Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Elegiac]

Irony taking hits from Trump tonight.

All that needs to be said:

It's July 24, 2021, and Trump fans are chanting "Lock her up!" about Hillary Clinton

[Nellise]

They didn't cultivate ignorance and fear.

Many states, like my home state of New York, pushed hard for vaccination and mask mandates. People, employers, employees, businesses, everyone was "encouraged" to take this seriously. This in turn pushed a higher vaccination rate and higher overall awareness.

Despite what the rabid fanbase seem to be pushing, at no point has anyone been vaccinated at gunpoint. But some states were pretty heavy with the stick. Others, such as Florida, more or less handwaved the whole thing. "Oh, it's no big deal. We're not going to let a sniffle stop us from doing business!"

You even explained the problem in your own post. DeSantis is actually fighting people getting fully vaccinated. And yes, Florida has intentionally gotten in trouble before. You'd think they'd learn something, and they have: they've learned that higher-than-average cases and deaths are something they're just going to accept.

Florida, at the top and through the bottom, are fighting the idea that they have to take this seriously. Now their situation is about as bad as it is. Vaccinations are too low. Positiivity is too high. Cases and deaths are too high proportionately and gettting higher. No matter what happens from here on out, states with high vaccination rates will keep those rates. States with low rates can raise them, but Florida is choosing not to.

It's not so much about which states are using active mitigations. It's about which states are standing in the fire.

Florida is middle of the pack as far as vaccinations go, similar to Ohio and Michigan. It has a higher percentage of fully vaccinated people than Illinois overall and over 65, yet I don't see you crapping all over Illinois.

You're purposely misreading my comment about vaccinations and DeSantis. He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer. What he was discussing was whether it'd be better to give one dose to as many people as possible rather than save second doses back when supplies were limited so that healthcare workers and older people would have at least some protection. That was considered in a lot of places, like that conservative hellhole Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...izer-1.6027657

Benggaul noted the return of the LA mask mandate, but does it really do anything if nobody enforces it? https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-mask-mandate

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

[unfilteredJW]

Florida is middle of the pack as far as vaccinations go, similar to Ohio and Michigan. It has a higher percentage of fully vaccinated people than Illinois overall and over 65, yet I don't see you crapping all over Illinois.

You're purposely misreading my comment about vaccinations and DeSantis. He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer. What he was discussing was whether it'd be better to give one dose to as many people as possible rather than save second doses back when supplies were limited so that healthcare workers and older people would have at least some protection. That was considered in a lot of places, like that conservative hellhole Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...izer-1.6027657

Benggaul noted the return of the LA mask mandate, but does it really do anything if nobody enforces it? https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-mask-mandate

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

You are giving him credit for what he is saying now, rather than his actions for the past year and a half.

There is no defense for his actions. He is swine.

[unfilteredJW]

This seems to be an issue with a lot of people, giving credit to the likes of Hannity and such for singular comments now, ignoring what they've been saying for the last 18 months.

It’s horseshit.

He’s kept the state open, removed any ability for local municipalities to enforce mask mandates, and has invited the worst of Americans to come mouth breath all over the state.

I’ll keep in mind how much he’s doing as I have to go to a packed grocery store full of out of state garbage people who refuse to wear a mask because they are on vacation. And no, these selfish cunts aren’t vaccinated, because they are the same selfish cunts that are traveling unvaccinated during a pandemic last summer.

But what’s he doing different asks the poster. Fuck off. I’m sure all the service workers that have been forced to work since last Summer without any kind of protections really care for your defending of the death dealer.

[Gorsameth]

Florida is middle of the pack as far as vaccinations go, similar to Ohio and Michigan. It has a higher percentage of fully vaccinated people than Illinois overall and over 65, yet I don't see you crapping all over Illinois.

You're purposely misreading my comment about vaccinations and DeSantis. He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer. What he was discussing was whether it'd be better to give one dose to as many people as possible rather than save second doses back when supplies were limited so that healthcare workers and older people would have at least some protection. That was considered in a lot of places, like that conservative hellhole Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...izer-1.6027657

Benggaul noted the return of the LA mask mandate, but does it really do anything if nobody enforces it? https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-mask-mandate

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

getting more people 1 shot compared to giving some 2 was a thing countries did months ago when they suffered from vaccine shortages and we not dealing with Delta where partial shots are less effective.

The rest of the first world doesn't have to decide between giving some people 2 shots or more people 1 shot because they are well on their way to vaccinating everyone and actually considering if they shouldn't start giving out 3e shots.

[cubby]

Florida is middle of the pack as far as vaccinations go, similar to Ohio and Michigan. It has a higher percentage of fully vaccinated people than Illinois overall and over 65, yet I don't see you crapping all over Illinois.

