Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

How does this shit not fall under the "yelling fire in a crowded movie theater" part of unprotected speech?

Because the victims are theoretical. Nobody is coming door-to-door with vaccines. We have proof, it's called Florida's death count.

[cubby]

How does this shit not fall under the "yelling fire in a crowded movie theater" part of unprotected speech?

@Breccia is spot on here. Her speech is violent, but it's not directed at any one/thing, and it's clearly falling short of that bright line of yelling fire. And Bodakane, I'm not jumping on you with that use of "clearly", I use the word "clearly" here for a reason - because your point is absolutely spot on. If I were the prosecutor I would send a law clerk to the "library" to get me updated case law on inciting violence through speech. Because she's damn close to that line.

The reason I use "clearly" above is because while Marge might be totally batshit insane, she's not entirely stupid. She is specifically not in a literal sense "yelling fire in a crowded theater", and therefore avoiding any legal entanglements, while at the same time calling for violence and certainly using that "lone wolf"-ish verbiage that white supremacists call on all the time.

She is a dangerous person who continues to avoid the criminal charges she so richly deserves.

[Elegiac]

Marge

I prefer "Klan of Greene Gables", personally.

[PhaelixWW]

I prefer "Klan of Greene Gables", personally.

If you really wanted to be petty, you could change that to "Klan of Greene Stables", I guess.

The horse-face isn't really her fault , though, so... maybe not?

[postman1782]

Ron Watkins, self professed Qcumber leader, said he had election fraud evidence, but when he sent it out, it was nothing but spam. And when these people opened this evidence, their phones and other devices were hacked. It literally took over their calendars on their phones.

https://mashable.com/article/qanon-r...ification-spam

[PhaelixWW]

Ron Watkins, self professed Qcumber leader, said he had election fraud evidence, but when he sent it out, it was nothing but spam. And when these people opened this evidence, their phones and other devices were hacked. It literally took over their calendars on their phones.

https://mashable.com/article/qanon-r...ification-spam

Slight exaggeration. The phones weren't "hacked" or "taken over", it just spammed their calendar with tons of scheduled notifications.

[Azadina]

@Breccia is spot on here. Her speech is violent, but it's not directed at any one/thing, and it's clearly falling short of that bright line of yelling fire. And Bodakane, I'm not jumping on you with that use of "clearly", I use the word "clearly" here for a reason - because your point is absolutely spot on. If I were the prosecutor I would send a law clerk to the "library" to get me updated case law on inciting violence through speech. Because she's damn close to that line.

The reason I use "clearly" above is because while Marge might be totally batshit insane, she's not entirely stupid. She is specifically not in a literal sense "yelling fire in a crowded theater", and therefore avoiding any legal entanglements, while at the same time calling for violence and certainly using that "lone wolf"-ish verbiage that white supremacists call on all the time.

She is a dangerous person who continues to avoid the criminal charges she so richly deserves.

So, what, could Biden also randomly say "2A any trumpkin you see in the head, don't worry about it", and all is well?

Like how the f does it fly what she's saying. I don't get it even with your explanation.

[Dontrike]

Ron Watkins, self professed Qcumber leader, said he had election fraud evidence, but when he sent it out, it was nothing but spam. And when these people opened this evidence, their phones and other devices were hacked. It literally took over their calendars on their phones.

https://mashable.com/article/qanon-r...ification-spam

Surprised it didn't get lost in the mail like with Tucker's "evidence."

[D Luniz]

So, what, could Biden also randomly say "2A any trumpkin you see in the head, don't worry about it", and all is well?

Like how the f does it fly what she's saying. I don't get it even with your explanation.

probably something closer to palin's bs of "2nd amendment solutions"
like

"We use 2nd amendment solutions to put down insurrectionists"

likely covered legally, but ethically, no one would question that was a call for violence.

[Benggaul]

Thursday's report:

120,945 new cases, roughly 22k more than last Thursday.

