Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Hollycakes]

Oh man.
Rudy's drunken speech last night was lol.
Riddled with inaccuracies and rambling statements about the Queen or mispronouncing Milley
Like he said he couldn't accept the O.B.E because he would have had to renounce US citizenship. Just lol
The very definition of train wreck.

Between that and Trump's performance of Boxing MC, this circus is still in full steam ahead mode.

Best part was when he got into the bit about the young girls and knowing Andrew.
It came from left field and only made him look guilty.

'I know Prince Andrew is very questionable now,'
'I never went out with him. Ever!
'Never had a drink with him, never was with a woman or young girl with him.
'Ever, ever, ever.'

Guys!
Ever, ever, ever!

[Dontrike]

Is Trump's popularity fading? Maybe, a Pillowmen Trump rally expected 10,000+ rally goers and they got *drum roll* less than 300.

Of course Trump recently said another stupid thing.

"When you rob Tiffany's of its diamonds, and you get caught, you're supposed to return them. The people are rising up. You going to let somebody that cheated stay for three more years? I can't imagine it," Trump said.

[Dontrike]

Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett expressed concerns Sunday that the public may increasingly see the court as a partisan institution.

Gee, Amy, I don't know. We're gonna need Scooby Doo to figure out this mystery.

[Breccia]

Known liar Donald Trump tells FOX News that Democrats are the reason that vaccine% is so low.

If you remember, when I was president, there were literally lines of people wanting to take it. Now, you have a different situation, and it’s very bad.

They disparaged the vaccine, and now they wonder why people aren’t wanting to take it? It’s a disgrace.

Well, this is my fault for never getting around to that red state vs. blue state vaccine%. Fortunately I have a backup plan. Vaccines were not readily available by Election Day. And the FDA granted emergency authorization December 2020, when Trump had already lost the election and was on his way out the door, limping and quacking "Fraud! Fraud!" as he went.

Trump, as per usual, is being intentionally disingenuous. He's basically comparing Black Friday sales to a random-ass September Tuesday. But that's only part of his lie. The rest, of course, is the partisan split Republicans have chosen for themselves, by refusing to take the vaccine. Man, I wish I had those numbers.

(45 seconds later)

I have those numbers.

• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
• Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
• Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
• Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
• Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent

And as per usual, I'm sure there will be some Republicans trying to say "But Democrats made it political!" Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that it's true: that Democrats went out of their way to politicize the vaccination issue. This means one of three things.
1) Democrats intentionally chose to side with a non-working vaccine, and Republicans chose not to take a non-working vaccine.
2) Democrats intentionally chose to side with a working vaccine, and Republicans chose to remain unvaccinated purely because Democrats made it political
3) Democrats intentionally chose to side with a vaccine before they even knew if it worked, while Republicans not only sided against the vaccine before they knew if it worked, but are continuing to side against the vaccine for partisan reasons even after we know it works.

I handwave #1. The results of the vaccine speak for themselves.

#3 seems possible, I guess, but it would of course destroy the argument. If we found out the vaccine works (it does) and Republicans, knowing that it works, still choose not to take it, that's not Democrats making it political. That's Republicans looking at life-saving medicine and saying "No, I draw sustenance from my political views, I refuse to cough hack wheeze *thump*" <flatline> and making themselves the problem.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, #3 doesn't fit Trump's statements. He claimed that Democrats were opposed to the vaccine, because Trump was for the vaccine, while Trump was in office. Again, this statement is factually false, but even if it wasn't, Trump has already dismissed it as an option, so a Trump supporter isn't allowed to choose that option.

But I believe the issue is #2, as Trump is a piece of #2. Republicans have always struggled with accepting science, often because they want oil money, but until recently only rarely was it "I don't believe medicine works". A lot of classic Republicans are old, and a lot of old people take a bunch of pills to, you know, not die. Republicans in this case have been desperately hunting for monorail treatment or hydroponics or inversefunction or injecting goddam bleach to avoid getting the shot. They're the ones opposing masks as well.

When there are two sides arguing over whether or not you should take life-saving medicine that has a proven track record of working, it's not an issue because there are two sides that can't agree. It's an issue because one side is suicidal.

But what do you think? @TexasRules I assume you'd like to weigh in. Please, explain how Trump's interview statements should be taken. Was he being honest and genuine? I'd love to hear your take on the topic, because so far, my take is "Republicans are literally dying just to troll the libs".

[Noxx79]

Gee, Amy, I don't know. We're gonna need Scooby Doo to figure out this mystery.

I like how the article specifically mentions that the students asked her about two recent clearly political decisions and her response was to dodge the question.

[Dontrike]

I like how the article specifically mentions that the students asked her about two recent clearly political decisions and her response was to dodge the question.

Not surprising in the least. If the Republicans were in the Matrix the agents wouldn't be able to hit them.

[Breccia]

So I've mentioned the latest book before written by Grisham, no not that one the former aide to Melania. Well, there's a particularly damning section.

During the Jan 6th murderous insurrection, Grisham asked Melania if she wanted to make a statement -- with a very leading question.

