1. #74401
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ys/7934063002/

    Judge asks Trump attorneys in Michigan, including Lin Wood who apparently didn't know his name was even on the lawsuit (kek), if they like...checked any of the claims of massive fraud before bringing them to the court. You know, because as a lawyer you need to do some due diligence on behalf of your client before bringing their claims of fact in front of the court. You can't just make shit up while asking the court to disenfranchise millions of voters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    You can't make stuff like this up.
    I have practiced law for 43 years and have never witnessed a proceeding like this. I take full responsibility for the pleadings in this case.

    We had a legal obligation to the country and to the electors to raise these issues. It is the duty of lawyers in the highest tradition of the practice of law to raise unpopular issues.
    -- Powell

    I don't think I've really ever seen an affidavit that has made so many leaps. This is really fantastical. So my question to counsel here is how could any of you as officers of the court present this type of an affidavit?
    -- the judge, right back at Powell

    Simply put, there is "raise unpopular opinion" and "submit bullshit backless claims under oath". I can say "Trump is morbidly obese and weighs six hundred pounds" all I want...here. I say that under oath, I'm in trouble. So why the hell would I submit a court claim saying "Trump weighs 600 pounds" if I couldn't back that up?

    The judge took issue with the team that used public court filings to baselessly claim that there was something wrong with the election, such as a guy who said he saw two post office guys with plastic bags that could have had illegal ballots, no really, that's what was submittted, a guy who says he saw plastic bags. That shit was filed as "evidence". The judge is being asked to force Powell and her Krak team to
    (a) pay for taxpayer court costs
    (b) lose their licences, henceforth to be known as "pulling a Giuliani"
    and from the back-and-forth, the judge is leaning further in that direction than away from it.

    I will also point out that Lin Wood's name came up. I don't know why, He's been cited but has publicly denied being part of the case. I remember Wood, I think he's a proven doucehbag, but if he was cited without his permission then we get something even better: Team Trump turning on itself in broad fucking daylight.

    @cubby your thoughts? Laughing so hard you choke on Greymane-brand popcorn doesn't count.
    The gravity of the literal lies these people not only filed suits upon but swore affidavits to is staggering. They questioned the entirely unproven and unverified root of our democracy, KNOWING that the truth was in fact the opposite, and then ignited an entire industry of lies and deceit just to make some more money and keep their grifting ass-hat of a traitor in the limelight a few more desperate seconds.

    What are my thoughts?

    They all ought to be taken out back behind Four Seasons Total Landscaping, shot in the head, and buried in unmarked graves. Treason has a penalty, and they declared war on our democracy.

    (and to be clear to those fuckwad trump followers still skulking around these forums looking to bait click others into perma-bans: no, I'm not calling for violence, I'm hoping people are punished for their obvious crimes)

  2. #74402
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The gravity of the literal lies these people not only filed suits upon but swore affidavits to is staggering.
    If there are no sanctions, I'm going to need to know why. Or, failing that, I have every right, and standing precedent, to challenge my whore Party of Trump Rep's election when she inevitably wins. I mean, at that point why not?

  3. #74403
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Yeah the "Americans are too litigious" point is largely a myth pushed by conservatives pundits trying to lobby for tort reform in their favor. Aka corporations, like McDonalds in the coffee spill situation, who want to avoid having to pay when it actually is their fault. While these people aren't doing anything to help it it's far more of a media narrative than an actual truth.
    "Too litigious" is subjective, but Americans are more litigious that many other countries mainly because of the way the systems are set up rather than any real desire on the part of individuals (presumably). Like the case of the aunt suing the niece because it was the only way to get the insurance company to pay out. In my country her medical needs would be covered by a state run accident compensation system, so suing at all would be completely unnecessary in that situation.

  4. #74404
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    If there are no sanctions, I'm going to need to know why. Or, failing that, I have every right, and standing precedent, to challenge my whore Party of Trump Rep's election when she inevitably wins. I mean, at that point why not?
    To the very core of what you are saying, exactly. If these people can file suits questioning our democracy, knowing they are lying when they file them, and not face consequences - what's the point any more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trifle View Post
    "Too litigious" is subjective, but Americans are more litigious that many other countries mainly because of the way the systems are set up rather than any real desire on the part of individuals (presumably). Like the case of the aunt suing the niece because it was the only way to get the insurance company to pay out. In my country her medical needs would be covered by a state run accident compensation system, so suing at all would be completely unnecessary in that situation.
    There are three entire categories of political-social-historical reasons why the United States is more litigious than most other nations. Chiefly among them, and bringing two posts to one, is that we never adopted the English system of the third option of jury rulings - that being the plaintiff pays the defendants court costs because the suit was so egregiously ridiculous.

