Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Corvus]

Yep, they don't do anything until it directly effects them. Then they try to do everything they can, too little too late for the 6 that died.

It shouldn't have needed to have been up to them though. It should have been the governments responsibility. But, yeah, Florida.

[Benggaul]

HORK HORK HORK!! **slaps fins together** HORK HORK HORK!!

Sorry, don't know what came over me.

Anyway, there's this:

U.S. teachers' union shifts stance to back vaccine mandate as COVID surges

COVID-19 vaccinations should be required for U.S. teachers to protect students who are too young to be inoculated, the head of the nation's second-largest teachers' union said on Sunday, shifting course to back mandated shots as more children fall ill.

"The circumstances have changed," Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, told NBC News' "Meet the Press" program. "It weighs really heavily on me that kids under 12 can't get vaccinated."

"I felt the need ... to stand up and say this as a matter of personal conscience," she said.

The number of children hospitalized with COVID is rising across the country, a trend health experts attribute to the Delta variant being more likely to infect children than the original Alpha strain.

Almost 90% of educators and school staff are vaccinated, according to a White House statement echoed by Weingarten in other television interviews last week.

I mean, good, but I'm disappointed it took them this long. I'm also not sure how much weight this carries. Perhaps one of our resident educators like @Breccia has more of an insight.

[s_bushido]

I mean, good, but I'm disappointed it took them this long.

I feel like a lot of this crap could have been avoided if various agencies didn't rush to give the go-ahead to open shit up again. Which could have been avoided if half the political spectrum hadn't refused to believe that restrictive measures should have been put in place to begin with...

[unfilteredJW]

I feel like a lot of this crap could have been avoided if various agencies didn't rush to give the go-ahead to open shit up again. Which could have been avoided if half the political spectrum hadn't refused to believe that restrictive measures should have been put in place to begin with...

Their handlers tend to get mad when their profits aren’t prioritized.

[Breccia]

Perhaps one of our resident educators like @Breccia has more of an insight.

I wish I could, but I'm in New York State, whose state mandates are likely going to be as strong or more likely stronger than anything applied nationwide. I'm also college, not K-12. So I'm a little out of the loop on this one.

I can tell you that [url=https://auburnpub.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ny-teachers-union-says-no-to-any-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/article_44a9964e-b04e-5311-af95-bc9812fada2a.html]the NY teachers union opposed mandatory vaccines, requiring instead everyone who can't/won't get one be tested rigorously. And they basically said that to Cuomo's face. If they said it in NYState last week, in NYState, than this change you've cited is both new and substantial.

Having survived the pandemic, I can tell you that a lot of the teachers I know hate change in general. I know a spectrum from "everything can and must be done with chalk and slate" to "which of three apps should my students use?" The move to online teaching was not great on, erm, "the Matlock crowd". We've all seen the stories of retirements, and I can personally add my own anecdotal non-data set. Teaching also tends to be an older profession. These BLS numbers put the average age in education older than average, for example. It's possible that the resistance for this long was due to concern about, well, states as intentionally self-destructive as Florida resisting and trying to break the union. (Yeah, because the South has proven so strong in educashun y'all) But I'm thinking it could be the age thing. It's not religion. And I can't imagine even a single public school teacher who doesn't get a state govt vaccine. They've been second on the list after doctors since it started.

I can answer the "it took you long enough" thing. Teachers, sorry to say, aren't, um, swift with a lot of things. It's possible they wanted this to happen a while ago and it took them this long to get their act together.

But as we've been saying, schools are focus points for things like this. Schools are how lice, chicken pox, and common colds spread. Someone gets it, their kid gets it, they bring it to school, everyone gets it. I got a panicked phone call last year when one of my niece's schoolmates got it, and not even one she hangs out with. Her school threw everyone off campus a day or two later. In the K-12 system, a teacher in...let's say "English" will see everyone else's kids of at least that same year, maybe several years. A sick teacher could infect dozens or hundreds depending on the school. Or, viewed from my notoriously selfish point of view, old teachers are at greater risk of a child killing them.

Sorry I can't be of more help. I was never personally asked to vote on anything -- NYState pretty much handled it for me, not that I object to their decisions.

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I feel like a lot of this crap could have been avoided if various agencies didn't rush to give the go-ahead to open shit up again

Teachers were straddling the fence. The sudden shift to online teaching wasn't everyone's best friend. A lot of teachers wanted the hell out of that, and the union very likely chose to push for re-opening rather than lose even more of their workforce. It's not like it would be easy to replace. I can understand the joint decision "everyone come back to in-person classes and everyone vaccinate yourselves" even if I don't necessarily stand behind the first half.

Teachers have a lot of inertia. It would take me a solid academic year to swap a textbook for my rinky-dink public school. Telling everyone "okay shift to online and keep it there" would be like asking truckers "you have to make your routes in reverse until we tell you otherwise".

