1. #70501
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, we really have to stop giving them the excuse of being stupid or just accidentally ignorant.

    They are aggressively shoring up and defending the conclusions they want to draw. You can tell the difference because someone who just doesn't know shit about something will give you a listen if you give them some real information. These people will not. They will attack you verbally and, sometimes, physically, for daring to not be part of their cultish in-group. There is no information you could possibly give them that will change their minds.

    Worse, they get right into what Orwell was actually talking about when he coined the term "doublethink". Where if people they already trust provide them with that contradictory information, they will just find a way to believe both simultaneously and pretend there is no conflict.

    It's how they can, say, put their trust in Tucker Carlson when he says vaccines are the devil and don't trust them, but also applaud Tucker Carlson for getting vaccinated himself, while also applauding Trump's Warp Speed program for making sure vaccines were available.

    They believe all three of those things. Simultaneously. Even though there's an obvious contradiction. And if you point out that contradiction, that just gets you flagged as "enemy" and they'll do everything they can to make the intellectual threat go away.

    These aren't the people who would've been somewhat concerned but relatively quiet Germans just trying to go about their lives, during the Nazi Reich. These are the people who would've been proudly announcing there are no death camps, while also peeking through neighbour's windows for any signs of a menorah or Star of David so they can report "those Jew fuckers" so the Stasi will take them away and kill them. (quotes used because I'm paraphrasing their mindset not making a comment on Jewishness myself why do I even have to pre-emptively declare stuff that should be obvious from context). They would've been right at the front of Nazi rallies chanting "KILL THE JEWS", but still insistent that genocide is wrong when you call them out on it.

    Seriously, stop giving them excuses. They're not stupid. They're not accidentally ignorant. They're just evil. Fundamentally and deeply desiring to make other human beings suffer for their personal enjoyment or betterment. I'm comfortable with that as a definition for "evil", thanks, before people start trying to tone-police me again.
    This ^ 1000000000%.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  2. #70502
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Seriously, stop giving them excuses.
    Oh, it's not a valid excuse. It's a significant character flaw that leads them into that camp, and it's intentional as you said. There are people who are mentally unwell, but that's not what's going on here.

  3. #70503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, we really have to stop giving them the excuse of being stupid or just accidentally ignorant.

    They are aggressively shoring up and defending the conclusions they want to draw. You can tell the difference because someone who just doesn't know shit about something will give you a listen if you give them some real information. These people will not. They will attack you verbally and, sometimes, physically, for daring to not be part of their cultish in-group. There is no information you could possibly give them that will change their minds.

    Worse, they get right into what Orwell was actually talking about when he coined the term "doublethink". Where if people they already trust provide them with that contradictory information, they will just find a way to believe both simultaneously and pretend there is no conflict.

    It's how they can, say, put their trust in Tucker Carlson when he says vaccines are the devil and don't trust them, but also applaud Tucker Carlson for getting vaccinated himself, while also applauding Trump's Warp Speed program for making sure vaccines were available.

    They believe all three of those things. Simultaneously. Even though there's an obvious contradiction. And if you point out that contradiction, that just gets you flagged as "enemy" and they'll do everything they can to make the intellectual threat go away.

    These aren't the people who would've been somewhat concerned but relatively quiet Germans just trying to go about their lives, during the Nazi Reich. These are the people who would've been proudly announcing there are no death camps, while also peeking through neighbour's windows for any signs of a menorah or Star of David so they can report "those Jew fuckers" so the Stasi will take them away and kill them. (quotes used because I'm paraphrasing their mindset not making a comment on Jewishness myself why do I even have to pre-emptively declare stuff that should be obvious from context). They would've been right at the front of Nazi rallies chanting "KILL THE JEWS", but still insistent that genocide is wrong when you call them out on it.

    Seriously, stop giving them excuses. They're not stupid. They're not accidentally ignorant. They're just evil. Fundamentally and deeply desiring to make other human beings suffer for their personal enjoyment or betterment. I'm comfortable with that as a definition for "evil", thanks, before people start trying to tone-police me again.

