Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Azadina]

Just because they ignore the deaths of the "brown-skinned people" doesn't mean that we should. Those Afghans were innocent victims, too.

Some were, some were not. Reportedly around 30 was Taliban. They are plenty of things, but innocent or victim isn't one of those things.

[Breccia]

Hey @Benggaul

A group of parents sued DeSantis over his mask ban ban and won.

Leon County Circuit Judge John Cooper ruled in favor of a group of parents who sued DeSantis over his executive order, arguing it was unconstitutional. He ruled the order is “without legal authority” and is by definition “arbitrary” and “capricious.”

Cooper issued an injunction stopping the Department of Education from taking any action against local districts that require masks in schools without a parental opt-out.

Not just the Kings of Leon district. They can all do this.

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We'll see how far this goes. The House Murderous Insurrection Panel has asked social media platforms to turn over the records of the murderous insurrectionists.

I expect the tech giants not to comply, not because they're shielding murderous insurrectionists, but because they'll want to publicly resist what seems to be a slippery slope.

[Benggaul]

Just got home from work to see that Florida has, again, set a new record for new cases. 27,584. I'm sure their 8 reported deaths is really representative of reality.

But hey, it's okay! They've got those monoclonal antibody centers set up everywhere right? Oh, except not everyone is eligible for them and they're already maxed out anyway.

Fuck DeathSantis and Florida.

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Hey @Benggaul

A group of parents sued DeSantis over his mask ban ban and won.

Saw that, and am hoping it's used as ammo against mask mandate bans nation-wide. But I'm betting it'll still be bogged down in endless appeals. Meanwhile, hopefully enough schools flip off governors Abbott, DeathSantis et al and institute mask mandates regardless.

[Gorsameth]

Hey @Benggaul

A group of parents sued DeSantis over his mask ban ban and won.



Not just the Kings of Leon district. They can all do this.

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We'll see how far this goes. The House Murderous Insurrection Panel has asked social media platforms to turn over the records of the murderous insurrectionists.

I expect the tech giants not to comply, not because they're shielding murderous insurrectionists, but because they'll want to publicly resist what seems to be a slippery slope.

They might publicly resist but they will privately comply. Nothing scares tech giants more then the threat of government intervention in their business and "you shielded murderous insurrectionists so we need to regulate you more" is the last thing they want to hear.

[gondrin]

They might publicly resist but they will privately comply. Nothing scares tech giants more then the threat of government intervention in their business and "you shielded murderous insurrectionists so we need to regulate you more" is the last thing they want to hear.

Yep. Look at the video game industry and the ESRB or the music/movie industry with their rating system. All were because they were afraid the government was going to come in and regulate what kind of content there was.

[Gorsameth]

Uhhhh… the movie rating system replaced the old Hays code which would actually prevent “immoral” movies from being distributed. They switched to the MPAA system so that what morons thought immoral could be distributed while still letting parents know if their kid could see it. Really didn’t have shit to do with worrying about government censorship. Which would have been a pretty easy case to win based on the First Amendment.

The First Amendment does not protect you when you try to organise a murderous insurrection.

The big fear for social media platforms is being held responsible for the speech others put on their platform.
Look at the moves from twitter, facebook, ect in the wake of Trumps election to try and combat 'fake news' and foreign troll accounts. They don't care if people are lying to you on their platform, they love those folks because they are some of their best customers. But the danger is that the government steps in and makes them do it in much more restrictive ways then their own efforts.

[gondrin]

Uhhhh… the movie rating system replaced the old Hays code which would actually prevent “immoral” movies from being distributed. They switched to the MPAA system so that what morons thought immoral could be distributed while still letting parents know if their kid could see it. Really didn’t have shit to do with worrying about government censorship. Which would have been a pretty easy case to win based on the First Amendment.

And once again, the Hays code was something the movie industry came up with to prevent the government from coming in with their own regulations that would more then likely be more restrictive(like how old someone can be before being able to view something). Outside of some laws pertaining around pornography, everything else is a self-enforced set of standards.

The whole reason for any self enforced rating system(either in movies, music of video games) is so the government doesn't come in and do it. And yes, the government can regulate speech to a certain extent. They do it with television(cannot show certain materials on non premium channels, cannot show any form of nudity(outside of a topless male) at anytime between 6AM and 10PM due laws pertaining around obscene material). And yes, certain "obscene" materials don't pertain to the first amendment and can be restricted.

[Breccia]

The First Amendment does not protect you when you try to organise a murderous insurrection.

This is true. It also does not protect other crimes, like "stick 'em up, this is a robbery!"