[Nastard]

Do you really wish that aliens would come to earth and enslave the human race, using us as a food source?

YES, of course I would. Who wouldn't like that; to be part of the eating scene.

[Kaleredar]

As much as I’d like to see him in prison, I don’t see it happening, tbh.

I’d be at least semi-content with “embroiled in legal and financial battles” during the 2024 election period.

[Breccia]

Court rules with cruise company over DeSantis. DeSantis' ban on "vaccine passports" is struck down, not just as unConstitutional, but a public health risk.

Critics of the law said it was never passed with the intent to work, but to score political points. DeSantis is due to appeal but almost certainly sure to lose.

I'm no expert, but I browsed the 60-page ruling and regretted it. However, there's a bit near the end that stuck out. Norwegian basically said that the ban would cause them harm (which the court says they could not back up, but that Florida didn't even bother trying to show how Florida'd suffer harm, so...) and could not sue Florida for those damages caused by Florida's ban.

The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens or subjects of any foreign state.

-- the 11th Amendment

Because Norwegian is....Norwegian...they couldn't sue Florida. Therefore, Florida was forcing Norwegian to lose money, and forcing them to be unable to get it back. I'm going to ask @cubby how this applies to any business that's registered in the other 49 states -- which I believe we've briefly discussed with regards to social media companies based in nonFlorida.

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A school district in Dallas has a mask mandate, in direct opposition to Gov. Abbott.

Adding to what I said before on the subject, they said
a) attendance is mandatory but
b) distance learning "is not an option at this time"
so they're going with the mask mandate.

Now it's unlikely this followed the Norwegian lawsuit on account that a Dallas school district can't hide behind the 11th Amendment. Based mostly on my own biased experience, it sounds like they're saying "We'd rather take the fine for the mandate than deal with the added obstacles and risk of death by complying with the governor". There is a national teacher shortage, Texas is not an exception. Even if the combination of the mandate block and the additional online learning "only" cost Texas 10% of their teachers, there aren't enough people willing to work in such situations to replace that loss.

This is just one district of course, but the school year starts all too soon. Districts who are going to defy the no-mask-mandate-mandate will need to announce that basically now. We're about to find out if this is just one blue district doing this on their own, or if they're leading the way to a full-scale revolt in Dallas, Houston, and Austin. (Red farm school districts will of course follow the governor until their own students and staff are sick/dying)

[YUPPIE]

As much as I’d like to see him in prison, I don’t see it happening, tbh.

He has too much personal power and influence over the masses. It's like an El Chapo situation.

Except Trump isn't going to die like a villain.

[Benggaul]

**throws fish into the busy highway**

[Endus]

He has too much personal power and influence over the masses. It's like an El Chapo situation.

Except Trump isn't going to die like a villain.

You seriously think a handful of fat redneck shitmongers are gonna be enough of a threat to keep Trump out of prison?

We saw their best and brightest, on January 6th. They're not a threat. They're incompetent buffoons. Nobody's scared of them. They'd be funny if they weren't so pathetic.

[YUPPIE]

You seriously think a handful of fat redneck shitmongers are gonna be enough of a threat to keep Trump out of prison?

We saw their best and brightest, on January 6th. They're not a threat. They're incompetent buffoons. Nobody's scared of them. They'd be funny if they weren't so pathetic.

actually, not even considering the civilian Trump supporters you mentioned, you have to consider he is a world-class criminal with connections to the political criminal underworld. Mafias, cartels, neo-nazi bases, etc. That's a huge factor as to why people don't want to prosecute or go against Donald Trump legally, as depressing as it is.

[Breccia]

Oh, and something more about Florida.

Florida's biggest one-day report was Jan 2, and it was 30,000 cases. They had never before and never since hit 30k.

@Benggaul of course knows why: they hadn't reported over the holiday weekend. The Miami Herald reported:

On Saturday, the first reporting day of 2021, the Florida Department of Health confirmed 31,518 additional cases, the highest number recorded yet since the pandemic began — and that’s counting data dumps and two-day reported figures post-Thanksgiving (17,344 on Nov. 27) and post-Christmas (17,042 on Dec. 26).

The state did not report figures on New Year’s Day, Friday. As was the case with Thanksgiving and Christmas Day holiday, Florida is reporting two-day today figures in its post-holiday report.

Florida has now a total of 1,354,833 confirmed cases. Also, 217 new resident deaths were announced, bringing the resident toll to 21,890. Two-day totals for deaths after holidays were 140 on Dec. 26 and 109 on Nov. 27.

At the time, it was "oh it's just because it followed a low-reporting holiday" which...is still pretty bad, but at least understandable. And you'll notice that those other figures are sub-20k. In fact, other than the Jan 2 slow-report spike, Florida had never passed 20k either.

Until recently.

