1. #74421
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Fingers crossed for a party split.

    Which may actually materialise depending on how 2022 goes.
    Ellis is already blocked on Twitter by RNC head Romney-McDaniels, but I don't think she's the type to strike out and form her own party. Nor do I think Trump is, given that it's more his style to continue pushing the Republican party further to the conspiracy theorist, dictator-loving extreme right. Why build something from the ground up when you can just use your existing install base?

    See: The fact that Trump hasn't even joined "his" social media network, likely out of fear that it'll be yet another failure that further solidifies him as a complete and total loser.

  2. #74422
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Fingers crossed for a party split.

    Which may actually materialise depending on how 2022 goes.
    I'd be thrilled if it happened before then since it would gut the GQP before the midterms.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  3. #74423
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ellis is already blocked on Twitter by RNC head Romney-McDaniels, but I don't think she's the type to strike out and form her own party. Nor do I think Trump is, given that it's more his style to continue pushing the Republican party further to the conspiracy theorist, dictator-loving extreme right. Why build something from the ground up when you can just use your existing install base?

    See: The fact that Trump hasn't even joined "his" social media network, likely out of fear that it'll be yet another failure that further solidifies him as a complete and total loser.
    I've kind of taken it for granted that Trumpism will outlive Trump at this point.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  4. #74424
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I've kind of taken it for granted that Trumpism will outlive Trump at this point.
    Of course it will, primarily because it was around before he was. He just gave it a lodestone/brand to flock to.

  5. #74425
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I've kind of taken it for granted that Trumpism will outlive Trump at this point.
    It absolutely will. Q will not end with Trump's death (it'll probably get worse), there's a whole cottage industry around him (seems to have replaced the anti-Hillary cottage industry), and he's successfully grabbing the reigns of the Republican party (see the polling with him and DeSantis, where DeSantis performs extremely well...unless you put him up against Trump, and the polling of literally any other non-Trump fanboi being in the gutter) and will steer it well beyond his death.

    Weird how Republicans love idolizing former presidents (Reagan being a good example) over all else while there doesn't really seem to be that same kind of fanboi devotion within the Democratic party. I mean, Obama is popular as fuck and all, but it doesn't protect him from pretty extensive criticism of his administration nor do we have the hilariously cringey memes of his face on Rambo and shit. Republicans love them a good cult with a bigly strong leader, apparently. Even if that leader is, as 2020 showed, a fuckin loser.

  6. #74426
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Of course it will, primarily because it was around before he was. He just gave it a lodestone/brand to flock to.
    I'm not sure whether to be happy or disappointed that it ended up being Trumpism rather than Palinism.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  7. #74427
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I'm not sure whether to be happy or disappointed that it ended up being Trumpism rather than Palinism.
    Please, Palin was never going to be the figurehead of the party. She's viewed more as eye-candy than anything else, which is why she's done nothing of note politically since her failed VP run. She doesn't have the anger and hate required to lead the party, even if she has the stupidity needed in spades.

  8. #74428
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Please, Palin was never going to be the figurehead of the party. She's viewed more as eye-candy than anything else, which is why she's done nothing of note politically since her failed VP run. She doesn't have the anger and hate required to lead the party, even if she has the stupidity needed in spades.
    I doubt she would have ended up as a figurehead, but I really do think McCain's decision back in 2008 ultimately opened the door for Trump being as successful as he ultimately became.

    It legitimized the brand of crazy that the GOP used to keep firmly under the thumb of its more Romney-esque members. I'm not saying they weren't bigots then, but they weren't like "let's overthrow the US government on Jan 6" levels.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  9. #74429
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Please, Palin was never going to be the figurehead of the party. She's viewed more as eye-candy than anything else, which is why she's done nothing of note politically since her failed VP run. She doesn't have the anger and hate required to lead the party, even if she has the stupidity needed in spades.
    Plus, she's a she. I'm not going to claim the Democrats are perfect, but women have a better shot at being meaningful leaders there than with the GOP/Q.

  10. #74430
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Fingers crossed for a party split.

    Which may actually materialise depending on how 2022 goes.
    I predicted a split would happen between 2012-2016. I was wrong, obviously, but we do seem to be heading further in that direction now than we were then.

  11. #74431
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I predicted a split would happen between 2012-2016. I was wrong, obviously, but we do seem to be heading further in that direction now than we were then.
    You might have been correct if Trump had lost the 2016 primary, tbh.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  12. #74432
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You might have been correct if Trump had lost the 2016 primary, tbh.
    The one flaw in my prediction was expecting the more moderate Republicans not to go all-in on the far right crazy train. I clearly failed to take into account their collective lack of even a single solid backbone between them.

