Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Biglog]

What's funny is that a budget can both be balanced and the state can have debt.
And Florida does have a debt.

Having debt does not mean you don't have a balanced budget ... one does not relate that way.

While they are related (having an unbalanced budget can lead to debt, but also could lead to surplus), it is akin to saying because a person isn't hungry, they have a full fridge. Or because a person is at a location, they drove there. It ignores other possibilities.

This "banner" is a great example of why the right is so misinformed. The numbers on this are completely false. The *correct* Florida Covid # is that there have been 2.48M Covid cases. But in a post that is meme-level it's very easy to cherry-pick or manipulate #'s since most on the right are more interested in spreading a message supporting their political stance then sharing factual info. It is very consistent that these meme type shared posts from the right literally fail even the smallest 5 minute fact check every single time, yet they get parroted day after day. People that fact check unfollow/unfriend them, people that don't look for others with similar misinformed knowledge, and it becomes a clique of people agreeing on false facts like a flat earther club.

The "banner" highlights 2 problems. For one, whoever found and shared this should be aware that the source they got it from passed them false info. I would consider a source passing false info not credible and wouldn't use it again. But for some reason the right doesn't mind if sources aren't credible and goes right back to them. And no cherry picking #'s to support a false narrative even from Reuters doesn't make the case. The actual fact is that Florida has had more Covid cases than New York. Cherry picking 1 day where Florida was lower than New York even if the # is from Reuters is also intentionally misleading, especially when trying to use it in the context of comparing overall performance of governors.

Also, it doesn't take much thought to understand that since that # is wrong, all this banner is saying is a population and state income tax, which is a law DeSantis had nothing to do with putting in place. Why is the banner trying to argue that DeSantis is somehow a good governor because in *2007* Florida instituted a 0% state income tax. DeSantis not only was NOT Florida Governor then (2018), he wasn't even in politics yet lol. But sure put that down as an achievement of his because it's assumed no one will fact check that either. And even that's without folks understanding that states without income taxes still get their money through other taxes that they people that live there are quite aware that they pay; sales tax, property, vehicle, toll taxes, etc. Like Texas, Florida can't magically pay for roads, schools, infrastructure, etc. without taxes. Not having a state income tax (federal is the big one anyway and still have that in Florida), is just a shell game since the revenue still comes in via other taxes that are generally proportionally higher than states without state income taxes. It's not hard to get rid of the state income tax if you simply increase sales tax ~3%. The money out of the pocket of a person living there will be the same. But I guess it sounds better if you don't think it all the way through.

Second, it's an example of most of the attacks from the right in that they are extremely concise. Like meme/twitter/fb sharing in a picture short. This is because it's easy to make a claim that sounds appealing to the majority as long as they don't fact check or think too much about the post. It also can be consumed by folks that are not terribly educated or exactly experts at critical thinking. They tend to write these aimed at folks with that won't fact check or put a lot of thought into what's being claimed. It might be worth pondering why that is.

[Nellise]

...whole bunch of stuff....

Did you have fun rebutting an argument I wasn't making? I remembered why I usually give up discussing things with you because you make up your own arguments and claim you win. I was specifically responding to the comments made in the quote I had in my post. The only comparison I was making between NY and FL is that neither did a good job over the last year, unless you think 20,000 deaths is doing a good job (and yes, before you even start Florida did an even worse job, two things can both be bad while being unequally so). And Florida has been repeatedly accused of doctoring its death numbers even though there isn't really evidence of it and I was giving evidence they're their death number reporting isn't unusual compared to other states.

[Bodakane]

Did you have fun rebutting an argument I wasn't making? I remembered why I usually give up discussing things with you because you make up your own arguments and claim you win. I was specifically responding to the comments made in the quote I had in my post. The only comparison I was making between NY and FL is that neither did a good job over the last year, unless you think 20,000 deaths is doing a good job (and yes, before you even start Florida did an even worse job, two things can both be bad while being unequally so). And Florida has been repeatedly accused of doctoring its death numbers even though there isn't really evidence of it and I was giving evidence they're their death number reporting isn't unusual compared to other states.

Its been explained numerous times by numerous posters and you just keep ignoring it.

- The FL numbers are a lie, DeSantis did much worse. There has also been significant evidence they've been doctoring the numbers and much of that evidence has been provided to you.
- NY has NYC which is the most densely populated place in the US (and waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy more than anywhere in FL) and most of their numbers came at the beginning of this.
- NY has tried to do everything it can to get a handle on this while DeSantis, just said fuck it.
- Desantis has politicized this by attacking Fauci and sucking off Trump.
- FL never shut down. I live here.

