Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Oh, good catch.

The letter the lawyer submitted was useless. It was basically "I quit" and a middle finger.

The article says the resignation follows an agreement between both sides in the case. It could be unrelated. But it's possible Eric Trump agreed to something his lawyer begged him not to -- such as agreeing not to contest a piece of evidence. But of course, we don't know what that was.

There are lots of reasons a lawyer could drop their client.

"Not being paid" seems like a bad one here, if the Trump family doesn't pay their fraud lawyers they got to jail. I suppose the Trump family could have said "we're only going to pay you if you win" in which case (a) that lawyer is a fucking moron for believing that (b) the sudden departure after an agreement is really bad news for both of them.

"I disagree with what you did" won't fly either, he's been representing since Aug 2020. He knew what he signed up for.

We know a lawyer can have real problems if (a) they're also a target, and (b) they suddenly represent two clients who are at odds with each other. I don't see the first as an option. This lawyer didn't work for the Trumps pre-2016 near as I can tell. The latter is possible. He has ties with Giuliani and Gaetz, so he clearly has no problem working within the Trump circle. Problem is, unless he works for Trump himself, I can't imagine who he'd ditch Eric Trump for. They're the big fish. I suppose Eric Trump could have ratted out other Trump employees and this lawyer could represent one, but why ditch Trump to protect them? And I give a 0% chance Eric Trump turned on his father.

"I disagree with that legal decision you just made" is my current guess. Eric Trump didn't listen to legal advice, and his lawyer quit in protest.

I suppose @cubby will be needed here, but I can't think of a realistic option more likely than "Eric Trump is an idiot". Again, it's possible he's not being paid, but why was today the day that suddenly mattered?

Attorneys only quit high profile well-paying cases for three reasons. Not getting paid, doesn't believe in the client/cause, client is a dumbass and won't listen. With any of the Trumps, all three are solid choices, and they aren't limited to just one. We'll have to see how his new counsel handles the idiocy.

I might need @cubby on this one, but I seem to remember that there are rules about saying things about public figures vs. people nobody knows. Talk show hosts aren't jailed or sued for making jokes about celebrities. If I'm wrong, my bad. But if I'm right, it looks like Trump is claiming that same protection...that of not being a public figure.

This is merely a case of the attorney filing whatever the client asks, because while Trump is a "private" citizen he remains a public figure - those two are not mutually exclusive (for example, Tom Cruise is absolutely a private citizen, but at the same time a public figure). The issue is whether the person "puts themselves into a situation or situations in which public scrutiny becomes apparent.

So his attorney is almost literally filing a frivolous case, or doesn't understand even the basics of the law in this situation - or both.

[Azadina]

I think it's because he's running it as a Political Action Committee (PAC) or Super PAC instead of a campaign, and PACs don't have nearly as many limitations on what you can spend the money on as campaigns do.
*edit, yeah he's creating a superPac (possibly done already since this is from Feb:

SuperPacs are really loosey goosey with their money:

So it makes sense for him to put off officially declaring himself as long as he can.

Thanks for the educational bit

Seems kind of corrupt to all hell though. Maybe similar stuff exist in other countries, not that I can say I ever paid too much attention to political fundraisings to notice.

[cubby]

Hey look! House Minority Leader McCarthy (and how appropriate is that name for these times?) is still a lying piece of shit.

"It's one more example of one-party control, trying to control your information, trying to intimidate you, from fining to proxy voting, to who can be on committee," McCarthy told CNN on Wednesday. "All the actions that are taking place have never been done before in Congress."

[Breccia]

Florida got a new surgeon general yesterday.

First thing he did was make quarantine optional for students exposed to COVID because masking was optional.

"Oh, so they don't have to quarantine the 14 days the CDC recommended?"

Well, it was four days. But no, now they can just decide to make it zero days.

Yep, the "but I just don't want to" continues. That child-approved shot can't get here fast enough. Then...they won't take it.

[cubby]

I think it's because he's running it as a Political Action Committee (PAC) or Super PAC instead of a campaign, and PACs don't have nearly as many limitations on what you can spend the money on as campaigns do.
*edit, yeah he's creating a superPac (possibly done already since this is from Feb:

SuperPacs are really loosey goosey with their money:

So it makes sense for him to put off officially declaring himself as long as he can.

I would agree. And those PAC's can pay for almost anything, including legal fees, and future legal expenses. You can almost guarantee that Trump has these going to use as a piggy bank.