    And if you're gonna condemn me for calling Republicans/conservatives/right-wingers all "evil", well. You're the ones drawing that connection, not I.
    I just finished rereading 1984 and the above is a very accurate and simultaneously terrifying summary of the Trump anti-vax movement. Doublethink is alive and well in the GQP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On what I hope is a happier note, the Trump Org Controller (accounting high-end guru for those not familiar with the position) is confirmed to have testified with the Manhattan DA's office earlier this year in their Grand Jury investigation. Jeff McConney has previously testified regarding Trump's actions back in 2017 when the Trump Charity was being investigated and was eventually shut down.

    Source.

    I have to wonder if Vance is sitting in his office with overwhelming evidence showing Trump broke the law and just wondering "are we really gonna do this?". For those of you that brush this thought aside, it is a Bid Fucking Deal to criminally indict a former President of the United States - as no President has even been.
    Last edited by cubby; 2021-07-19 at 09:22 PM.

  4. #70504
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    "are we really gonna do this?"
    Depends how things go, a conviction of Weaselberg, Weaselberg turning, or those tax returns might be enough.

  5. #70505
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I just finished rereading 1984 and the above is a very accurate and simultaneously terrifying summary of the Trump anti-vax movement. Doublethink is alive and well in the GQP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On what I hope is a happier note, the Trump Org Controller (accounting high-end guru for those not familiar with the position) is confirmed to have testified with the Manhattan DA's office earlier this year in their Grand Jury investigation. Jeff McConney has previously testified regarding Trump's actions back in 2017 when the Trump Charity was being investigated and was eventually shut down.

    Source.

    I have to wonder if Vance is sitting in his office with overwhelming evidence showing Trump broke the law and just wondering "are we really gonna do this?". For those of you that brush this thought aside, it is a Bid Fucking Deal to criminally indict a former President of the United States - as no President has even been.
    If the evidence is there and he's questioning whether to do it then he's a coward and the system is broken. He's allowed to take a night to think it over, sure, but if he has the proof, then he must do it.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  6. #70506
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, we really have to stop giving them the excuse of being stupid or just accidentally ignorant.

    They are aggressively shoring up and defending the conclusions they want to draw. You can tell the difference because someone who just doesn't know shit about something will give you a listen if you give them some real information. These people will not. They will attack you verbally and, sometimes, physically, for daring to not be part of their cultish in-group. There is no information you could possibly give them that will change their minds.

    Worse, they get right into what Orwell was actually talking about when he coined the term "doublethink". Where if people they already trust provide them with that contradictory information, they will just find a way to believe both simultaneously and pretend there is no conflict.

    It's how they can, say, put their trust in Tucker Carlson when he says vaccines are the devil and don't trust them, but also applaud Tucker Carlson for getting vaccinated himself, while also applauding Trump's Warp Speed program for making sure vaccines were available.

    They believe all three of those things. Simultaneously. Even though there's an obvious contradiction. And if you point out that contradiction, that just gets you flagged as "enemy" and they'll do everything they can to make the intellectual threat go away.

    These aren't the people who would've been somewhat concerned but relatively quiet Germans just trying to go about their lives, during the Nazi Reich. These are the people who would've been proudly announcing there are no death camps, while also peeking through neighbour's windows for any signs of a menorah or Star of David so they can report "those Jew fuckers" so the Stasi will take them away and kill them. (quotes used because I'm paraphrasing their mindset not making a comment on Jewishness myself why do I even have to pre-emptively declare stuff that should be obvious from context). They would've been right at the front of Nazi rallies chanting "KILL THE JEWS", but still insistent that genocide is wrong when you call them out on it.

    Seriously, stop giving them excuses. They're not stupid. They're not accidentally ignorant. They're just evil. Fundamentally and deeply desiring to make other human beings suffer for their personal enjoyment or betterment. I'm comfortable with that as a definition for "evil", thanks, before people start trying to tone-police me again.

    And if you're gonna condemn me for calling Republicans/conservatives/right-wingers all "evil", well. You're the ones drawing that connection, not I.
    well ya, I mean we covered this back in 2019 when this jem was reported

    -Flordia Trump supporter
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  7. #70507
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    Twitter bans Greene for 12 hours for multiple COVID misinformation posts.