You're purposely misreading my comment about vaccinations and DeSantis. He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer. What he was discussing was whether it'd be better to give one dose to as many people as possible rather than save second doses back when supplies were limited so that healthcare workers and older people would have at least some protection. That was considered in a lot of places, like that conservative hellhole Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...izer-1.6027657

Benggaul noted the return of the LA mask mandate, but does it really do anything if nobody enforces it? https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-mask-mandate

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

Florida tops the charts in new COVID cases, with more coronavirus cases this week than California, Texas, New York and Illinois combined.

- - - Updated - - -

He’s kept the state open, removed any ability for local municipalities to enforce mask mandates, and has invited the worst of Americans to come mouth breath all over the state.

And this - perhaps the worst thing anyone in a position of authority could do to fight this pandemic.

[Bodakane]

Florida is middle of the pack as far as vaccinations go, similar to Ohio and Michigan. It has a higher percentage of fully vaccinated people than Illinois overall and over 65, yet I don't see you crapping all over Illinois.

You're purposely misreading my comment about vaccinations and DeSantis. He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer. What he was discussing was whether it'd be better to give one dose to as many people as possible rather than save second doses back when supplies were limited so that healthcare workers and older people would have at least some protection. That was considered in a lot of places, like that conservative hellhole Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canad...izer-1.6027657

Benggaul noted the return of the LA mask mandate, but does it really do anything if nobody enforces it? https://www.latimes.com/california/s...d-mask-mandate

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

We are telling you that Desantis is lying about Florida's numbers, but you then say he's not doing a bad job based on .....the numbers he's lying about?

[unfilteredJW]

We are telling you that Desantis is lying about Florida's numbers, but you then say he's not doing a bad job based on .....the numbers he's lying about?

It’s even ignoring the fact the numbers ARE FUCKING AWFUL.

- - - Updated - - -

But that doesn't really answer my question: what mitigations do other states have now that Florida doesn't?

Florida's vaccination rate is about middle of the road for the country, so it's not an extreme outlier there. I can't find anything that says Florida had an extreme number of excess deaths either. Most things I can find show it middle of the pack there too (I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this, but the CDC's excess death page is wonky and I couldn't find a good way to look at their data, so found other articles).

Florida had a thing last summer too, at almost exactly the same time period, where cases spiked super high when the rest of the country was fairly low. The pattern is almost identical.


BTW, this is a bit of a baity headline:
DeSantis bucks science, suggests one dose of Pfizer vaccine may be enough. At the time the article was written, it was up for debate whether it might be better to just get a first shot to as many people as possible when doses were limited to get more people some protection rather than none, which is sort of what I believe the UK did, so it wasn't a crazy idea, even if now it doesn't seem like the better way to do it.

I’ll make it real easy for you.

Other states aren’t inviting every sack of shit that doesn’t take this seriously to come play in packed bars and beaches and forget this whole thing is even happening.

That’s your fucking difference.

[Nellise]

You are giving him credit for what he is saying now, rather than his actions for the past year and a half.

This seems to be an issue with a lot of people, giving credit to the likes of Hannity and such for singular comments now, ignoring what they've been saying for the last 18 months.

I'm not giving him credit for anything he's saying now. The article was from December when there were limited supplies of vaccine. That's when he made those comments about delaying second doses. And I'm only referring to that one article which Benggaul even admitted he included inadvertently, but Breccia purposely mischaracterized my comment about it to make it sound like DeSantis was suggesting something bad which wasn't the case.

And this - perhaps the worst thing anyone in a position of authority could do to fight this pandemic.

Every state has been completely open and without mask mandates for the past month. Once the CDC said vaccinated people could go without masks everywhere dropped the requirements. I've seen commercials for a few states advertising tourism again, it's not just a Florida thing. Here's the website for Chicago tourism: https://www.choosechicago.com/plan-your-trip/covid-19/ where the first line reads: "Chicago is now fully open..."

[unfilteredJW]

I'm not giving him credit for anything he's saying now. The article was from December when there were limited supplies of vaccine. That's when he made those comments about delaying second doses. And I'm only referring to that one article which Benggaul even admitted he included inadvertently, but Breccia purposely mischaracterized my comment about it to make it sound like DeSantis was suggesting something bad which wasn't the case.



Every state has been completely open and without mask mandates for the past month. Once the CDC said vaccinated people could go without masks everywhere dropped the requirements. I've seen commercials for a few states advertising tourism again, it's not just a Florida thing. Here's the website for Chicago tourism: https://www.choosechicago.com/plan-your-trip/covid-19/ where the first line reads: "Chicago is now fully open..."