[Breccia]

And Florida has been repeatedly accused of doctoring its death numbers even though there isn't really evidence of it

This is a lie. You are lying.

First of all, there is an entire thread on it on these very forums.

Second of all, even if we hadn't discussed it on these forums before, which we have, here's an article from the Miami Herald from a month ago.

The Orlando Sentinel also had some articles.

You said they didn't doctor their numbers, you lied. You said there was no evidence, you lied about that too. And yes, I had so much fun ripping your "I'm not defending DeSantis but isn't he just the best" argument to shreds in broad freaking daylight.

Genuine posters don't come here to spout misinformation and objective falsehoods. Please post constructively.

[Zan15]

So they take in over 63 billion in welfare to keep their state running and even running like a lazy frat kid off his parents money they still have a 2+ billion deficit. And the guy causing it has aspirations of being president…..

If NY was funded at the same % as florida they would have either lower taxes or a balanced budge.

Just medicaid florida is funded 11% more from the feds than NY's base rate.
That's another 8+ billion dollars in funding.



https://www.osc.state.ny.us/press/re...nts-washington
https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/re...-year-2019.pdf

imagine NY got back dollar for dollar. That would be 27 billion more


Even worse if you compare it to Florida


New York -27 billion Florida + 69.8 billion. So if they got the same level of funding as Florida it would be 97 billion dollars more for the state.

3,248 per capita.


Imagine how much lower the taxes in NY would be huh?

[Breccia]

Trump Doctor goes on Hannity to intentionally fuel conspiracy theories. Specifically, Trump's doctor, who never examined Biden, says Biden is falling apart and will resign soon because he's senile.

And yes, they talked about that cognative test again.

[Ivanstone]

Reminder:
2020 POTUS Election Biden:
5.3m from NY, 5.3m from FLA
2020 POTUS Election Trump:
3.3m from NY, 5.7m from FLA

New York is still going to do poorly because upstate NY is chock full of dipshit Trump supporters who don't want to get vaccinated or take any other precautions.

[Breccia]

New York is still going to do poorly because upstate NY is chock full of dipshit Trump supporters who don't want to get vaccinated or take any other precautions.

...yeah...it's not as bad as further south, but it's bad. We created Stefanik.

[Dontrike]

And Florida has been repeatedly accused of doctoring its death numbers even though there isn't really evidence of it and I was giving evidence they're their death number reporting isn't unusual compared to other states.

Because they were, didn't you find it odd they had thousands more pneumonia deaths last year than they normally have? (Look up a few other red states that also seemingly had thousands more pneumonia deaths for no reason.) Unless people were being bit by diseased rats constantly there's no reason for that to happen, and if rat bites were happening there would have been that story, but there wasn't. Seriously, what don't you get?

[Fugus]

God this Trump cult is annoying. Got my brother in law in Florida of all places that is DEEP in the cult. My niece came up to visit some for this summer and see her mom.

Her mom CLAIMED she wanted to get her vaccinated but just never got around to even getting her started, she is about to go back down on the first. I actually pushed the issue some today and she said fine and for me to take her. The niece ended up telling her dad who texted and said not to and if anyone did HE would call the authorities.

So, she is about to go back to Florida of all places with her Trumphadi dad who tried to say I can live "In a life of fear" when he is the one too scared to get the vaccine because he is afraid it is some form of control while the virus "Is just like the flu".

He is also someone who tried to tell me what a "Doctor" online said in a video he watched which would have gotten the man laughed out of a High School Biology class but he believes it because it tells him what he wants to hear.

He is also someone who says he never relied on Welfare in his life when I know he used to get $600-800 a month in Food Stamps, his kids were on Government Healthcare, and his wife (My sister) is on Medicare for her diabetes. It's just since it was all in her name, it didn't count.

He also "Started on the bottom and worked his way up the latter" when I know he did illegal stuff for the first half of his life till he either lucked into a job that started off paying better than half the jobs in the nation or used his connections to buy his way into it, not sure which. And then started working his way up from there. Effectively jumping off the latter until he could jump back on half way up.

God I am hoping his pride and ego don't end up getting these kids hurt or killed. I am not a parent or legal guardian and don't have the authority and my sister refuses to stand up to him even after he tried to force her into a polygamist marriage against her wishes at which point she still refused to leave him until he left her for his side chick. And she STILL won't stand up to him at this point. And I am not even going into everything at this point.

[Azadina]

God this Trump cult is annoying. Got my brother in law in Florida of all places that is DEEP in the cult. My niece came up to visit some for this summer and see her mom.