Florida has reported four days over 20k since July 30. In fact, the last two weeks look like this:



As you can see, those four days are not following any holidays or no-results days (those are the flat sections). Florida is just that bad, in their own context. Barring any data fudging by smoothing out spikes by failing to report, four of their worst five days have happened in the last 14 days.

And yes, their 7-day rolling average has never been this high.

Just to make this clear:
Florida is highest in number of cases, beating California and Texas by a substantial margin.
Florida is highest in number of hospitalizations, beating Texas and California by a substantial margin.
Florida is highest in deaths, beating Texas and California.

Proportionately, they're just about as far ahead from their 2nd place challenger -- roughly an extra half.

Numbers are bad, but proportions are more important. Florida's news there is better in that they're not #1 across the board.

Florida is second highest in cases per capita. Louisiana is #1. The top ten are all red states except the Virgin Islands.
Florida is highest in hospitalizations per capita. They are ahead of their allies Louisiana and Mississippi by a substantial margin. Per capita.
Florida has moved up and is now #6 in deaths per capita, again if you include the Virgin Islands. Arkansas and Louisiana are fighting it out for the top spot.

Compared to the nation as a whole, which includes Florida which yes means this is a fractal of fuckery, Florida has almost three times the number of cases, three times the hospitalizations, and "only" 2.5x the number of deaths. Deaths lag, but it's been a while and Florida's deaths still remain better than I expected. My figurative hat is off to their health care system. I thought it would be much worse than this -- and this is still bad.

I briefly flirted with the idea of comparing the rest of the USA vs just Florida, but there's no point. I've made my point.

Well...one of them.

The USA has about 33 cases per 100,000 people; 19 hospitalized per 100,000 people; and 0.16 deaths per 100,000 people.

Illinois has, in order, 19, 10, and 0.09.

Massachusetts has 14, 4, and 0.03.

Both these states are doing better than the national average -- much better, actually. Anyone who dares to call out Illinois or Massachusetts must call out Florida for being far worse, or by omission self-declare as trolls.

[uuuhname]

actually, not even considering the civilian Trump supporters you mentioned, you have to consider he is a world-class criminal with connections to the political criminal underworld. Mafias, cartels, neo-nazi bases, etc. That's a huge factor as to why people don't want to prosecute or go against Donald Trump legally, as depressing as it is.

he's literally been under a criminal investigation for years now... and you realize if he turns or makes life hard for those criminals they're not going to stick their necks out for him lmao they're more likely to put a hit out on him.

[YUPPIE]

he's literally been under a criminal investigation for years now... and you realize if he turns or makes life hard for those criminals they're not going to stick their necks out for him

That's literally the purpose of a hitman or the kind of criminal we're talking about here though? They want money, Trump is a billionaire. Therefore, in mutual interests, they protect Trump and get paid. Considering, as you said, he's been under criminal investigation for years and is still fine, what else would you make of it? He has all these criminal connections and the best lawyers at the helm.

[Omega10]

That's literally the purpose of a hitman or the kind of criminal we're talking about here though? They want money, Trump is a billionaire. Therefore, in mutual interests, they protect Trump and get paid. Considering, as you said, he's been under criminal investigation for years and is still fine, what else would you make of it? He has all these criminal connections and the best lawyers at the helm.

You said in another post that you threw away your morals and moved to the far right. A perfect play for completely immoral people.

I didn't expect you to so blatantly be a supporter of basically mafia bosses and the tactics they use to stay in power, but here you are.

[YUPPIE]

You said in another post that you threw away your morals and moved to the far right. A perfect play for completely immoral people.

I didn't expect you to so blatantly be a supporter of basically mafia bosses and the tactics they use to stay in power, but here you are.

I don't know where you came to this conclusion for this particular conversation, but I am only pointing out all of this is why Trump is not in prison or going to prison in response to someone else. That is all.

Also a bit off-topic: right-wing ideologies don't necessarily correspond to Trump and Trump only. There are other problems I have, and I didn't even specify Trump in that post.

[uuuhname]

That's literally the purpose of a hitman or the kind of criminal we're talking about here though? They want money, Trump is a billionaire. Therefore, in mutual interests, they protect Trump. Considering, as you said, he's been under criminal investigation for years and is still fine, what else would you make of it?

so now we're past the point of even pretending that Trump is a successful businessman but a middleman for murderous criminals? and acting like that's a positive? like no, there's no money to be made keeping Trump alive if he does what every mafioso and mafioso wannabe does which is flip the second they get brought in to save his own ass from seeing a prison cell. like, that's literally why the mob doesn't exist anymore, they all flipped and ratted each other out. Trump would be worth more in a body bag than alive if he does anything to disrupt the cartels.

[YUPPIE]

so now we're past the point of even pretending that Trump is a successful businessman but a middleman for murderous criminals?

well yeah, that's what he is himself: a criminal.

[uuuhname]

well yeah, that's what he is himself: a criminal.

so where is El Chapo now? is he still on the run? oooh.