We've been open since last May.

We've been unable to enforce a mask mandate locally since last May.

[D Luniz]

I can get elected Dems not wanting to print out a banner of what the GOP has said to allow COVID to persist, wrap it around a stick and use it to come a close as you possibly can to beating them with their own words over this because of the political blowback when the GOP would scream about "the cruel dems bullying them".

but seeing that this

is the shit that is getting spread around, I at the least would cover the costs at kinkos, what they do with the banner afterwards, well, Im just gonna look the other way.

[unfilteredJW]

It’s depressing that DeSantis thinks Florida should just suck it up and expect every tourist season to also kill of a percentage off their residents.

It's just infuriating reading someone defend this clown while I spent the last year in hellish self isolation because a bunch of faux wealthy cunts from the south wanted to party.

[Nellise]

We've been open since last May.

We've been unable to enforce a mask mandate locally since last May.

So a policy that's been the same for over a year has caused the surge in the past few weeks? A surge that's happening in all 50 states?

My point isn't to defend DeSantis. It's to show that the problem exists everywhere and focusing just on Florida is missing the forest for one stupid, awful tree. Everywhere has mostly given up trying to deal with this, DeSantis just gave up earlier than everywhere else.

When cases got really low a month or so ago, that would've been a great time to step up contact tracing and other local mitigation efforts to try to stop any new surges like this, but nobody did anything so another big surge was inevitable.

[unfilteredJW]

So a policy that's been the same for over a year has caused the surge in the past few weeks? A surge that's happening in all 50 states?

My point isn't to defend DeSantis. It's to show that the problem exists everywhere and focusing just on Florida is missing the forest for one stupid, awful tree. Everywhere has mostly given up trying to deal with this, DeSantis just gave up earlier than everywhere else.

Fine. You earned your eyeroll. Enjoy.

[Kaleredar]

It’s depressing that DeSantis thinks Florida should just suck it up and expect every tourist season to also kill of a percentage off their residents.

He’s literally the mayor from jaws.

Killer shark on the loose? Why, it’s tourism season! We’ve no time for your cockamamie stories about “eviscerated college students” and “little boys pulled under in a fountain of blood!” THINK OF THE ECONOMY!

[Breccia]

He was advocating that more people get vaccinated, not fewer.

He said something three days ago, yes. He also pushed the at-the-time unvaccinated population to mix and mingle and do business pretty much since day one. So he's part of the problem, pretending not to be.

New York and California's cases have quadrupled in the past 3 weeks, so wtf are they doing wrong?

I linked CDC data, you're exaggerating about at least New York. NYC and NYState are both less than quadruple, close to the USA's triple.

Florida is over six times, as I also cited from the CDC data. You are defleting. I don't know why you're trying to protect Florida by citing states that are objectively doing better than Florida, but your attempt fails in the face of objective evidence, y'all.

[cubby]

Every state has been completely open and without mask mandates for the past month. Once the CDC said vaccinated people could go without masks everywhere dropped the requirements. I've seen commercials for a few states advertising tourism again, it's not just a Florida thing. Here's the website for Chicago tourism: https://www.choosechicago.com/plan-your-trip/covid-19/ where the first line reads: "Chicago is now fully open..."

I guess you're missing the point on past tense statements. DeSantis refused mask mandates and wouldn't close obvious areas. DeSantis is one of the worst actors during this entire pandemic - not now, but during the entire thing.

You're judging him on the past two months, when his entire performance is under scrutiny. Claiming that he's "doing a great job" now is entirely disingenuous. Because he was responsible for so much death and misinformation over the past year plus.

- - - Updated - - -

When cases got really low a month or so ago, that would've been a great time to step up contact tracing and other local mitigation efforts to try to stop any new surges like this, but nobody did anything so another big surge was inevitable.

Where is you data for this? Where are you seeing that "no one did anything"?

[s_bushido]

but seeing that this

is the shit that is getting spread around

Is it still? It wouldn't surprise me, but it looks like that picture is at least a year old. Surely they've come up with new misinformation to share in the meantime.

[Kaleredar]

Is it still? It wouldn't surprise me, but it looks like that picture is at least a year old. Surely they've come up with new misinformation to share in the meantime.

To be fair, it’s not like the people who spread those infographics around check to see whether they’re true or up to date or not.

[s_bushido]

To be fair, it’s not like the people who spread those infographics around check to see whether they’re true or up to date or not.

True. I just can't imagine how much death there would have been in Florida if they had a city as large/dense as NYC. The current situation in the state is dogshit, but that would have been downright tragic.