHING.

Maybe I am misremembering this but didn't Trump's voter fraud commission find so much nothing that they closed the commission and hide the results.

[Breccia]

I mean it certainly caused consternation within the US, but Russia seems to perennially forget to actually make itself a better country while bringing others down.

I know @Bodakane and @Poopymonster responded, but I like this one the best. The US spent three years in increasing gridlock and chaos, then COVID. And Russia is still in the same place as before: scrambling for the oil industry and treated as a pariah internationally. Trump wanted Russia back in G8 and that faied.

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Maybe I am misremembering this but didn't Trump's voter fraud commission find so much nothing that they closed the commission and hide the results.

The results were not well hidden.

Also, you and @cubby both left out the part where one of the members was arrested, and one of them died.

[DarkTZeratul]

Maybe I am misremembering this but didn't Trump's voter fraud commission find so much nothing that they closed the commission and hide the results.

Hid and attempted to destroy, if reports are to be believed.

[Bodakane]

I know @Bodakane and @Poopymonster responded, but I like this one the best. The US spent three years in increasing gridlock and chaos, then COVID. And Russia is still in the same place as before: scrambling for the oil industry and treated as a pariah internationally. Trump wanted Russia back in G8 and that faied.

Sure, but 600,000+ dead and the country is about as close to being fully destabilized as ever, outside the Civil War. The Biden election didn't take us out of the storm.

[cubby]

To this day, I wonder if Russia/Putin has buyer's remorse. They went through a lot of effort to help Trump win. Was it worth it?

There is an intelligence leak issue that we, as the public, even if it's wholly discovered and analyzed, will NEVER know about. Manafort and Flynn were just the people we knew about who worked with the Eastern Front, along with Giuliani's stooges. It's possible nothing substantial was leaked to Putin but if you'll recall, @Skroe's analysis on the FIRST person Trump put into place in his new cabinet - the Director of the CIA (not the cabinet post of National Intelligence, not SecDef, not SecState - you get the idea). And the DCI holds ALL the cards.

Pompeo was his pick, and this guy, amongst his many short comings, failed to disclose the links between his company in Kansas and a Chinese government owned firm.

So, buyer's remorse? Probably, but the one thing we do know is that we'll never know.

[Breccia]

Sure, but 600,000+

Russia isn't doing great either, but despite some "genuine" posters' comments, the US handled COVID proportionately far worse than other first-world countries. I doubt Putin helped install Trump saying "well Trump is such a proven anti-vaxxer and so blindingly stupid at any form of listening to experts, that a lethal outbreak will kill their country and Trump will cheer its death" but that's 100% what he said afterwards.

[cubby]

The results were not well hidden.

Also, you and @cubby both left out the part where one of the members was arrested, and one of them died.

You can only dunk so much on one person for one subject, and TexasLives has enough trouble keeping up with the major events of reality, I feared the minutiae would cause an unrelenting tumble.

However, yeah, that part was fucking hysterical.

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Maybe I am misremembering this but didn't Trump's voter fraud commission find so much nothing that they closed the commission and hide the results.

Indeed, along with Breccia's outstanding points. The whole thing was a complete shitshow, aside from essentially confirming reality.

[Ivanstone]

WADR, that doesn't disprove my point.

Dems didn't;t come out for Hillary because she was another typical politician. The votes Trump got, from the independents, were protest votes because of the Dens putting up Hillary. Nothing about Trump's platform was centrist or independent. It was batshit crazy and many people used their vote like a firecracker meant to shake things up. Once he was elected and openly embraced racism and nationalism, then the people turned into cultists.

Or the racist bootstrapper vote didn’t change at all. Sure he might’ve grabbed a few independents but there are people who will vote against the incumbent party because that’s what they do. A racist business man running for office isn’t new or radical.

The Dems need to do the work and make sure people get up and vote. Obama was good at that. Stacy Abrams is also good at that. Hillary was not. She thought she was going to run a victory lap because her opponent was a clown and many people didn’t want to get off the coach because they thought she wouldn’t need their vote. 2016 just showed you can’t take anything for granted.

