1. #70821
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Remember kids, report ALL income to the IRS no matter where it comes from.
    Yeah, but don't tax crimes still need a jury trial? You are never going to get a jury without at least a couple Trump cultists in it. And they will never vote to convict.

  2. #70822
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    Yeah, but don't tax crimes still need a jury trial? You are never going to get a jury without at least a couple Trump cultists in it. And they will never vote to convict.
    Jurors can be thrown out after trial starts if it's clear they are not impartial.

    Obviously this is rarely done and difficult to apply, but if the jury foreman basically has proof that one/two jurors are just refusing all evidence, logic, and reason, then that juror cannot serve impartially.

    I'm sure @cubby knows more about this, all I have is "this can happen".

  3. #70823
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Jurors can be thrown out after trial starts if it's clear they are not impartial.

    Obviously this is rarely done and difficult to apply, but if the jury foreman basically has proof that one/two jurors are just refusing all evidence, logic, and reason, then that juror cannot serve impartially.

    I'm sure @cubby knows more about this, all I have is "this can happen".
    I mean, maybe ... but I think the optics of having to throw out multiple trump supporting jurists, in order to get a conviction will be REALLY bad. I mean, trump and his followers think he's getting railroaded NOW. If that happens, they will never shut up about it.

  4. #70824
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    I mean, maybe ... but I think the optics of having to throw out multiple trump supporting jurists, in order to get a conviction will be REALLY bad. I mean, trump and his followers think he's getting railroaded NOW. If that happens, they will never shut up about it.
    As opposed to them not shutting up about having won the election, or them not shutting up about *insert X wild conspiracy*.

  5. #70825
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    As opposed to them not shutting up about having won the election, or them not shutting up about *insert X wild conspiracy*.
    I know, its just so f*ing depressing we have to deal with these people for the foreseeable future.

    And really, my concern is, that when/if Trump actually is put in jail for something, there WILL be protests. And violence. And the more "unfair" the proceedings seem, the worse the violence will be.
    Last edited by solinari6; 2021-02-24 at 03:11 PM.

  6. #70826
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    Yeah, but don't tax crimes still need a jury trial? You are never going to get a jury without at least a couple Trump cultists in it. And they will never vote to convict.
    True that all felonies are to be tried in front of a jury but it would take place in NYC where we know that Trump is really not liked by a lot of people there. I'm pretty sure it is easy to get a jury to convict there. At the pretrial jury selection, you can remove a juror for nearly any reason(if a lawyer is deceptive enough, literally any reason).

  7. #70827
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    Yeah, but don't tax crimes still need a jury trial? You are never going to get a jury without at least a couple Trump cultists in it. And they will never vote to convict.
    Doesn't matter. You won't want to take the time to do defense.
    It's like a car accident that totals both vehicles; neither side will be happy regardless of liability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    I mean, trump and his followers think he's getting railroaded NOW. If that happens, they will never shut up about it.
    When have they ever shut up?

  8. #70828
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    I mean, maybe ... but I think the optics of having to throw out multiple trump supporting jurists, in order to get a conviction will be REALLY bad. I mean, trump and his followers think he's getting railroaded NOW. If that happens, they will never shut up about it.
    Trump supporters not shutting up about Trump facing an actual proper trial doesn't matter.

    Trump & co needs to face consequences for the actions they are guilty of, period.

  9. #70829
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    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    I think the optics of having to throw out multiple trump supporting jurists, in order to get a conviction will be REALLY bad.
    If I remember correctly:

    Pre-trial, both sides get to exclude a certain number of jurors before anything happens at all.

    The part I was discussing was a juror who is being completely unreasonable during the trial itself. At that point, the "optics" are no longer your problem. Let's imagine that the press immediately interviews a Trump supporter ejected from a jury for refusing to be logical. Imagine what that interview is like.

    No really, do it.

    See? At that point, he's the aggressor and the one causing problems.

  10. #70830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Jurors can be thrown out after trial starts if it's clear they are not impartial.

    Obviously this is rarely done and difficult to apply, but if the jury foreman basically has proof that one/two jurors are just refusing all evidence, logic, and reason, then that juror cannot serve impartially.