[Breccia]

I would agree. And those PAC's can pay for almost anything, including legal fees, and future legal expenses.

This really asks the question "so why did Erick Trump's lawyer quit?" Because Trump's PAC is ripe for the skimming. He would have been paid.

[cubby]

Florida got a new surgeon general yesterday.

First thing he did was make quarantine optional for students exposed to COVID because masking was optional.

"Oh, so they don't have to quarantine the 14 days the CDC recommended?"

Well, it was four days. But no, now they can just decide to make it zero days.

Yep, the "but I just don't want to" continues. That child-approved shot can't get here fast enough. Then...they won't take it.

Exactly. And none of those asshats will be held criminally responsible for their actions killing children.

In my state, where the Vaccine has been well received, but businesses are all essentially open with masks/optional, we had 1200 cases today. TODAY. Sources are also reporting that the ER is so overwhelmed that people are dying on the sidewalk (no necessarily of COVID).

My visceral response to this is that any non-vaxxed ER/ICU case can just sit on the street outside and die. Because fuck them.
(but not the kids, obviously - this is just any adult who has chosen not to get the vaccine)

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This really asks the question "so why did Erick Trump's lawyer quit?" Because Trump's PAC is ripe for the skimming. He would have been paid.

If we ever have the political guts to get to the bottom of the Trumps full criminal actions, we will still be surprised. I highly doubt we'll ever know - the political environment just doesn't have the stomach nor the intellectual honesty to dig that deep.

[PhaelixWW]

The 7-day average is starting to dip a little, though who knows how accurate that is with Florida's shenanigans still ongoing.

So... looking into this a bit more, the 7-day average is unfortunately not starting to dip. As we know, there are multiple states who are pulling the same thing that Florida is doing, leading to backlog reports being attributed to past dates. That causes the same effect seen in the Florida death curve, only at a smaller level. This is not at all news to you, I'm sure, hence your skepticism.

Here's a graph of the 7-day average for deaths as reported on the actual day, as well as a graph of the 7-day average of deaths by when they were first reported. There are some oscillations caused by the Labor Day lack of reporting, but both 7-day averages have been steadily rising this whole time.




Also, it looks like we're not alone in our worry about the incipient winter rise.

CNN: 'We are not out of the woods yet.' Expert expects US Covid-19 cases to climb in the coming weeks

[Thepersona]

Exactly. And none of those asshats will be held criminally responsible for their actions killing children.

In my state, where the Vaccine has been well received, but businesses are all essentially open with masks/optional, we had 1200 cases today. TODAY. Sources are also reporting that the ER is so overwhelmed that people are dying on the sidewalk (no necessarily of COVID).

My visceral response to this is that any non-vaxxed ER/ICU case can just sit on the street outside and die. Because fuck them.
(but not the kids, obviously - this is just any adult who has chosen not to get the vaccine)

.

Fortunately, not all of the people who had delayed their doses are anti vaxxing nutjobs. Here at my job one of my colleages delayed her shot because she had Guillain Barre Syndrome when she was a child (she finally was vaxxed with a single dose vaccine). Now, those people are the tiny, TINY minority of fellas who have delayed or outright dont want to be inoculated.

But yeah. When ICU/ERs are full, people WILL die on the sidewalk. If not from covid, they can die from a heart attack, or from hepathic cirrhosis (yeah, that's what happened here). Basically, whenever ICU are at capacity, pray that you dont get an obligatory visit to said place, as you may die waiting.

[Breccia]

It's not just COVID. Trump's death count extends to another statistic: murder.

FBi data shows that 2019 to 2020 had an increase in murder by 29 percent. Yes, that's a record. It's double the previous record.

Firearm murders were also the highest percent they've ever been, and since the increse was both high and roughly equal across all population centers (large cities, small cities, rural areas) there will be no "it's Chicago's fault" today.

"It seems unfair to blame Trump for all those murders."

No, it doesn't.

1) If Trump blamed Chicago for gun violence, violence allowed because there's no federal rules on handguns and because Chicago doesn't have the authority to stop and search everyone coming into Chicago for violations of Chicago gun laws broken by those entering, then it's 100% fair to use that same logic when the entire country has a plague of (gun) violence and murder -- even if it's false. If Trump wants to play by those rules, the rules don't suddenly change when he starts losing.

2) It's pretty reasonable to put the COVID issue as less correllation and more causation. The added stress of mass unemployment waves, people having no health care during a lethal outbreak, and in 2020 especially the scarcity of certain goods and services? It would be unreasonable to assume it wasn't a factor.