Top 10:

Fuck Florida (over 20k according to worldometers).
Texas: 14,173 new cases; 69 deaths
California: 11,725 new cases; 58 deaths
Georgia: 5,806 new cases; 32 deaths
Louisiana: 5,468 new cases; 33 deaths
North Carolina: 4,331 new cases; 24 deaths
Missouri: 3,946 new cases; still not reporting deaths
New York: 3,390 new cases; 14 deaths
Tennessee: 3,292 new cases; 15 deaths
Mississippi: 3,164 new cases; 16 deaths

Just in case anyone thought Florida was stuck on 17k daily new cases (like they were stuck on "42 deaths" last year--remember that?), you can rest assured it's much worse than that. Last week they had 21k for Saturday which was unusual because like most of the nation they tend to underreport in the weekend, so this isn't the first time in the latest wave they've hit 20k, but there's a good chance they'll hit it again today and possibly tomorrow as well. DeathSantis certainly isn't doing anything to mitigate the numbers and continues actively preventing others from doing so. Texas also has a good chance to head into the 20k region within a week or so if their "mastery" of the pandemic slips some more. California's curve has been much shallower than those of either Florida or Texas, but is still continuing to rise. Mask mandates and a decent vaccination rate are certainly helping them keep the increase to more of a trickle than a deluge. New York has 6 times less (fewer?) cases than Florida despite having more or less the same population. Again, precautions matter.

559 deaths is around 140 more than last Thursday and brings the total to 631,879. I've continued to look for Missouri's numbers but keep getting blocked from some sites due to EU restrictions, so again if anyone else wants to do some digging and find out what the fuck is keeping them from reporting their death totals, by all means share. Florida again topped the list with 84, next was Texas and then California. The national total remains relatively low compared to last year, but every preventable death is regrettable and shameful.

Related news:

Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC chief says--Again, I feel like the experts are a few weeks behind the rest of us as we've been saying for a while now that even if you're vaccinated you should still observe COVID precautions. You may be more protected, but you can still infect others. Wear your mask.

FDA targets early September for COVID-19 booster strategy--Boosters have been in the news more and more lately and it's become increasingly likely in the face of variants like Delta (and Lambda and the as-yet-unnamed Colombian variant), so pay attention when they start rolling them out. Get your jabs.

Children's COVID-19 infections are rising in Florida and Texas, and many of them are among kids who are too young to be vaccinated--BECAUSE THE FUCKING MORON "ADULTS" IN THE STATE WON'T PROTECT THEM. DeathSantis banned mask mandates--also in schools. Abbott also signed an EO banning mask mandates. Charge them with negligent homicide for every child that dies to COVID because they wanted to suck up to Trump's base by handcuffing schools, daycares, etc.. "Protecting the rights of parents" my ass.

Stay safe, folks.

[D Luniz]

like to add to Benggaul's report

Harris county has upped the COVID-19 alert system to Red:Severe lvl 1, or the highest threat level

so while Abbot is trying to be Desantis lite, at the county and city level, some people are trying to protect the people that elected them

[Benggaul]

like to add to Benggaul's report

Harris county has upped the COVID-19 alert system to Red:Severe lvl 1, or the highest threat level

so while Abbot is trying to be Desantis lite, at the county and city level, some people are trying to protect the people that elected them

The same is happening in some Florida cities/counties with a handful of mayors openly critical of DeathSantis and defying his ban on mask mandates. Glad there's a line somewhere, but I think it's too little; too late.

EDIT: Links for those interested:

Local mask mandates pop up in defiance of Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order banning COVID-19 restrictions
Some Florida School Districts Issue Mask Mandates Defying DeSantis' Order

[D Luniz]

Mike Pillow out here melting down as his “symposium” approaches. Check out the video for his CNN interview in which a reporter tells him he’s got evidence of nothing and that what he’s claiming isn’t even possible. Mike cries that he’s spent millions and couldn’t possibly be wrong. It’s kinda funny and scary at the same time. I’m not sure how he’s going to react after his “symposium”.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/polit...nvs/index.html

I hope he really did pay out millions to someone, that just cheated him

[Ursus]

I hope he really did pay out millions to someone, that just cheated him

Damnit, if only I would have thought of that first, those could have been my millions.