[Bodakane]

Russia isn't doing great either, but despite some "genuine" posters' comments, the US handled COVID proportionately far worse than other first-world countries. I doubt Putin helped install Trump saying "well Trump is such a proven anti-vaxxer and so blindingly stupid at any form of listening to experts, that a lethal outbreak will kill their country and Trump will cheer its death" but that's 100% what he said afterwards.

I'm not sure why you're thinking I'm saying that was the plan. The plan was to put the worst person possible in charge, because it would do damage to the stability of the US. I'm sure he also hoped it would directly benefit him with some of things you're talking about, but ultimately, the US is far worse off from having 4 years of trump than just about any other 2016 republicans candidate that had a shot. It wasn't a total flawless victory for Putin, but it was a victory.

[PhaelixWW]

Russia isn't doing great either

Also keep in mind that even though places like worldometers is showing Russia's death toll from COVID to be around 150k, the reality is much, much worse. Their excess death numbers are more than three times as high, nearing 500k.

[Bodakane]

Or the racist bootstrapper vote didn’t change at all. Sure he might’ve grabbed a few independents but there are people who will vote against the incumbent party because that’s what they do. A racist business man running for office isn’t new or radical.

The Dems need to do the work and make sure people get up and vote. Obama was good at that. Stacy Abrams is also good at that. Hillary was not. She thought she was going to run a victory lap because her opponent was a clown and many people didn’t want to get off the coach because they thought she wouldn’t need their vote. 2016 just showed you can’t take anything for granted.

Its not new or radical, yet it worked that time.

Make no mistake, if not for the giant shit show that Trump let covid turn into, Biden likely would have lost too.

Trump was different candidate all the way around then we've had in my lifetime. He got independent votes without any independent or centrist planks in his platform. If you think that all adds up to just Hillary thinking she was going to win (even though much of her platform was centrist), that's your prerogative, but its one that doesn't account for the reality of it all.

[cubby]

Don't worry, centrists always win. Mike Pence will run against Biden next election.

All evidence to the contrary. Obama might have been a centrist policy wise, but he was far left in the eyes of the conservative - I mean, can you spell black man? The first black president of the united states was anything but a centrist choice (at the time of the election).

And where have you been the last four years? Trump was the most neo-con hitler-esque candidate we've seen, possibly ever. Even Nixon's "people" were distancing themselves from Trump.

[Xyonai]

I’m gonna go take a shower. Have fun wondering why anyone would possibly be talking about Trump.

Well I guess this explains why not one, but two shillbots showed up at the same time in an attempt to preemptively derail the thread. Always good to know we can count on them to let us know when big news bombshells are about to drop by their - admittedly poor - efforts to try and obfuscate them.

[Breccia]

I'm not sure why you're thinking I'm saying that was the plan

I wasn't. It wasn't very clear. You brought up the COVID death count and I added to the context.

[Ivanstone]

Its not new or radical, yet it worked that time.

Make no mistake, if not for the giant shit show that Trump let covid turn into, Biden likely would have lost too.

Trump was different candidate all the way around then we've had in my lifetime. He got independent votes without any independent or centrist planks in his platform. If you think that all adds up to just Hillary thinking she was going to win (even though much of her platform was centrist), that's your prerogative, but its one that doesn't account for the reality of it all.

Trump did no better than Romney or McCain. He got the exact same amount of votes if you factor in population growth. That’s reality. These alleged independents are phantoms. They’re people who like to label themselves “independent” but always seem to have “criticisms” of only one party.

Hilary lost votes compared to both Obama elections. Arguably the same for Kerry and Gore. She did not inspire people to get off the couch. She did not lose voters to Trump since Trump did not see any gains in GOP voter numbers that’s greater than population growth.

[Bodakane]

Trump did no better than Romney or McCain. He got the exact same amount of votes if you factor in population growth. That’s reality. These alleged independents are phantoms. They’re people who like to label themselves “independent” but always seem to have “criticisms” of only one party.

Hilary lost votes compared to both Obama elections. Arguably the same for Kerry and Gore. She did not inspire people to get off the couch. She did not lose voters to Trump since Trump did not see any gains in GOP voter numbers that’s greater than population growth.