3) But the big one: Trump ran on a platform of reinforced concrete and steel because he's so fat, but a political platform of divisiveness, hostility, and hatred. He advocated violence. He called an entire country rapists. He threatened nuclear war via Tweet. He tried to block an entire religion. He instructed the Executive Branch to downplay or ignore domestic terror. He defended literal torch-carrying Nazis. And he organized the murderous insurrection. And his audience cheered every bone spur step of the way.

If the country is led by a hateful, violent person, and the country sees a dramatic increase in hateful, violent acts, it is completely fair to say the two are related.

- - - Updated - - -

Nikki Haley attacks Biden for not telling the UN to not recognize the Taliban.

"Wait, didn't she work for Trump?"

Yes.

"Didn't Trump negotiate with the Taliban, over and instead of the Afghani government?"

Yes.

"Did Haley also denounce Trump for doing this?"

As recently as August she was asked to do exactly that, and refused. So yes, this is 100% hypocrisy.

[Benggaul]

Wednesday's report:

133,620 new cases; around 34k fewer than last week.

Top 10:

Fuck Florida.
Texas: 13,889 new cases; 371 deaths
California: 7,904 new cases; 142 deaths
Ohio: 6,882 new cases; deaths not reported
North Carolina: 6,288 new cases; 130 deaths
New York: 5,011 new cases; 40 deaths
Tennessee: 4,773 new cases; 96 deaths
Georgia: 4,723 new cases; 182 deaths
Kentucky: 4,408 new cases; 52 deaths
Pennsylvania: 4,394 new cases; 64 deaths

Texas and Florida both posted 10k+ numbers again, though they appear to be on the downslope of their peaks, at least. Of course, with DeathSantis' new rule that not only do kids not have to wear masks but they also don't have to quarantine after exposure we'll see how long that lasts. Fuck DeathSantis and Florida. Cases continue to rise now in the Great Lakes region with Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin's 7-day averages climbing, so the precipitous drop in cases nationally will probably start butting up against the increase there in short order. I'm sure Florida's fuckery will come into play again in a few weeks.

2,228 deaths is about 200 fewer than last week and brings the total to 699,748.

So... looking into this a bit more, the 7-day average is unfortunately not starting to dip. As we know, there are multiple states who are pulling the same thing that Florida is doing, leading to backlog reports being attributed to past dates. That causes the same effect seen in the Florida death curve, only at a smaller level. This is not at all news to you, I'm sure, hence your skepticism.

To be fair to me, I also wasn't expecting a 200-death jump from Alabama and another near-400 day from Texas this week, but yes, I got fooled by the dips. I still think we'll be on the other side of it by the end of the week, though. Hopefully. Puhlease.

Related news:

Number of COVID-19 hospitalizations drops below 1,000 in LA for first time in months--California in general has been doing very well during this most recent wave in stark contrast to their past Winter. I guess it helps to have a governor who isn't a complete fucking moron pandering to Trumpers.

Scott Gottlieb: Delta Covid Wave Could Be the ‘Last Major Surge’ of the Pandemic--There are a number of health experts making this claim, but I don't have their faith (and other health experts also urge caution). I'm still fairly sure we'll see another fucking awful wave during the Fall/Winter, but boy would I love to be wrong.

Few COVID-19 vaccinated patients need intensive care--This is just reinforcing what we already knew, but it's nice to see the data continue to back it up as time goes on.

Stay safe, folks.

[Fugus]

I came across a few places with this but evidently Steve Bannon has confirmed he had a part in planning the January 6th events with Trump.

He wanted to "Kill the Biden Presidency in the crib"
https://www.newsweek.com/steve-banno...odcast-1631667

[Breccia]

This is just reinforcing what we already knew, but it's nice to see the data continue to back it up as time goes on.

Speaking of things we already know, clumsy segue, Idaho.

I mentioned them recently, in the respect that intentionally unvaccinated Idahoans are flooding Washington hospitals. Would you like to know more?

"Not really, it sounds depressing."

Well if more people took their life-saving medicine we wouldn't be here. Time to name and shame the people destroying the country and blaming others.

What Happens When A State Fails To Flatten The COVID Curve

A lot of this article is a personal story, but here's the less specific parts.

Idaho currently has the lowest vaccination rate in the country, and the number of vaccine doses administered hasn’t been climbing significantly — but infections have. As of Saturday, there were 686 patients hospitalized in the state with COVID, 180 of them in ICUs. That’s hundreds more than what flooded hospitals during the previous surge in December 2020, before safe and effective vaccines were widely available.