Her mom CLAIMED she wanted to get her vaccinated but just never got around to even getting her started, she is about to go back down on the first. I actually pushed the issue some today and she said fine and for me to take her. The niece ended up telling her dad who texted and said not to and if anyone did HE would call the authorities.

So, she is about to go back to Florida of all places with her Trumphadi dad who tried to say I can live "In a life of fear" when he is the one too scared to get the vaccine because he is afraid it is some form of control while the virus "Is just like the flu".

He is also someone who tried to tell me what a "Doctor" online said in a video he watched which would have gotten the man laughed out of a High School Biology class but he believes it because it tells him what he wants to hear.

He is also someone who says he never relied on Welfare in his life when I know he used to get $600-800 a month in Food Stamps, his kids were on Government Healthcare, and his wife (My sister) is on Medicare for her diabetes. It's just since it was all in her name, it didn't count.

He also "Started on the bottom and worked his way up the latter" when I know he did illegal stuff for the first half of his life till he either lucked into a job that started off paying better than half the jobs in the nation or used his connections to buy his way into it, not sure which. And then started working his way up from there. Effectively jumping off the latter until he could jump back on half way up.

God I am hoping his pride and ego don't end up getting these kids hurt or killed. I am not a parent or legal guardian and don't have the authority and my sister refuses to stand up to him even after he tried to force her into a polygamist marriage against her wishes at which point she still refused to leave him until he left her for his side chick. And she STILL won't stand up to him at this point. And I am not even going into everything at this point.

You know the solution, even if you don't want to do it: cut ties. Cold, but it's that simple. Sometimes it's the only reasonable option left.

[Darththeo]

Did you have fun rebutting an argument I wasn't making? I remembered why I usually give up discussing things with you because you make up your own arguments and claim you win. I was specifically responding to the comments made in the quote I had in my post. The only comparison I was making between NY and FL is that neither did a good job over the last year, unless you think 20,000 deaths is doing a good job (and yes, before you even start Florida did an even worse job, two things can both be bad while being unequally so). And Florida has been repeatedly accused of doctoring its death numbers even though there isn't really evidence of it and I was giving evidence they're their death number reporting isn't unusual compared to other states.

There were literally reports of Florida choosing not to count non-resident deaths to COVID that happened in the state as deaths at all. So if you died in a Florida Hospital while on vacation because of COVID, you were not in their reports. There are whistle blowers who reported that the deaths were underreported.

- - - Updated - - -

God this Trump cult is annoying. Got my brother in law in Florida of all places that is DEEP in the cult. My niece came up to visit some for this summer and see her mom.

Her mom CLAIMED she wanted to get her vaccinated but just never got around to even getting her started, she is about to go back down on the first. I actually pushed the issue some today and she said fine and for me to take her. The niece ended up telling her dad who texted and said not to and if anyone did HE would call the authorities.

So, she is about to go back to Florida of all places with her Trumphadi dad who tried to say I can live "In a life of fear" when he is the one too scared to get the vaccine because he is afraid it is some form of control while the virus "Is just like the flu".

He is also someone who tried to tell me what a "Doctor" online said in a video he watched which would have gotten the man laughed out of a High School Biology class but he believes it because it tells him what he wants to hear.

He is also someone who says he never relied on Welfare in his life when I know he used to get $600-800 a month in Food Stamps, his kids were on Government Healthcare, and his wife (My sister) is on Medicare for her diabetes. It's just since it was all in her name, it didn't count.

He also "Started on the bottom and worked his way up the latter" when I know he did illegal stuff for the first half of his life till he either lucked into a job that started off paying better than half the jobs in the nation or used his connections to buy his way into it, not sure which. And then started working his way up from there. Effectively jumping off the latter until he could jump back on half way up.

God I am hoping his pride and ego don't end up getting these kids hurt or killed. I am not a parent or legal guardian and don't have the authority and my sister refuses to stand up to him even after he tried to force her into a polygamist marriage against her wishes at which point she still refused to leave him until he left her for his side chick. And she STILL won't stand up to him at this point. And I am not even going into everything at this point.

Sounds like your niece would be better off with literally anyone but him. And sounds like your sister needs a new husband.

[Bodakane]

Link

Here's an article talking about how bad of a job Desantis has done in regards to Covid. If you want to ignore the Democrat lawmakers quoted in the article, go for it. I'll stipulate they are biased and their opinion should be thrown out. The quotes from Florida doctors OTOH..............