  5. #74405
    Well, I am not shocked at this, but Lin Wood decided to go against the judge's orders and post a small video snippet from the court proceedings when the judge "Absolutely prohibited" all recordings.

    Immediately After ‘Kraken’ Sanctions Hearing, Lin Wood Posted a Video Snippet of Zoom Court. The Judge ‘Absolutely Prohibited’ Any Recordings.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp

  6. #74406
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Well, I am not shocked at this, but Lin Wood decided to go against the judge's orders and post a small video snippet from the court proceedings when the judge "Absolutely prohibited" all recordings.



    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp
    Well, gonna get disbarred anyways, might as well be held in contempt as well right?

  7. #74407
    I am Murloc! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Well, gonna get disbarred anyways, might as well be held in contempt as well right?
    On National Kool-Aid Day, I mean, August 13th, Trump as president will super duper pardon him and rebar him!
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok

  8. #74408
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    On National Kool-Aid Day, I mean, August 13th, Trump as president will super duper pardon him and rebar him!
    Will Trump appear as the Kool Aid Man to break him out of prison? I mean, he is fat enough.

  9. #74409
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Well, gonna get disbarred anyways, might as well be held in contempt as well right?
    …except contempt charges usually land your ass in jail, no?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #74410
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Well, gonna get disbarred anyways, might as well be held in contempt as well right?
    That would be excellent. Contempt charges can encompass jail time as well as prison time (being held vs being sentenced). I sure as hell hope that judge throws everything they can at those attorneys.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    …except contempt charges usually land your ass in jail, no?
    Indeed.

  11. #74411
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    …except contempt charges usually land your ass in jail, no?
    Yup. But they can't help themselves but double down on the stupid.

  12. #74412
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    Well, I am not shocked at this, but Lin Wood decided to go against the judge's orders and post a small video snippet from the court proceedings when the judge "Absolutely prohibited" all recordings.



    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp
    Maybe he didn’t catch that as he constantly was trying to speak over the judge…

  13. #74413
    https://www.insider.com/us-border-pa...ckpoint-2021-7

    The drug smugglers are inside the house! We've all heard about the trials CBP has had with recruiting competent people, especially given that they market themselves like ultra-hard special forces where agents will be going on daring raids, tearing through the desert in armored vehicles, and waging a constant war against coyotes and druglords to keep our borders safe...when in reality most of the job is hanging around empty borders, driving around empty landscape, being a first-responder to asylum seekers who are in need of medical assistance, and doing a lot of paperwork.

    One of them decided to spice things up a bit and make some scratch on the side by working with the cartels, helping two shipments of cocaine get passed the border safely. And all this for a measly $1K per run, which seems like a pretty stupid amount of money to be risking *checks article* a $10M maximum fine and up to 10 years in prison.

    Sure, this isn't Trump specific, but given his love of CBP and his championing of them I feel it fits.

  14. #74414
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.insider.com/us-border-pa...ckpoint-2021-7

    The drug smugglers are inside the house! We've all heard about the trials CBP has had with recruiting competent people, especially given that they market themselves like ultra-hard special forces where agents will be going on daring raids, tearing through the desert in armored vehicles, and waging a constant war against coyotes and druglords to keep our borders safe...when in reality most of the job is hanging around empty borders, driving around empty landscape, being a first-responder to asylum seekers who are in need of medical assistance, and doing a lot of paperwork.

    One of them decided to spice things up a bit and make some scratch on the side by working with the cartels, helping two shipments of cocaine get passed the border safely. And all this for a measly $1K per run, which seems like a pretty stupid amount of money to be risking *checks article* a $10M maximum fine and up to 10 years in prison.

    Sure, this isn't Trump specific, but given his love of CBP and his championing of them I feel it fits.
    I'm almost more insulted by the low price they sold themselves out for over that of their dereliction of duty.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #74415
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    So yet another book documents yet more incompetence, williful ignorance and outright fraud in Trump's White House.

    This latest book was written by WaPo journalists, and therefore isn't another thinly-veiled "I was the only sane person left trying to control Trump" blame aversion. One section that stands out is the election, in which Giuliani was roaming the WH telling people "just say we won" on election night. When, you know, the votes hadn't been counted yet.

    Apparently even major Trump cultists like Miller, Stepein and especially Meadows took offense to this strategy. However, we all know Trump didn't and declared victory immediately -- and hasn't backed down since.