    I'm sure @cubby knows more about this, all I have is "this can happen".
    Bias jury members can be thrown our, especially during voir dire (jury selection process), depending on the local rules of procedure. High profile cases (typically murder) give both prosecuting and defense attorneys a number of "strikes" wherein they can remove a juror for no set reason. They can also remove jurors if obvious bias comes out during the question and answer period. Granted - those cultists will certainly lie to avoid being struck, so of course some will probably get on.

    However, juries don't have to be unanimous to convict. Most crimes require a majority of jurors to convict. Sometimes it's as little as 7 (of 12) up to 10 (of 12). We'll have to see though.

    Your concerns, @solinari6, are very valid and one of the biggest issues to deal with if and when Trump sees a jury trial.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    I think the optics of having to throw out multiple trump supporting jurists, in order to get a conviction will be REALLY bad.
    The defense would get the same privilege though - to "toss out" bias jurors. The case would also likely be held in strict media blackout - no press, jurors sequestered, etc.

  11. #70831
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    I don't think it'd even get that far.

    This will be one of those strange cases where voir dire might be more interesting than the actual trial, though.

    It's not like the prosecuting attorneys would have to dig very hard to find evidence of cultism on prospective jurors.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  12. #70832
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    House Minority Leader McCarthy and GOP Chairwoman Cheney were asked about Trump attending and speaking at CPAC. Fucking awesome:
    House Republican Chair, Rep. Liz Cheney, openly disagreed with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy on whether former President Donald Trump should be speaking at the annual Conservative Political Action Conference. (Feb. 24)

    Video Transcript
    REPORTER: Just very briefly, [INAUDIBLE] leadership, especially Congresswoman Cheney, do you believe President Trump should be speaking, or former President Trump, should be speaking at CPAC this weekend?

    KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, he should.

    REPORTER: Congresswoman Cheney?

    LIZ CHENEY: That's up to CPAC. I've been clear on my views about President Trump and the extent to which following January 6, I don't believe that he should be playing a role in the future the party or the country.

    KEVIN MCCARTHY: On that high note, thank you all very much.

    [LAUGHTER]

  13. #70833
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    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Well, we do have a real life example of this not being true. Remember Al Capone? The IRS sure did and got him when the FBI couldn't. Same will happen with Trump. One thing that I've learned over time is that you can get away with murder but you screw over the IRS(or any taxation authority), you're ass is going to jail. Think of this, the IRS doesn't give a damn if you got your money from getting paid from selling drugs, killing someone or any other major crime. All they want is their cut of it. And the thing is, multiple mob bosses have gone to jail over the years for the same thing. Not from ordering hits against anyone, not from selling drugs or robbing people. They all went to prison for tax evasion.

    Remember kids, report ALL income to the IRS no matter where it comes from.
    Even in early 90s children's cartoons, they know to fear the IRS

    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  14. #70834
    75,299 new cases, about 24k fewer than two weeks ago.

    Top 5:

    Texas: 7,426 new cases; 311 deaths
    Fuck Florida.
    New York: 6,370 new cases; 127 deaths
    California: 5,863 new cases; 312 deaths
    North Carolina: 3,346 new cases; 109 deaths

    Texas is still topping the list, though it appears yesterday's 10k total may have been a correction. Testing there is still abysmal and their positivity is creeping back up, so I'm expecting them to remain at or near the top of the list for a while. Nationally the positivity has leveled off just below 5% which is "good enough" for reopening, but on the state level many are far above--you wouldn't be surprised which those are in general.

    2,525 deaths is about 900 fewer than 2 weeks ago and brings the total to 518,363. This again matches the trend in the weeks prior to the storm with an average 450 drop per week. Texas just missed overtaking California at the top by one 2 deaths as California's totals continue to drop. 38 states still posted double-digit or more death totals.

    Related news:

    US hits game-changing moment in COVID-19 fight--A new "one-shot" vaccine from Johnson & Johnson is just about ready for emergency-use authorization and it looks like it's standing up relatively well to the newer COVID-19 variants. The sooner (and safer) the better.