  8. #70508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Twitter bans Greene for 12 hours for multiple COVID misinformation posts.
    That feel when spreading potentially fatal misinformation about a pandemic only gets you 12 hours but impersonating a public figure for the purpose of satire nets you a permaban (yes, his account was suspended for this):



    We live in a society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #70509
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    That feel when spreading potentially fatal misinformation about a pandemic only gets you 12 hours but impersonating a public figure for the purpose of satire nets you a permaban (yes, his account was suspended for this):



    We live in a society.
    Greene seems like the kind of person who, on being told to stop acting like an idiot, doubles down on being an idiot.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if she finds herself swiftly banned again, hopefully for increasing periods of time.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #70510
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas...b01f11895b2dc3

    In a new political low in Texas, the Republican-dominated state Senate has passed a bill to eliminate a requirement that public schools teach that the Ku Klux Klan and its white supremacist campaign of terror are “morally wrong.”
    Republicans are very much the party of, "Are we the baddies?"

  11. #70511
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Fauci demolished Rand during today’s hearing.
    Again? I keeps happening

  12. #70512
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas...b01f11895b2dc3

    Republicans are very much the party of, "Are we the baddies?"
    So I am confused, are the crossed out parts, things that were originally in an existing bill for the curriculum, changes that someone else proposed and was then voted out, or something else? https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87...l/SB00003I.htm
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  13. #70513
    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    So I am confused, are the crossed out parts, things that were originally in an existing bill for the curriculum, changes that someone else proposed and was then voted out, or something else? https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87...l/SB00003I.htm
    Seems like the crossed out parts were part of the original bill, but Republicans don't want kids learning dangerous stuff like about the Underground Railroad and the Civil Rights movement and that the KKK are bad.

    In other news - https://www.newsweek.com/matt-gaetz-...pa-pig-1611405

    Now, I think we can safely say that this is a "joke" coming from Matt Gaetz which is fine and all. But like, when the fuck are conservatives going to start actually being funny? Because these "jokes" aren't actual jokes in that they're not remotely funny, they're just fucking dumb. No wonder there's a severe lack of conservative comedians.

    Edit: And anotha - https://www.politico.com/states/flor...ssment-1388720

    Florida GOP Chair under internal investigation for sexually harassing an aide, denying that any investigation exists.

  14. #70514
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Seems like the crossed out parts were part of the original bill, but Republicans don't want kids learning dangerous stuff like about the Underground Railroad and the Civil Rights movement and that the KKK are bad.
    If that's the case, then it is basically everything... Not just KKK and white supremacy bad, a lot of the crossed out parts are the entire movement towards civil rights for african americans, women's suffrage and the treatment of native americans.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  15. #70515
    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    If that's the case, then it is basically everything... Not just KKK and white supremacy bad, a lot of the crossed out parts are the entire movement towards civil rights for african americans, women's suffrage and the treatment of native americans.
    Can't raise America-hating liberals if you teach them that America was perfect throughout history and that we've never done anything awful : D

  16. #70516
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Fauci demolished Rand during today’s hearing.
    I swear Rand is among the dumbest in the senate so even a technocrat boob like Fauci can run circles around him.

  17. #70517
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Can't raise America-hating liberals if you teach them that America was perfect throughout history and that we've never done anything awful : D
    It is kind of amazing that the legislation has that much power over education. Just wholesale removing entire aspects of history.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

  18. #70518
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Fauci demolished Rand during today’s hearing.
    The problem is that, to the anti-vaxx crowd, it looks like Rand won by a knockout, because they have chosen to be too stupid to know how to keep score. It's like Fauci and Rand are playing golf, and the anti-vaxx nutters think higher scores are better, and it ends up emboldening them even more.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  19. #70519
    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    It is kind of amazing that the legislation has that much power over education. Just wholesale removing entire aspects of history.
    Historically it wasn't so much required since everyone was on board with this kind of historical whitewashing/revisionism. But increasingly as educators aren't, because they're like, actually educated and understand our history, Republicans have had to start enshrining their preferred version of history and civics into law to prevent those pesky librul teachers from actually educating our children.

  20. #70520
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Historically it wasn't so much required since everyone was on board with this kind of historical whitewashing/revisionism. But increasingly as educators aren't, because they're like, actually educated and understand our history, Republicans have had to start enshrining their preferred version of history and civics into law to prevent those pesky librul teachers from actually educating our children.
    Well, they are conservative, gotta conserve that whitewashing status quo.
    Formerly Howeller, lost my account.

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