    Also:

    What the fuck is FOX doing?
    -- Trump, with regard to Arizona

  16. #74416
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Yeah, no, it's not entirely nonsense. The per capita litigation rate in the US is higher than most other Western nations (or at least had been at the time of my studying the matter--which admittedly was nearly 20 years ago). Now, we can argue about whether or not threats to sue are included in that and we can argue about whether or not the reputation is deserved, but you can bet you'll hear "I'll sue!" more often in the US than out. None of that, however, really detracts from my initial point: "lawyers" as a profession in the US didn't have a sterling reputation to begin with.
    Then your information is off, because we really weren't significantly higher in any meaningful way than western counterparts and in the last 10 we saw downward trends on those numbers. We also get into some wonkyness about how each country tracks the numbers, is it by filing or actually going to court etc, and the American judicial system is actually more prominent/more important player in our system of government. Most data I've been able to find only puts us at number 5 although I'm having some difficulty finding who made the numbers. Been a while since I looked myself.

    My gf also works in premises liability, aka if you slip in fall in a store and sue she deals with it, and used to do workers comp. So I'm fairly familiar with the litigiousness of the average American . But by in large you're pushing what was effectively a media narrative made up by McDonalds and other corps to push Tort reform to limit how much they had to pay when they did fuck up. It's basis in reality was about as much as the Super Predator black people in the 90's coming to get us in our homes.

    And it detracts plenty because the "lawyers" not having a sterling rep isn't based in fact and you used another non-fact to support that also not particularly fact based perception. It's the same "common sense" that people used to show that because the Virus is X microns big and a mask can only block particles that are Y microns masks don't work not realizing the droplets that carry the virus are blocked by a mask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trifle View Post
    "Too litigious" is subjective, but Americans are more litigious that many other countries mainly because of the way the systems are set up rather than any real desire on the part of individuals (presumably). Like the case of the aunt suing the niece because it was the only way to get the insurance company to pay out. In my country her medical needs would be covered by a state run accident compensation system, so suing at all would be completely unnecessary in that situation.
    Right, and that goes into what I said above. Are Americans really more sue happy or is it the more likely answer that our courts simply play a more front and center role in government and personal disputes? And even considering that we're still not the worst.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2021-07-13 at 02:35 PM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
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    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  17. #74417
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/polit...ion/index.html

    A former Chicago bank executive was found guilty Tuesday of charges alleging he conspired with onetime Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort to exchange risky bank loans for a high-ranking position in the presidential administration.

    Stephen Calk, the former chairman and CEO of The Federal Savings Bank, was found guilty of one count of financial institution bribery and one count of conspiracy to commit financial institution bribery. The charges carry 30 and 5-year maximum prison sentences, respectively.

    Calk was ultimately never offered nor accepted any positions within the administration and the bank incurred a multimillion-dollar loss when Manafort defaulted on the loans.
    The most criminal administration? Probably, yeah.

    Sounds like an idiot though, did he really think he could buy a position by paying off Manafort with a loan that Manafort would of course default on? I guess he fits with the merry band of idiots.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...steal-election

    “Where would he be without me? I saved his life,” Trump said in an interview with Woolf. “He wouldn't even be in a law firm. Who would have had him? Nobody. Totally disgraced. Only I saved him.” The ex-president raged on: “I can’t even believe what’s happening. I’m very disappointed in Kavanaugh... In retrospect, he just hasn’t had the courage you need to be a great justice. I’m basing this on more than just the election.”
    Trump, a loser, complaining that Kavanaugh, a guy on the Heritage Foundation/Federalist Society lists, that he nominated to the SCOTUS, isn't doing what he wants him to do.

    Not the "Only I could do X" and the belief that Kavanaugh, who was still quite successful prior to his SCOTUS nomination, would be "nowhere" without Trump. Because all roads begin and end at Trump in his view.

    Still deeply amusing to see Trump, a loser, spend the past 10 months complaining and crying and whinging and moaning. Hillary didn't even complain for this long, she sucked it up and moved on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...e-qanon-499242

    This past weekend, two promoters of QAnon conspiracy theories were given press credentials to Donald Trump’s MAGA rally in Sarasota, Fla.

    The men took selfies with their badges, taunted journalists covering the event as “fake news,” showed off their wristbands printed with the movement’s slogan — “#WWG1WGA” — and generally reveled in the access they’d scored.

    Not everyone was happy to see them there.

    Trump’s press team said the two men, Jeffrey Pedersen and his podcast co-host Shannon Shadygroove:, were not welcome, and had registered for the rally with “Red State Talk Radio,” a network that has sent people who, a Trump aide said, “appear to be legitimate” to events before.