How are you figuring up the population growth = new votes?

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I wasn't. It wasn't very clear. You brought up the COVID death count and I added to the context.

Ahh, fair enough.

[Ivanstone]

How are you figuring up the population growth = new votes?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote...out_statistics

The number of votes a candidate can get potentially gain can either come from other candidates or from a gain in population. Trump got a few million more than Romney but voter turn out also increased by 7.5 million people. He was guaranteed 40-50% of that from the GOP voting bloc. And that’s exactly what he got.

The idea that an Obama voter would vote for Trump sounds like horse shit. A more compelling idea is that same Obama voter didn’t vote at all while new potential GOP voters emerged. The latter group didn’t arrive in particularly large numbers. Just enough of them in a few key states to carry the EC. I’m sure you can dig up a few anecdotes that say the opposite but this question won’t be answered properly until people aren’t allowed to register as independents any more.

[Bodakane]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote...out_statistics

The number of votes a candidate can get potentially gain can either come from other candidates or from a gain in population. Trump got a few million more than Romney but voter turn out also increased by 7.5 million people. He was guaranteed 40-50% of that from the GOP voting bloc. And that’s exactly what he got.

The idea that an Obama voter would vote for Trump sounds like horse shit. A more compelling idea is that same Obama voter didn’t vote at all while new potential GOP voters emerged. The latter group didn’t arrive in particularly large numbers. Just enough of them in a few key states to carry the EC. I’m sure you can dig up a few anecdotes that say the opposite but this question won’t be answered properly until people aren’t allowed to register as independents any more.

It either doesn't make sense or I'm missing something.

If the percentage of voting age voters that voted in 2016 was a normal/expected increase from 2012, then that means the Repubs gained all the new votes, not just that the Dems lost votes....unless the Repubs gained the votes lost by the Dems plus a normal percentage of the new votes.

[Benggaul]

Wednesday's report:

35,447 new cases, about 18k more than two weeks ago. This shit again...

Top 5:

Fuck Florida (worldometers has them at 6,425 new cases).
California: 3,886 new cases; 25 deaths
Texas: 2,610 new cases; 29 deaths
Missouri: 2,240 new cases; no deaths reported--but plenty presumed
Louisiana: 1,936 new cases; 10 deaths

Georgia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, North Carolina and New York round out the top 10, with New York still coming in under 1k. Things are very quickly beginning to look dire again, which was predicted by many experts (including Fauci) when vaccination rates started stalling out in certain areas of the country. I'll be honest and say I didn't expect for us to be over 30k so quickly, but here we are. Very real possibility of being over 40k again by the end of the week. Delta's nothing to fuck around with and now a lot of people are finding out. Summer's going to end much sooner for a lot of them, and for some of them it'll be permanent.

374 deaths is over 50 more than two weeks ago and brings the total to 623,838. Even without any death totals out of Missouri it's starting to look like the national total is probably headed back up. I'm cautiously optimistic that the vaccination efforts thus far by Biden's administration will keep us from hitting the grisly numbers from the end of the TRUMP SHITSHOW, but if things don't turn around quickly we might creep our way back up to 1k territory. Worldometers has Florida at 71 on the day, more than double the second-highest of 29 from Texas.

Related news:

Back to school as COVID worsens

"Sicker, younger, quicker" is how hospital executive Steve Edwards explained a sudden explosion this month in COVID patients in Springfield, Missouri.

COVID-19 Vaccine Hesitancy Rates Still High in Some States

The hesitancy that remains in parts of the country is alarming as COVID-19 cases spike in a majority of states. States seeing some of the highest increases in cases include Alabama, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, Nevada and Tennessee, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. In some of those states – Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Tennessee – vaccine hesitancy rates are higher than 15%, according to the Census Bureau.

Can you get long-haul Covid if you're fully vaccinated? Here's what doctors say--TL;DR: Very rarely. Yet another reason to get the vaccine. COVID is no laughing matter; long-COVID even less so.

Stay safe, folks.