    New data suggest 'long COVID' symptoms last up to 9 months: Fauci

    Researchers have referred to the symptoms as Post-Acute Sequelae of COVID-19 (PASC), which can often develop some time after the initial infection and can range from being mild to "incapacitating," Fauci stated.

    "The magnitude of the problem is not fully known," Fauci said.

    He also noted that people who were not required to be hospitalized as a result of contracting COVID-19 or who had symptoms not associated with their infection also reported PASC.
    So, yah. Not the flu.

    Stay safe, folks.

  15. #70835
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    True that all felonies are to be tried in front of a jury but it would take place in NYC where we know that Trump is really not liked by a lot of people there. I'm pretty sure it is easy to get a jury to convict there. At the pretrial jury selection, you can remove a juror for nearly any reason(if a lawyer is deceptive enough, literally any reason).
    He'll hardly be accountable anyway. The worst he'll get is house arrest, probation, or a resort for the rich.

  16. #70836
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    Quote Originally Posted by dextersmith View Post
    He'll hardly be accountable anyway. The worst he'll get is house arrest, probation, or a resort for the rich.
    I hate to say it, but I don't see Trump actually being in a prison, if convicted on any charge he currently faces. Former Residents are allowed Secret Service protection, and any idiot could make the argument that Trump wouldn't be safe in a prison. So house arrest is what it will be, at worst.

    However - and this is a big "relative" however - that kind of prison would be very impactful to Trump. Not as bad, of course, but no access to people or crowds or internet or anything, really, except bad food shitty tv and his own insane thoughts bouncing around that pinball of a head he calls a brain. That kind of punishment would be relative torture to Trump. And because it's almost guaranteed to be the best we can get from any criminal conviction, it's what we'll have to settle for.

  17. #70837
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I hate to say it, but I don't see Trump actually being in a prison, if convicted on any charge he currently faces. Former Residents are allowed Secret Service protection, and any idiot could make the argument that Trump wouldn't be safe in a prison. So house arrest is what it will be, at worst.

    However - and this is a big "relative" however - that kind of prison would be very impactful to Trump. Not as bad, of course, but no access to people or crowds or internet or anything, really, except bad food shitty tv and his own insane thoughts bouncing around that pinball of a head he calls a brain. That kind of punishment would be relative torture to Trump. And because it's almost guaranteed to be the best we can get from any criminal conviction, it's what we'll have to settle for.
    No golf would destroy him. It’s his favorite thing to do that isn’t related to watching TV.

  18. #70838
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    No golf would destroy him. It’s his favorite thing to do that isn’t related to watching TV.
    Ha! Yeah, that alone might do it. However, those home arrest orders can be pretty restrictive. I'm pretty sure TV is allowed, but not social media, and certainly not political rallies. All guests would be barred - attorney visits only. And he couldn't communicate with the outside world. Period.

    However, if he is convicted and house-arrested(??), he wouldn't be able to splinter the GOP. And right now I'm trying to figure out in my little brain which would one I'd rather have.

  19. #70839
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ha! Yeah, that alone might do it. However, those home arrest orders can be pretty restrictive. I'm pretty sure TV is allowed, but not social media, and certainly not political rallies. All guests would be barred - attorney visits only. And he couldn't communicate with the outside world. Period.

    However, if he is convicted and house-arrested(??), he wouldn't be able to splinter the GOP. And right now I'm trying to figure out in my little brain which would one I'd rather have.
    Nah, he’d be the face on a screen that is calling from his “prison”. They’d allow him to do that shit since his career would be predicated on speaking fees at that point.

  20. #70840
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Ha! Yeah, that alone might do it. However, those home arrest orders can be pretty restrictive. I'm pretty sure TV is allowed, but not social media, and certainly not political rallies. All guests would be barred - attorney visits only. And he couldn't communicate with the outside world. Period.

    However, if he is convicted and house-arrested(??), he wouldn't be able to splinter the GOP. And right now I'm trying to figure out in my little brain which would one I'd rather have.
    Actually, they COULD theoretically put him in one of the lower prisons that are pretty cushy by comparison with his own private guard detail paid for by the secret service. Would be much cheaper for the tax payer than him getting full secret service while he goes around and he is still forced to live in prison. But yeah, they will probably go easy on him.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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