My concern in this case, hopefully unwarranted HARDEE HAR HAR, is that the House will do something, erm, "less recommended" like send Google a Post-It note saying "we need your records". Facebook has no desire to just turn over everyone's records of everything Jan 5-7. And they do have every right, plus a profit-based reason, to say "no, that's not how this works".

The House needs to play this smart. Ask for specific people's communications, then follow the bread crumbs from there. If the Jan 6th panel handles this like a trial, rather than a circus, they might get what they want. If they make a big flashy public spectable, Apple doesn't need to attend.

[gondrin]

The hays code isn’t the movie ratings system and the reason the ratings system exists has nothing to do with fear of government intervention.

Well, this states different. Yes it is Wikipedia but it is there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion..._the_Hays_Code

Jack Valenti, who had become president of the Motion Picture Association of America in May 1966, deemed the Motion Picture Production Code – in place since 1930 and rigorously enforced since July 1, 1934 – as out of date and bearing "the odious smell of censorship". Filmmakers were pushing at the boundaries of the Code with some even going as far as filing lawsuits against the Hays Code by invoking the First Amendment, and Valenti cited examples such as Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, which contained the expressions "screw" and "hump the hostess"; and Blowup, which was denied Code approval due to nudity, resulting in the MPAA member studio releasing it through a subsidiary. He revised the Code to include the "SMA" (Suggested for Mature Audiences) advisory as a stopgap measure. To accommodate "the irresistible force of creators determined to make 'their films'", and to avoid "the possible intrusion of government into the movie arena", he developed a set of advisory ratings which could be applied after a film was completed.

[Benggaul]

Friday's report:

190,370 new cases; about 7.5k more than last Friday.

Top 10:

Fuck Florida (27.5k according to worldometers; new record)
Texas: 18,785 new cases; 294 deaths
California: 15,928 new cases; 115 deaths
Georgia: 11,084 new cases; 61 deaths
North Carolina: 8,105 new cases; 47 deaths
Tennessee: 7,635 new cases; 41 deaths
South Carolina: 6,830 new cases; 39 deaths
Illinois: 4,942 new cases; 19 deaths
Ohio: 4,855 new cases; 24 deaths

If it seemed before that Florida's cases were plateauing, today's numbers make that less likely. Until DeathSantis starts focusing more on prevention than "lookee here we got this expensive treatment!" cases will probably remain high--and regardless of those expensive treatments, high case counts means high death counts. Georgia posted their highest total since early this year. Not their highest overall, but it made their top 5 ever. Meanwhile cases are also exploding throughout the rest of the South. South Carolina in particular posted their second-highest total ever. Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee and South Carolina are all listed as "severe" risk. South Dakota is now up to 22.4% positivity. Washington, however, is currently at the top of that list with 27.5%--broken down to the county level you can guess which parts are driving that jump.

1,304 deaths is about 130 more than last Friday and brings the total to 653,405. Florida, Texas and California had the most, as usual. Texas is pushing 300, but hey, apparently they've been anticipating things being this bad for weeks now. Keep on "mastering" the pandemic, Texas.

Related news:

Eric Clapton sings 'enough is enough' on new COVID policy protest song 'This Has Gotta Stop'--Welp, fuck Eric Clapton then. I'm sure his superspreader tours through the South in September will go swimingly.

More COVID-19 shots, studies offer hope for US schools

The Biden administration said half of U.S. adolescents ages 12-17 had gotten at least their first COVID-19 vaccine, and the inoculation rate among teens is growing faster than any other age group.
...
A study of COVID-19 cases from the winter pandemic peak in Los Angeles County found that case rates among children and adolescents were about 3½ times lower than in the general community when schools followed federal guidance on mask wearing, physical distancing, testing and other virus measures, officials said.

Because I think we could all use a little glimmer of hope.

Stay safe, folks.

[Gorsameth]

This is true. It also does not protect other crimes, like "stick 'em up, this is a robbery!"

My concern in this case, hopefully unwarranted HARDEE HAR HAR, is that the House will do something, erm, "less recommended" like send Google a Post-It note saying "we need your records". Facebook has no desire to just turn over everyone's records of everything Jan 5-7. And they do have every right, plus a profit-based reason, to say "no, that's not how this works".

The House needs to play this smart. Ask for specific people's communications, then follow the bread crumbs from there. If the Jan 6th panel handles this like a trial, rather than a circus, they might get what they want. If they make a big flashy public spectable, Apple doesn't need to attend.

Its weird your afraid of the committee shooting randomly when the article you yourself linked goes into that.

The companies are being asked to turn over a large trove of information, including internal and external reviews of 2020 election misinformation or violent extremism, all content given to law enforcement related to those subjects and all relevant internal communications.