As the Delta variant of the coronavirus tears through Idaho and the rest of the US, Souza said he and his St. Luke’s colleagues have noticed several important differences from the December 2020 surge. Patients are younger (averaging 58 years old, down from 72), they are sicker and require more mechanical ventilation, they are staying in the ICU longer, and they are dying more frequently (the ICU mortality rate has jumped from 28% to 43%). Some 80 people have died from COVID in St. Luke’s hospitals in just the past three weeks.

Currently, 50 of the 51 COVID patients in ICUs part of the St. Luke's Health System — a chain covering southeastern Idaho, eastern Oregon, and northern Nevada — are unvaccinated. Hospitalizations have soared. In July, there were 33 patients with COVID across all the St. Luke's hospitals. This week, there were 289. Currently, more than two-thirds of all patients in St. Luke’s facilities are being treated for the same virus, Jim Souza, St. Luke’s chief physician executive, told reporters in an online briefing on Tuesday.

“That’s an unprecedented event in modern medicine,” he said.

Now here is where it gets...interesting. You know the debate we've had off and on about who gets kicked out of the hospital when too many people show up? Um...yeah, it's not just us.

Idaho is what a state looks like when it fails to flatten the curve. As in other Mountain States, beds are running out. In response to the crush of patients, which is not expected to slow anytime soon, the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare (DHW) last week activated crisis standards of care. When implemented by hospitals, these plans, first formulated in April 2020 with the hope they would rarely need to be used, help guide overwhelmed medical workers on how to ration scarce resources.

The crisis standards apply to all patients — not just those with COVID-19. “There are already many patients who’ve had to delay surgery or other treatments, and if you end up in a hospital, you may receive treatment in a waiting room or a hallway,” said DHW Director Dave Jeppesen. “Each nurse and doctor will be taking care of more patients than usual. You may have to wait much longer than normal for care. You may even have to be transferred to a care facility that could be hours away.”

Having a good day so far? Feeling cheerful and optimistic?

Stop.

If things truly reach their worst in Idaho, the crisis standards guide doctors in triaging which patients receive care and which won’t. They involve a complex calculation of health factors in order to save the most lives possible. In the event of a tie, doctors may have to resort to a lottery system. Hospitals may even institute a universal do-not-resuscitate order for all patients who suffer cardiac arrest — although this has not yet happened in Idaho and would never apply to children.

Yep, Idaho had planned out a system to allow people to die, or to flip a coin to see if they allowed them to die, April 2020. And they're knocking on the door of needing it. I checked the NYTimes, Idaho might legit have peaked so hopefully a well-meaning health care professional will never have to find out which of their patients rolled a natural one.

So how did it get this far? "I just don't want to".

Medical groups in Idaho have pleaded with residents to get vaccinated but have been met with resistance among many in the deeply conservative state — a symptom of the politicization of the vaccines by some on the right. Idaho’s Republican governor, Brad Little, received a COVID vaccination he dubbed “safe and effective” in January, but months later he signed — like other conservative governors across the country — an executive order banning state officials from requiring residents to get vaccinated in order to access facilities. Citing the need for “fewer government regulations,” this month Little also stated he would challenge plans from President Joe Biden to require US companies with more than 100 employees to mandate either a vaccine or routine testing for staff/

They would literally rather die. Not figuratively. Literally.

[Thepersona]

Related news:

Number of COVID-19 hospitalizations drops below 1,000 in LA for first time in months--California in general has been doing very well during this most recent wave in stark contrast to their past Winter. I guess it helps to have a governor who isn't a complete fucking moron pandering to Trumpers.

Scott Gottlieb: Delta Covid Wave Could Be the ‘Last Major Surge’ of the Pandemic--There are a number of health experts making this claim, but I don't have their faith (and other health experts also urge caution). I'm still fairly sure we'll see another fucking awful wave during the Fall/Winter, but boy would I love to be wrong.

Few COVID-19 vaccinated patients need intensive care--This is just reinforcing what we already knew, but it's nice to see the data continue to back it up as time goes on.

Stay safe, folks.

From what i've gathered, the possibility of delta being one of the last strains that cause major surges is partially explained because the virus has not much room left to mutate into a more contagious form (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02275-2). Now, i could've very wrong about this, but the gist of it is that threre're trade offs and with the enormous evolutionary pressure that covid has (via vaccine programs) it has to "work" fast.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57431420

[Benggaul]

Forgot to add this to my post:

Mother of four who proudly proclaimed her anti-vax status dies of COVID

Every fucking time.