    Pederson and Grooove were later identified as QAnon followers by Alex Kaplan of progressive watchdog group Media Matters, after which Trump’s team said they are considering a new policy to verify reporters ahead of events to prevent people like the two men from gaining access. On top of that, they said they will continue efforts to tamp down on the proliferation of swag that promotes the conspiracy at Trump events and rallies.

    Rally organizers make a valiant effort to dispel Q merchandise such as t-shirts, flags, and signs at the rallies,” said a Trump spokesperson.

    Scott Adams from Red State Talk Radio said their network allows “show hosts to use our name, image, and likeness to acquire press credentials upon request.”

    “Content of our individual shows and hosts is not necessarily an endorsement of our station. We support and endorse content in line with America First policies,” said Adams.

    Trump and his aides have made efforts to keep QAnon from becoming a prominent feature of Trump events for years. There had been a longstanding (though not always successfully executed) policy at Trump rallies to remove any signs or slogans relating to non-Trump causes, and QAnon merchandising fell into that blanket policy. But as the web of QAnon falsehoods and supporters continues to grow, Trump allies have increasingly viewed the movement, which holds that a satanic sect of pedophiles is secretly controlling the government, as toxic.

    If we let in one Q shirt out of hundreds of shirts,” the negative press would be astounding, said one person close to Trump.A picture that's on the cover of New York Times, with a hundred [QAnon] t-shirts behind him, would be worse” than him talking about QAnon.
    While Trump is still smiling and winking at Q nutters, it sure sounds like his people are a bit less enthused with the group. Yes, I'm enjoying this.

  18. #74418
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    *snip*
    Mmhmm. Again, not entirely true, but I'm not willing to continue the derailment further. So agree to disagree it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Monday's report:

    14,715 new cases; about 3k more than 2 weeks ago (and with 6 states not reporting).

    Top 5:

    Fuck Florida.
    California: 2,853 new cases; 21 deaths
    Texas: 1,229 new cases; 11 deaths
    Mississippi: 796 new cases; 2 deaths
    New York: 723 new cases; 4 deaths

    Unsurprising to see California creeping back up there given the population density of LA (and the general density of the people in Orange County). Their positivity has gone up, but it's still only about 2.1%. Compare that to Nevada (13.6%), Missouri (12.1%) and Arkansas (10.2%) and that's not terrible at all...yet. With Delta it can balloon exponentially very quickly even though California's vaccination rate is also decent (63% with at least one shot). Florida is at around 7.6%--that we know of--and Texas is around 6.1%, so I wouldn't trust their reported totals all that much. It's not surprising to see Mississippi in the top 5 today given their vaccination rate a little south of 40%.

    129 deaths is a bit under 50 fewer than two weeks ago and brings the total to 623,029. Deaths have on the whole continued to drop off in the past few weeks but if cases continue to rise we'll probably see deaths begin to go back up as well--but probably not from those who have been vaccinated as studies show that even if you get COVID (including Delta) after getting vaccinated your symptoms will be much less severe and less likely to require hospitalization.

    Related news:

    In Arkansas, Covid-19 cases surge as state combats vaccine skepticism--No comment.

    Tennessee fires top vaccine official as COVID-19 shows signs of new spread--"And the South shall dieeeee again!"

    Fiscus said she was a scapegoat who was terminated to appease state lawmakers angry about the department's efforts to vaccinate teenagers against coronavirus. The agency has been dialing back efforts to vaccinate teenagers since June.

    "It was my job to provide evidence-based education and vaccine access so that Tennesseans could protect themselves against COVID-19," Fiscus said in a written statement. "I have now been terminated for doing exactly that."
    Stay safe, folks.

  19. #74419
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ke/7948904002/

    Not that she matters terribly, but Kraken lawyer Jenna Ellis has left the Republican party.

    Why? Because they didn't sufficiently back Trump's election fraud claims strongly enough, and the top party lawyer thinks they're a bunch of idiot clowns (they are).

    Man, I'm looking forward to the possible circular shooting squad on this one.

  20. #74420
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ke/7948904002/

    Not that she matters terribly, but Kraken lawyer Jenna Ellis has left the Republican party.

    Why? Because they didn't sufficiently back Trump's election fraud claims strongly enough, and the top party lawyer thinks they're a bunch of idiot clowns (they are).

    Man, I'm looking forward to the possible circular shooting squad on this one.
    Fingers crossed for a party split.

    Which may actually materialise depending on how 2022 goes.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

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