Its also weird that you feared they would not comply when it says

Spokespersons for Reddit and Facebook confirmed receipt of the letter and pledged to cooperate with the committee, as did Google, speaking on behalf of itself and YouTube.

[Breccia]

Its weird your afraid of the committee shooting randomly

I still am, yes. But I did miss that bit about cooperation -- that's really good news.

[Benggaul]

Florida Mother and Daughter, Both Unvaccinated School Workers, Die of COVID

If DeathSantis wants to keep ignoring basic safety measures like mask mandates for schools then we'll just keep reading these stories.

[Breccia]

Florida Mother and Daughter, Both Unvaccinated School Workers, Die of COVID

I mean, there's horror stories coming out every day. Like the unvaccinated wife who came home from the hospital to find her unvaccinated husband dead.

Anecdotes make data personal. The full story is the real weight.

While leaders in that state also refused lockdowns and mask orders, they made it a priority to vaccinate vulnerable older people. Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, opened mass vaccination sites and sent teams to retirement communities and nursing homes. Younger people also lined up for shots.

Mr. DeSantis and public health experts expected a rise in cases this summer as people gathered indoors in the air-conditioning. But what happened was much worse: Cases spiraled out of control, reaching peaks higher than Florida had seen before. Hospitalizations followed. So did deaths, which are considerably higher than the numbers currently reached anywhere else in the country.

The Florida story is a cautionary tale for dealing with the current incarnation of the coronavirus. The United States has used the vaccines as its primary pandemic weapon. But Florida shows that even a state that made a major push for vaccinations — Florida ranks 21st among states and Washington, D.C., in giving people of all ages at least one shot — can be crushed by the Delta variant, reaching frightening levels of hospitalizations and deaths.

“Clearly the vaccines are keeping most of these people out of the hospital, but we’re not building the herd immunity that people hoped,” Mr. DeSantis said at a news conference this past week. “You’ve got a huge percentage of people — adults — that have gotten shots, and yet you’ve still seen a wave.”

A quick interruption: when I read that, I immediately said, based on DeSantis and the voters he's talking to, "Gov. DeSantis is implying vaccines don't work". Is that putting words in his mouth? Yeah, probably. Was it unfair? No. Maybe if I had no idea who the speaker was, I'd read that first part and say "oh, he's saying herd immunity isn't enough or at least not yet and wants more people to help" but DeSantis has used up all his benefit of the doubt. I'm more than willing to publicly assume the worst of him, that he's intentionally killing his own voters, at this point, because so far the data backs me up.

Morgues and crematories are full or getting there. Public utilities in Orlando and Tampa have asked residents to cut back on water usage so liquid oxygen, which is used in water treatment, can be conserved for hospitals. As of Friday, Florida was recording an average of 242 virus deaths a day, nearly as many as California and Texas combined, though a few states still had a higher per capita rate, according to public health data tracked by The New York Times.

Florida’s pandemic data, more scant since the state ended its declared Covid-19 state of emergency in June, reveals only limited information about who is dying. Hospitals have said upward of 90 percent of their patients have been unvaccinated. Exactly why the state has been so hard-hit remains an elusive question. Other states with comparable vaccine coverage have a small fraction of Florida’s hospitalization rate.

The best explanation of what has happened is that Florida’s vaccination rates were good, but not good enough for its demographics. It has so many older people that even vaccinating a vast majority of them left more than 800,000 unprotected. Vaccination rates among younger people were uneven, so clusters of people remained at risk. Previous virus waves, which were milder than in some other states, conferred only some natural immunity.

And Florida is Florida: People have enjoyed many months of barhopping, party-going and traveling, all activities conducive to swift virus spread.

Unlike in places like Oregon, which is clamping down again, adopting even outdoor mask mandates, Mr. DeSantis continues to stay the course, hoping to power through despite the devastating human toll. A Quinnipiac University poll released this past week found that Mr. DeSantis’s approval rating was 47 percent.

He and other state officials have sought to steer away from measures that could curtail infections, banning strict mask mandates in public schools. The biggest school districts imposed them anyway, and on Friday, a state judge ruled that Florida could not prevent those mandates, a decision the Department of Education plans to appeal.

Florida has experienced more deaths than normal — from all causes, not just Covid-19 — throughout the pandemic. In the early weeks of 2021, with cases surging and the vaccine rollout kicking off, the state averaged 5,600 deaths each week, about a third more than typical for that time of year, according to mortality figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The deaths dropped and then went back up.

These excess deaths are important, both because a number of Covid-19 deaths occur outside hospitals, and because the virus may contribute to deaths from other causes as a result of the strain on the health system.