Do you want to tweet that peaceful protests are the right of every American, but there is no place for lawlessness and violence?

Melania's response was

No

Melania instead had a photo shoot of a rug she'd picked out. Yes, she was picking out furnishings for the White House after losing the election. Grisham has been clear that Melania echoes Trump's statements that the election was rigged.

"Well if Grisham felt that strongly, why didn't she resign in protest?"

She did within hours. Melania would later make a statement, but it was Jan 11th.

Naturally, Team Trump has already commented along the lines of "anyone who says mean things about Trump is lying" which at this point is actually considered confirmation of the story. Grisham does appear to be playing the same "I was the only sane person in the White House" angle that other book authors have played. I'd feel more empathy towards her, if she hadn't stuck with Trump from 2015 till Jan 6th before deciding murderous insurrection was the line she wouldn't cross. I mean, I'm glad a thief who doesn't murder isn't a murderer, but they're still a thief.

[Redwyrm]

If they really wanted to motivate people to get the vaccine, they should have tied the last stimulus check to getting fully vaccinated.

Not vaccinated, you don't get stimulus.

[Breccia]

If they really wanted to motivate people to get the vaccine, they should have tied the last stimulus check to getting fully vaccinated.

I've also heard people suggesting that child tax credit thing only going to vaccinated parents.

[Redwyrm]

I've also heard people suggesting that child tax credit thing only going to vaccinated parents.

At the very least, people who refuse to get vaccinated (not those that can't for medical reasons) should be last on the list for hospital care. If you don't trust the medical community when they advise vaccination, then you shouldn't trust to get medical care when you get sick from something you could have easily prevented.

[Breccia]

Trump going head to head with W has been amazing.

So interesting to watch former President Bush, who is responsible for getting us into the quicksand of the Middle East (and then not winning!), as he lectures us that terrorists on the ‘right’ are a bigger problem than those from foreign countries that hate America, and that are pouring into our Country right now.

If that is so, why was he willing to spend trillions of dollars and be responsible for the death of perhaps millions of people? He shouldn’t be lecturing us about anything,

I have no reason to defend W, and in fact I'm not. W was the one who decided to stay in Afghanistan after all. But Trump doesn't get out of a disingenuous argument just because he's attacking W.

W was talking about the level of domestic terror now. Say what you want about W's handling of Afghanistan and Iraq, there was no murderous insurrection on W's watch. In W's tenure I'm sure there were more Klan rallies than we needed (aka "more than zero") but we didn't have literal torch-carrying Nazis running over people in the street.

Oh, and *ahem* W was re-elected.

- - - Updated - - -

At the very least, people who refuse to get vaccinated (not those that can't for medical reasons) should be last on the list for hospital care.

I legit think doctors aren't allowed to do this.

[Ivanstone]

W was talking about the level of domestic terror now. Say what you want about W's handling of Afghanistan and Iraq, there was no murderous insurrection on W's watch. In W's tenure I'm sure there were more Klan rallies than we needed (aka "more than zero") but we didn't have literal torch-carrying Nazis running over people in the street.

Dubya got elected in the first place due in part to a bunch of right wing goons trying to tamper with the 2000 election so he really shouldn’t be throwing stones.

He also got the perfect scapegoat to give social conservatives something to be angry at outside the US. Right wing terrorism incidents started increasing after 2005 after the economy started to falter and people were figuring out the Iraq war was horseshit.

[cubby]

Trump going head to head with W has been amazing.



I have no reason to defend W, and in fact I'm not. W was the one who decided to stay in Afghanistan after all. But Trump doesn't get out of a disingenuous argument just because he's attacking W.

W was talking about the level of domestic terror now. Say what you want about W's handling of Afghanistan and Iraq, there was no murderous insurrection on W's watch. In W's tenure I'm sure there were more Klan rallies than we needed (aka "more than zero") but we didn't have literal torch-carrying Nazis running over people in the street.

Oh, and *ahem* W was re-elected.

W will probably be the last sane GQP President we'll see. With Tom Cotton in the wings and Trump in his fifth year of playing president, the odds of a rational candidate winning out in the charnel-house of fuckwits the GQP pushes to the top are slim and none, and slim is out of town attending the Capital Insurrection Post-Rally.

I legit think doctors aren't allowed to do this.

They are not.

[Edge-]

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/proje...out-of-165000/

"Intelligence outfit" Project Veritas got had. Someone's in their emails, and spoofed an email from their lawyers as part of a chain about PV paying their lawyers $165K.

Credit to the fraudsters for being fast since this appears to have happened in real time as PV and their lawyers were in discussion over email. But not a great look when you get a sudden email from your lawyers changing the account to deposit the funds into without doing a cursory double check of the sender to ensure that it is actually your lawyers.

I see they continue to set the bar for private intelligence outfits. It's low, but they're sure setting it.

[postman1782]

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/proje...out-of-165000/

"Intelligence outfit" Project Veritas got had. Someone's in their emails, and spoofed an email from their lawyers as part of a chain about PV paying their lawyers $165K.