“The consequence of his leadership has been a steep rise in Covid-19 cases and increased numbers of Floridians dying,” Dr. Frederick Southwick, a University of Florida physician and member of the Committee to Protect Health Care, told WPBF News in Palm Beach.

“As a physician and a Floridian, I am frankly angry and ashamed,” said cardiologist Dr. Bernard Ashby, who leads the committee’s Florida chapter, according to WLRN.

“At the same time as DeSantis says the vaccines are effective—which they are—he’s also banning businesses from requiring proof of vaccination,” Dr. Mona Mangat, an immunologist who is also a member of the physicians’ committee, told WLRN. “He has taken away private companies’ ability to protect their employees and customers by requiring the safe and readily available vaccine.”

Instead, DeSantis is trolling the administration and selling merchandise mocking Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert and chief medical advisor to the White House. His campaign store is selling t-shirts that say “Don’t Fauci my Florida” and a koozie with a DeSantis quote: “How the hell am I going to be able to drink a beer with a mask on?”

But Ashby is not impressed. “If DeSantis were as concerned about stopping Covid-19 spread as he was about coming up with these clever jabs at Dr. Fauci we might not be in this position,” Dr. Ashby said.

[Fugus]

You know the solution, even if you don't want to do it: cut ties. Cold, but it's that simple. Sometimes it's the only reasonable option left.

The only contact I have with him is over the nieces. The problem is I have no legal authority when it comes to them and my sister for some reason is still hung up on him and refuses to go against him.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like your niece would be better off with literally anyone but him. And sounds like your sister needs a new husband.

The nieces already say they don’t want to live with him and want to come up here. As far as my sister, she doesn’t need a new husband, she needs to learn to do what needs to be done and stop just hoping for things to magically work out.

She needs to understand that her and him are over and done and aren’t going to get back together and even if they did, it would be the worst possible thing for her and the kids.

Honestly, my family is a good reason why I try to be so logical and put pride aside when dealing with the facts because when emotions get into it, it’s like everyone turns into dumbasses. They want what they want and instead of basing their views and goals on the facts, it’s like they try and twist and throw out the facts as they like to get to the goal they want.

[Breccia]

Rand Paul sends official criminal referral for Fauci, for lying to Congress, to the DoJ.

No, really.

"I send this with no sense of irony," Paul didn't say but might as well have, "because there's no chance someone like me ever lied about COVID to Congress ever ever."

Then he went to work out in the Senate gym.

[Kaleredar]

The only contact I have with him is over the nieces. The problem is I have no legal authority when it comes to them and my sister for some reason is still hung up on him and refuses to go against him.

- - - Updated - - -



The nieces already say they don’t want to live with him and want to come up here. As far as my sister, she doesn’t need a new husband, she needs to learn to do what needs to be done and stop just hoping for things to magically work out.

She needs to understand that her and him are over and done and aren’t going to get back together and even if they did, it would be the worst possible thing for her and the kids.

Honestly, my family is a good reason why I try to be so logical and put pride aside when dealing with the facts because when emotions get into it, it’s like everyone turns into dumbasses. They want what they want and instead of basing their views and goals on the facts, it’s like they try and twist and throw out the facts as they like to get to the goal they want.

I don’t want to get you in any legal hot water so take this as more of a musing but… is it actually illegal to vaccinate someone “without parental consent?” Like, what legal statute could you actually be sued under?

[Edge-]

I don’t want to get you in any legal hot water so take this as more of a musing but… is it actually illegal to vaccinate someone “without parental consent?” Like, what legal statute could you actually be sued under?

https://schoolhouseconnection.org/st...-medical-care/

It appears to vary by state. This is more about the states that allow minors to receive care without parental consent, but I imagine doctors/care providers would be in hot water otherwise (not sure the exact consequences).

[Breccia]

is it actually illegal to vaccinate someone “without parental consent?”

I saw @Edge- answered, but I would imagine doing anything medical to someone else's kid is a really bad idea.

[Benggaul]

I don't do reports Sundays and Mondays because over half the nation doesn't report in the weekend, but there's this:

Provincetown issues new mask mandate amid Covid-19 case surge after Fourth of July

Still no mask mandates from Florida. Fuck Florida and DeathSantis.

[Fugus]

Yeah, I can’t do it without parental consent and the dad is a guy who literally tried to tell me that Democrats were a bunch of devil worshippers who would burn in hell trying to justify his double standard on how they acted when I pointed out his hypocrisy.

And my sister refuses to actually stand up to him on anything. The dumped her after treating her dirty and even with one of the kids staying with her she refuses to even go for child support or ask for money to help.

This crap is beyond annoying to deal with but stuck around it because of family involved.