In the first week of August, the state recorded another 5,600 deaths. But because mortality rates normally drop during summer months, the figure was more than 50 percent above what’s typical.

Those who did not get vaccinated are only part of the explanation behind the surge. Many states slammed by the virus earlier developed deep reservoirs of natural immunity from prior infections, affording them higher levels of protection than would be evident from vaccination rates alone.

Not so in Florida. Compared to other states, Florida was spared as devastating a wintertime wave of cases as ravaged other parts of the country — in part because warm weather made it possible for people to gather outdoors. That was a boon to Florida’s economy and its political leaders but a liability come summertime, when the state was unable to rely on the same wall of natural immunity that is now helping to shield places walloped by the virus this winter.

The situation in nursing homes, where infections can spread swiftly, has also been problematic. While vaccination rates among older Floridians as a whole have been good, the rate of nursing home residents who are fully vaccinated — an average of 73.1 percent in each home — is lower than every state but Nevada, according to the C.D.C. About 47.5 percent of nursing home staff members were fully vaccinated as of Aug. 15, the lowest of any state but Louisiana.

Just going to point out there were a few Florida elected officials who pointed at NY and said "they are screwing up how they handle nursing homes". They can fuck right off, since they're objectively worse -- and watched NYState screw up, and decided to screw up even worse. You can find more info in this hilariously oudated spring article about how DeSantis opened up the state and it worked out perfectly and fine and perfectly and great.

There's more, of course, the NYTimes goes on and on. But I think you get the point.
1) DeSantis has assumed, falsely, that a middle-of-the-road vaccination percentage was enough to keep his state from becoming a global embarrassment.
2) Then with that assumption as a backdrop, intentionally fought against the common-sense protections that other states either leapt into or begrudgingly started.
3) The Delta variant found not only the elderly population of Florida, but its young partygoing visitors, particularly vulnerable. Neither got vaccinated enough, possibly due to DeSantis' handwaving, as I'm vindictively and biasedly throwing at him due to his words and actions.
4) "Herd immunity" means something different when the state constantly strives to circulate tourists. It's not that it can't happen, but the same rules just don't apply. They apply even less when you intentionally make your state appealling to unvaccinated people.
5) Now, Florida is in such bad shape they can't even hide the deaths anymore. And I don't just mean the numbers (because all deaths are up 30-50%) I mean there's no places to put the dead bodies. Hospitals aren't waiting for DeSantis to ask FEMA for help, they're just doing it directly.

Florida took a giant gamble, and doubled down on it. They lost.

Not even Florida believes DeSantis anymore. Deaths are solidly over 200/day again, which of course is a new record again. One patient in six is in Florida. And the best defense DeSantis has is this FOX News headline because of course it's FOX News saying "hey hey hey, it wasn't nine hundred deaths in one day! It was close to two or three!"

And the kids are in school now. Well, the ones that weren't quarantined because they went to school.

[Benggaul]

And the kids are in school now. Well, the ones that weren't quarantined because they went to school.

Yep. My nephew's one of them. Probably my niece too. She hadn't tested positive last I heard but they don't have a large house so it's nearly impossible to keep him separate from her at all times. All because some fuckhead Floridian parent sent their kid to school with no mask and a nosefull of COVID.

7 months out we're still mired in the TRUMP SHITSHOW.

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Add Alabama to the list of states running out of space for their dead due to COVID.


'There is no room to put these bodies,' Alabama health official says, as Covid-19 deaths climb

The state activated two of its four refrigerated trailers for the first time since the pandemic began, Harris said, in Mobile and Baldwin counties this week.

"These are typically held in case of a mass casualty event for example, when a large number of bodies appear at one time. This is actually a situation that is happening in Alabama hospitals now," Harris said.

"We have enough people dying ... that there is no room to put these bodies," he added. "We are really in a crisis situation. ... I don't know how much longer we're going to be able to do this."

Plenty of folks were criticizing New York for having nowhere to put their dead at the start of the pandemic when very little was known about the virus. Now there's very little excuse for there to be this many dead and dying.

[Breccia]

Now there's very little excuse for there to be this many dead and dying.

They'll be pleased to know Ida is currently forecast to miss the state entirely. Silver linings.

I will point out that, while Alabama has declared state of emergency, they've declared it along the coast for Ida. They have not declared it for the disease that's filled every single morgue spot they have and is hungry for more.

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Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!

This fall, Pfizer is going to be in a position — the company I'm on the board of, as you mentioned — be in a position to file data with the FDA at some point in September and then file the application potentially as early as October, so that'll put us on a time frame where the vaccine could be available at some point late fall, more likely early winter, depending on how long FDA takes to review the application.