[Bodakane]

Damnit, if only I would have thought of that first, those could have been my millions.

There's an implication in what you said that he wouldn't fall for it again. I say go for it.

[alexw]

The same is happening in some Florida cities/counties with a handful of mayors openly critical of DeathSantis and defying his ban on mask mandates. Glad there's a line somewhere, but I think it's too little; too late.

EDIT: Links for those interested:

Local mask mandates pop up in defiance of Gov. Greg Abbott’s executive order banning COVID-19 restrictions
Some Florida School Districts Issue Mask Mandates Defying DeSantis' Order

Correct. The people who are entering hospitals now are the people who got infected 2-3 weeks ago, and the Delta variant is far more infectious to start with so there are a hell of a lot more people due to get really sick in 2-3 weeks time. On top of that the covid deniers are dug in now and won't be changing their minds either.

At least the one potential upside might be that DeathSantis' political career might be destroyed.

[Edge-]

At least the one potential upside might be that DeathSantis' political career might be destroyed.

I hate that thousands will die, and far more will suffer for this. But hey, they voted for him. You reap what you sew, and he was a transparent fuckin moron from the get-go.

[Elegiac]

I hate that thousands will die, and far more will suffer for this. But hey, they voted for him. You reap what you sew, and he was a transparent fuckin moron from the get-go.

To be fair, given the sheer degree of voter suppression in the South it's hard to tell who actually has a popular mandate. It may very well be most Floridians didn't vote for DeSantis.

[Edge-]

To be fair, given the sheer degree of voter suppression in the South it's hard to tell who actually has a popular mandate.

I imagine the tens of thousands of older residents dying, plus plenty others suffering from the virus or seeing their friends die around them, might impact the next Republicans chances of winning (Crist's numbers are going up!). But given the Republican electorate, that's not something I'd place money on.

[Elegiac]

I imagine the tens of thousands of older residents dying, plus plenty others suffering from the virus or seeing their friends die around them, might impact the next Republicans chances of winning (Crist's numbers are going up!). But given the Republican electorate, that's not something I'd place money on.

If it does they'll likely just drop the pretense and jettison any attachment to democracy or America entirely like they did back in the 1860s.

Which we're seeing currently, even to the level of rooting against the US' own athletic teams.

The Olympics are typically a boom time for jingoism: patriotic fervor heightening among Americans of all stripes with each gold medal for Team USA. But this year, we’ve seen an unlikely faction of Americans rooting against our athletes: conservatives.

During a late July rally, President Donald Trump claimed that “Americans were happy” about the women’s soccer team losing to Sweden — a loss that he blamed on “wokeism” turning the squad “demented.” Tomi Lahren called Team USA “the largest group of whiny social justice activists the Olympics has seen in decades,” accusing them in a Tuesday Fox News segment of engaging in “typical leftist so-called activism.” And after the men’s basketball team lost to France, Newsmax host Grant Stinchfield said he “took pleasure” in their defeat.

“The team is filled with anthem kneelers — and I find it ironic that they’re willing to put USA on their chest when, in the not so distant past, they would kneel for the anthem. Somebody ought to go up there and just rip USA off their chest,” said Stinchfield, who briefly went off the air earlier this year after insinuating that Jewish Americans are foreigners during a monologue.

These attacks on Team USA are not just culture war red meat; they are a reflection of a rising tendency in the conservative movement to reject America itself. In this thinking, the country is so corrupted that it is no longer a source of pride or even worthy of respect. In its most radical versions, you even see cheerleading for revolution or civil war.

Conservative anti-Americanism still pays lip service to love of country: Its proponents declare themselves the true patriots, describing their enemies as the nation’s betrayers. But when the cadre of traitors includes everyone from election administrators to Olympians to the Capitol Police, it becomes clear that the only America they love is the one that exists in their heads. When they contemplate the actual United States — real America, if you will — they are filled with scorn.

“They see no role or place for themselves in America now,” says Paul Elliott Johnson, a communications professor at the University of Pittsburgh who studies conservative rhetoric.

And ironically enough, that's one of the few things they get right: there is no role or place for fascists in modern America.