  13. #74433
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    The one flaw in my prediction was expecting the more moderate Republicans not to go all-in on the far right crazy train. I clearly failed to take into account their collective lack of even a single solid backbone between them.
    Iirc, the going all in happened after the primary. The failure was on the GOP for managing to consolidate behind a viable alternative and instead splitting the field between shitsquillion boobs.

    Contrast this to 2020 and how the moderate Dems lined up behind Biden when it became clear folks like Buttigieg and Klobuchar weren't viable despite having a split field at the start.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  14. #74434
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Weird how Republicans love idolizing former presidents (Reagan being a good example) over all else while there doesn't really seem to be that same kind of fanboi devotion within the Democratic party. I mean, Obama is popular as fuck and all, but it doesn't protect him from pretty extensive criticism of his administration nor do we have the hilariously cringey memes of his face on Rambo and shit. Republicans love them a good cult with a bigly strong leader, apparently. Even if that leader is, as 2020 showed, a fuckin loser.
    Probably because Dems are more inclined to using -logic- and -facts-, and haven't been indoctrinated into religious cults that suppress any form of free thought from a young age. Let's not pretend decades of pastors drilling into conservative heads that they should obey dogmatically has nothing to do with their tendencies to turn to demagoguery.

  15. #74435
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Probably because Dems are more inclined to using -logic- and -facts-
    I really don't think it's anything that deep, but rather a function of Republicans having exactly one to two news sources that they get all of their information from. Those being Fox and Facebook.

    Democrats as a whole typically get their news from more varied sources.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  16. #74436
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Iirc, the going all in happened after the primary. The failure was on the GOP for managing to consolidate behind a viable alternative and instead splitting the field between shitsquillion boobs.

    Contrast this to 2020 and how the moderate Dems lined up behind Biden when it became clear folks like Buttigieg and Klobuchar weren't viable despite having a split field at the start.
    The difference, though, is that Buttigieg and Klobuchar were still fairly solid Democrats. There was never any reason to expect that the party wouldn't have coalesced around them if things had turned out differently. Donald Trump, on the other hand, spent the entire primary insulting, and being insulted by, the other Republicans. They repeatedly stressed that he was unfit for the office, that he lacked the temperament or the experience, that his were not the values of either America or the Republican Party, and that they wanted nothing to do with him. Many of them explicitly said that they could not and would not ever support him. Lindsay Graham called him "a race-baiting xenophobic bigot" and said that if they made him their candidate, he would destroy the party and they would deserve it.

    And the moment he got the nomination they all fell in line with barely even a backward glance.

  17. #74437
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I really don't think it's anything that deep, but rather a function of Republicans having exactly one to two news sources that they get all of their information from. Those being Fox and Facebook.

    Democrats as a whole typically get their news from more varied sources.
    Let's not pretend that there aren't plenty of Dems that get their info through Facebook as well. I'm friends with a lot of them.

    The discernable difference is their ability to think critically about what they read, and being able to assess its validity at face value.

  18. #74438

  19. #74439
    Man, in light of all this Republican outrage over TX Democrats leaving the state to deny passage of the voting restriction bill I'm pretty surprised that there aren't more regular reminders from Democrats that Oregon Republicans have repeatedly used this tactic before.

    Also, deeply amused to see Ted Cruz talking about how Texans don't "run" given that the little bitch fled to Cancun during a cold front and used his teenage daughters as an excuse. The guy really doesn't have any shame or self awareness, no wonder he was Taint-licking for Trump on the phone after Trump called his wife an ugly dog and said his father was involved in the JFK assassination.

  20. #74440
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I doubt she would have ended up as a figurehead, but I really do think McCain's decision back in 2008 ultimately opened the door for Trump being as successful as he ultimately became.

    It legitimized the brand of crazy that the GOP used to keep firmly under the thumb of its more Romney-esque members. I'm not saying they weren't bigots then, but they weren't like "let's overthrow the US government on Jan 6" levels.
    Palin doesn't have the Charisma of Trump, and no I don't see him as charismatic but obviously a bunch of Trumpers do and there is no deny his speeches apparently work for the audience.

    But I wouldn't put opening the door on Trump on Palin. I put it squarely on Obama.
    A black man getting elected to President lit a fuse under a certain set of Americans, there was no denying that they were losing the culture war after that. It wasn't a token black guy(or girl) somewhere to be 'tolerate'. It was the highest office and most powerful person in America/the world.

    The Tea Party takeover, Qnon, Trumpism it all comes from that singular event. Racist Americans had to face the fact that they lost the war to keep America white.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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