It could take longer to get to an authorization, but the agency will be in a position to make an authorization, I believe, at some point late fall, probably early winter, and probably they're going to base their decision on what the circumstances around the country, what the urgency is, to get to a vaccine for kids.

That's Gottlieb, former Trump FDA head, now Pfizer board of directors member.

"Surely you're not going into more 'Trump is corrupt' again? Because if we carpeted the floor with those, we couldn't open the door."

Well, maybe a little bit, but not really. Gottlieb left office April 2019. This would be run-of-the-mill corruption, you know, where Trump said "none of MY cabinet will become lobbyists" and boom bam board of directors so yeah, promise broken. But April 2019 was so far ahead of Jan 22, 2020, that in this context I need his name for something else.

Trump said the vaccine was good. Team Trump is saying get the vaccine. The rabid fanbase is running out of reasons not to get the vaccine. At this point, the calls are coming from the current admin, the former admin, and the companies themselves. The only people continuing to claim the vaccine is secretly Jason from Friday the XIII are Gaetz, Alex Jones and probably Jessica Simpson. I would add Marc Bernier, aka "Mr. Anti Vax", but he died of COVID. No he wasn't "Dr. Anti Vax" just to get ahead of that one. He was 65.

I also can't add Caleb Wallace, leader of the San Angelo Freedom Defenders in Texas. You might remember him from a "stop the COVID tyranny" rally back in Octobrer. He checked into a hospital July 30 and is now released in the sense that he died of COVID. He was 30.

To those who wished him death, I’m sorry his views and opinions hurt you. I prayed he’d come out of this with a new perspective and more appreciation for life

-- his widow

"Okay fine, but Gottlieb didn't say anything about masks, did he, oh ho ho, oh ho ho ho?"

He did.

And then using masks and improving ventilation is also going to be very important and finally getting kids vaccinated. About 50 percent of kids who are eligible to be vaccinated have been vaccinated, so there's still a lot of work we can do there, getting parents more information, trying to encourage parents to vaccinate their children.

"But Gottlieb is no longer in a position of authority. His calls are entirely self-serving in the wallet department."

If the vaccine starts killing kids, then no it isn't. Also he doesn't make or sell masks...I think...or "school pods" which apparently he also talked about. They're like Tide pods, except when you consume one, one sick teacher doesn't wipe out half a graduating class.

Or, I guess in the hysterical screaming NO NO NO you could just say Trump hired a corrupt corporate shill who can't be trusted. I mean, you could say that. I'll accept that. I still win, but instead of listening to sound advice you'd continue to run around unmasked and possibly kill yourself, some old people, and maybe some children. Treat this disease seriously, as if it could kill you. I get tired of naming people who didn't.

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The EU is about to take the USA off the safe travel list.

Anyhow apparently the EU has a rule that says it's safe to visit for nonessential purposes if your cases/100k population is 75 or lower. The US is...um...a little higher. Like...300, according to the CDC whole country results. Even states that are doing well by comparison to the US as a whole, states like Illinois and Massachusetts, are over 100 cases/100k population. So while Fuck Florida is a continuing statement, at least this time, they're not the only problem.

Also apparently Denmark has said "we're all so vaccinated, anyone can come" or something to that effect.

[Xarkan]

Also apparently Denmark has said "we're all so vaccinated, anyone can come" or something to that effect.

We have sorta cancelled all [internal] restrictions (or well, we will have by september 10 i think it is)

It is a miracle, by just a stroke of a pen those coughing people in trains and restaurants are no longer contageous.

[Breccia]

We have sorta cancelled all [internal] restrictions (or well, we will have by september 10 i think it is)

Oh, sweet, a local. Overall, how do you think your country handled things?

[Xarkan]

Oh, sweet, a local. Overall, how do you think your country handled things?

Pretty well to be honest

There are a countries that have done better but over all, we kept cases lowish and within what hospitals could handle

I think we need to study what we did right and wrong and learn from i t

Also mink breeders may have a different perspective

We are, if i remember right, number 1 in tests per million citizens https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
443 dead per million citizens, 58 887 cases per million

[Breccia]

There are a countries that have done better but over all, we kept cases lowish and within what hospitals could handle

Well that's encouraging. Glad to hear it.

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So already President Biden has met with the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and basically said "whatever you need, call me"

And he said it with the head of FEMA in the room, so, no misunderstandings. The damage is apparently "catastrophic" so worse than we've heard, but supplies were already nearby and troops are on the way. Not sure what else he can do besides hand them a blank check.