Credit to the fraudsters for being fast since this appears to have happened in real time as PV and their lawyers were in discussion over email. But not a great look when you get a sudden email from your lawyers changing the account to deposit the funds into without doing a cursory double check of the sender to ensure that it is actually your lawyers.

I see they continue to set the bar for private intelligence outfits. It's low, but they're sure setting it.

Considering how much damage Project Veritas has done to our democracy, I call this a down payment.

[Biglog]

A quick note on Mike Lindell. He started working for Trump long before the 2020 election. During 2019/2020 he used his own private jet to ferry Diamond and Silk (remember them?) from Trump rally to Trump rally aggressively campaigning for Trump. After Trump lost, Lindell started his sketch-level comedy routine of pushing nonsense election fraud conspiracy ideas with his Charlie Kelly whiteboard. But that wasn't new, Lindell has been a platinum club member in the Trumpism grift for a long time.

[Omega10]

Not a fan of Bush, but this article sure makes Bush out to be heroic with his recent speech.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hz1?li=BBorjTa

Title: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hz1?li=BBorjTa

"In the weeks and months following the 9/11 attacks, I was proud to lead an amazing, resilient, united people. When it comes to the unity of America, those days seem distant from our own. A malign force seems at work in our common life that turns every disagreement into an argument, and every argument into a clash of cultures. So much of our politics has become a naked appeal to anger, fear and resentment. That leaves us worried about our nation and our future together."

This almost makes unity to be a bad thing since this unity got us into our Middle East wars. On the other hand, that much unity is one heck of a lot better than the pile of hatred we are currently experiencing. And "malign" really is a good adjective for those pushing this narrative. After all, the anti-mask anti-vaccine movement is now self-sustaining, but the core of it started small and was carefully nurtured.

I hope the following really is an accurate transcript, and was spoken with the way it sounds.

"On America's day of trial and grief, I saw millions of people instinctively grab for a neighbor's hand and rally to the cause of one another. That is the America I know.

"At a time when religious bigotry might have flowed freely, I saw Americans reject prejudice and embrace people of Muslim faith. That is the nation I know.

"At a time when nativism could have stirred hatred and violence against people perceived as outsiders, I saw Americans reaffirm their welcome to immigrants and refugees. That is the nation I know.

"At a time when some viewed the rising generation as individualistic and decadent, I saw young people embrace an ethic of service and rise to selfless action. That is the nation I know.

"This is not mere nostalgia; it is the truest version of ourselves. It is what we have been -- and what we can be again."

I don't remember it quite like that - what I remember is angry people talking about using US nukes to turn the entire Middle East to glass. I spent the original 9/11 trying talk to people down from this at least a little. The only argument that penetrated even a bit was one about the nuclear fallout making Israel uninhabitable.

But the vision that he speaks about is a good vision. And it IS something to work towards and to fight for. It's good that a prominent person was up to the task of making these visions heard.

[Redwyrm]

I legit think doctors aren't allowed to do this.

I didn't say doctors should deny treatment. But in crisis situations they can prioritize the neediest and most critical cases (triage) before others. I don't think anti-vaxxers who get sick are critical cases.

[gondrin]

Not a fan of Bush, but this article sure makes Bush out to be heroic with his recent speech.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hz1?li=BBorjTa

Title: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...hz1?li=BBorjTa



This almost makes unity to be a bad thing since this unity got us into our Middle East wars. On the other hand, that much unity is one heck of a lot better than the pile of hatred we are currently experiencing. And "malign" really is a good adjective for those pushing this narrative. After all, the anti-mask anti-vaccine movement is now self-sustaining, but the core of it started small and was carefully nurtured.

I hope the following really is an accurate transcript, and was spoken with the way it sounds.



I don't remember it quite like that - what I remember is angry people talking about using US nukes to turn the entire Middle East to glass. I spent the original 9/11 trying talk to people down from this at least a little. The only argument that penetrated even a bit was one about the nuclear fallout making Israel uninhabitable.

But the vision that he speaks about is a good vision. And it IS something to work towards and to fight for. It's good that a prominent person was up to the task of making these visions heard.

You know, I had the exact same conversation at the time with a fellow coworker. And much like yourself, the only thing that got through was when I pointed out that if you nuke the ME, that radiation spread pretty much everywhere. Had to tell him that he would be irradiated himself(if a big enough bomb is used). Worked too. He never brought it up again.

- - - Updated - - -

I legit think doctors aren't allowed to do this.

While doctors can't do that, hospitals can keep delaying care if it isn't critical if they are waiting in the emergency room until said people leave. They just cannot state the reason why other then no beds are available at this time.

However, no matter the reason, I wouldn't want a hospital or doctor to pick and choose who they can take care of in an emergency setting or delay their care outside of a triage scenerio. It sets a bad precedent.

[swiftowner]

However, no matter the reason, I wouldn't want a hospital or doctor to pick and choose who they can take care of in an emergency setting or delay their care outside of a triage scenerio. It sets a bad precedent.

I think even in a triage scenario, they still aren’t going to decide based on who is or is not vaccinated. They will still base it on who is more likely to survive with medical treatment, if you are stable you go home, if you are probably going to die soon, you’re sol