Since her death, Lowery’s Facebook account — which features a profile picture of her with the caption “unmasked, unmuzzled, unvaccinated, unafraid...Together we win” ― has gone private.

I'm sure that'll look great on her tombstone. My condolences to the children; her I have no sympathy for.

- - - Updated - - -

From what i've gathered, the possibility of delta being one of the last strains that cause major surges is partially explained because the virus has not much room left to mutate into a more contagious form (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02275-2). Now, i could've very wrong about this.

That's one of the points raised, but as other health experts have said there's still a huge portion of unvaccinated among the US population, let alone the world. It's a bit foolhardy to say we'll be fine from here out when that's the case:

Turn the page on Covid-19? Not so fast, say experts

Less than two percent of the world's poorest populations have received even a first dose of vaccine, noted Flahault, director of the University of Geneva's Institute of Global Health.

"In certain places -- eastern and central Europe, Africa, Asia, Israel, Canada, El Salvador, Belize -- cases are increasing exponentially, so we can't say the pandemic is behind us," he said.

Even in rich, well-vaccinated countries showing a downward trend, things could reverse, experts caution.

As the northern hemisphere approaches winter, people will once again gravitate toward large, indoor gatherings that boost circulation of the virus.

"We have to be careful of the situation in Europe and North America as we enter the middle of autumn," says Sofonea.

"What we know about this pandemic is that it is unpredictable," added Flahault.

"No one foresaw the appearance of the Delta variant in India last spring, even though we feared that kind of thing might happen."

And while it's unlikely we'll see a more dangerous variant than Delta at this time, it's not impossible. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm pretty fed up with seeing us throw up our hands in victory before the finish line and trip over our own feet.

[Breccia]

"unafraid"

This is the one it keeps coming back to. And it's fucking stupid.

"I refuse to live my life in fear!"
"Do you have a gun?"
"Of course I do!"
"For what reason?"
"Why to protect myself from crime and tyranny!"
"That sounds like fear. Hey, do you stop for red lights?"
"Of course I do!"
"Why?"
"Well someone might be coming the other way and I might get in an accident. Or I could get a ticket."
"That sounds like fear. Do you cook poultry, or eat it raw?"
"OH COME ON! You're intentionally misrepresenting obvious causes of injury or death and widely-known common-sense easily-done methods to avoid them!"
"Yep. I am indeed. The walk-in health centers are that way."

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Actually I'm not done with that analogy.

So far in 2021, there have been over one hundred accidental fatal shootings by children. That's really restrictive, that's not just "all gun deaths" or "all accidental gun deaths" but those done by children.

Anyone worried about untested vaccines, that is their new benchmark. Find proof that the vaccines killed 100 people. I don't think they will, but until they do, "a kid finds your gun and kills you with it" is a more likely cause of death than "vaccine kills me".

[cubby]

Fortunately, not all of the people who had delayed their doses are anti vaxxing nutjobs. Here at my job one of my colleages delayed her shot because she had Guillain Barre Syndrome when she was a child (she finally was vaxxed with a single dose vaccine). Now, those people are the tiny, TINY minority of fellas who have delayed or outright dont want to be inoculated.

But yeah. When ICU/ERs are full, people WILL die on the sidewalk. If not from covid, they can die from a heart attack, or from hepathic cirrhosis (yeah, that's what happened here). Basically, whenever ICU are at capacity, pray that you dont get an obligatory visit to said place, as you may die waiting.

Of course there are valid exceptions for medical issues, just like you mention above - and thank you for pointing that out, I was remiss in not doing so myself.

[Lanrefni]

Of course there are valid exceptions for medical issues, just like you mention above - and thank you for pointing that out, I was remiss in not doing so myself.

My neighbor is violently allergic to at least one of the vaccines ingredients,what really sucks is so are both of his kids,both still under 6.

[alexw]

They would literally rather die. Not figuratively. Literally.

Go check out this site on reddit and read some of the stories of the people put up there. These anitvaxxers are completely out of their minds. There's no saving them at this point.

[Fugus]

Find proof that the vaccines killed 100 people.

From the last time I read it, the total global death count from the vaccines was at 7 individuals. 6 from blood clots and 1 from heart swelling.

So the rate of death is REALLY low.