Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Machismo]

lol, i'm just gonna stop responding to you when you include countries that are manipulating the data...

But, this is literally your argument. I mean, Sweden is in the bottom quartile for death rates. They didn't do that well.

[PhaelixWW]

lol fucking bullshit... japan has like ten times the population density of usa...

Japan is also an island and the people of Japan tend to follow the safety directives of their government far more than most. They also have a history of mask use.

[Breccia]

lol, i'm just gonna stop responding to you when you include countries that are manipulating the data...

Take that up with the Scandanavian Journal of Public Health. I'll let you read the whole thing on your own, but cite these relevant parts here, which basically say "you are wrong'.

Role of government regulations as an early response measure

Using variation in policies and publicly announced cases and mortality data across regions in the United States, Goolsbee and Syverson attributed a large portion of decline in mobility to voluntary stay-at-home decisions based on people’s fear of COVID-19 deaths in their region, with legal restrictions accounting for only ~12% of the mobility decrease. Consistent with this, Andersen et al. found similar reductions in consumer spending in Sweden and Denmark (25% c.f. 29%) despite substantially greater government restraints on economic activity in Denmark. Focusing only on Stockholm county, mobility data indicate a population response to increasing case and mortality counts preceding increasing government restrictions. However, the national analysis we present provides counterevidence as well: Norway, Denmark, and Finland enacted strict and early government regulations prior to observing high case counts or COVID-19 associated deaths and, ultimately, maintained all-cause mortality rates below or equal to the average for the last 5 years. Despite increasing cases and connectivity to global news, mobility data show that the population-based response in Sweden overall was not as strong as its neighbours and did not intensify to their level as the situation worsened. Given that the median time from first symptoms of COVID-19 to death is 14 days, government restrictions can be implemented as a form of early response measure to encourage a stronger shift in population behaviour before a rise in cases and deaths occurs.

Conclusions

Over the first 6 months of the current pandemic, Sweden experienced higher COVID-19 case rates, death rates, and higher all-cause mortality (especially in the Stockholm county epicenter) than its Nordic peer countries. COVID-19 pushed Sweden’s health system to its capacity, exposed systemic vulnerabilities in the seniors’ care system, and revealed challenges with limited testing implementation. Choosing fewer and less intense government restrictions at the beginning of the outbreak likely played a role in the impact of COVID-19 in Sweden, although a connection to international news and rising fear of cases and deaths may have driven Swedish citizens to voluntarily shift to stay-at-home behaviour and reduce their spending. In spite of initial challenges, Sweden was able to adapt with more restrictive mandates, increasing their ICU bed capacity, and shifting their testing strategy. Sweden may provide an example of how an adaptive test-and-learn strategy can be applied to public health decisions made in uncertain times.

And before you voice even a single objection, bear in mind you're not trying to debate me. You're trying to debate this journal. And you won't win.

[Breccia]

i'm wrong that

What part of "you're not trying to debate me" do you not understand? Handwaving a research article like this just makes you look like a disingenuous poster. You're not a disingenuous poster, are you?

[Breccia]

north korea

North Korea isn't in Scandanavia. Please post constructively.

[Breccia]

machismo

This sounds like you refusing to back your own claims about (a) Sweden (b) governmental restrictions, which I directly cited research about and you handwaved citing nothing. This makes you look like a disingenuous poster. You're not a disingenuous poster, are you?

[Machismo]

machismo is the one who brought it up... good bye...

I simply pointed out that your argument was crappy. There's literally 160 countries with better numbers than Sweeded,

Goodbye...

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yeah, i'm sure north korea has 0 cases of covid and they're not manipulating data... lol... just stop embarrassing yourself if you want me to take you seriously...

I can list the other 145 countries with lower numbers than Sweden, if you like.

[Breccia]

There's literally 160 countries with better numbers than Sweeded.

Especially when you compare its direct neighbors, as that research article I posted did. It even posted out the people stopped waiting for their government to act and took it upon themselves, directly refuting the unbacked, uncited statement.

Perhaps they'll come back with a stronger nonargument than "lol North Korea goodbye" which I now nominate as a Godwin's Corollary.

[Machismo]

Especially when you compare its direct neighbors, as that research article I posted did. It even posted out the people stopped waiting for their government to act and took it upon themselves, directly refuting the unbacked, uncited statement.

Perhaps they'll come back with a stronger nonargument than "lol North Korea goodbye" which I now nominate as a Godwin's Corollary.

Yes, when taking into account their neighbors, access to medical facilities, population density... Sweden really didn't fare too well.

As for the other poster, that's pretty much all she does, do her best to deflect for terrible people.

[jonnysensible]

this thread isnt about swedish people being secretly evil or american people being objectively awful. even though both of these are true. Its about donald.

Speaking of which anyone see the Qanon people gathering at a grassy knoll for JFK jr to show up. Where is sacha baron cohen when u need him?

[Breccia]

Speaking of which anyone see the Qanon people gathering at a grassy knoll

Apparently it's "noel" now.

[Machismo]

this thread isnt about swedish people being secretly evil or american people being objectively awful. even though both of these are true. Its about donald.

Speaking of which anyone see the Qanon people gathering at a grassy knoll for JFK jr to show up. Where is sacha baron cohen when u need him?

I've kinda lost track of all the batshit crazy things the Qanon Trumpsters are pushing these days.

[beanman12345]

So the day after the NYC primaries, all the criminal charges came out against Trump Org, and Weissleberg. The grand jury hasn't slowed down in that time. I'm fully expecting a whole slew of new indictments coming out from the DA tomorrow since today is their general election.

[Lenonis]

don't try to blame politicians for something that's on the people...

More disingenuous bullshit. Either you are ignorant about US politics in which case you should stop talking about it or you are intentionally ignoring the reality of Trump's impact on COVID which is immoral.

Neither is a good look.

[Breccia]

So the day after the NYC primaries, all the criminal charges came out against Trump Org, and Weissleberg.

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't read that correctly.

I would not expect something tomorrow, but only because I know these things take time, not for anything specific.

[beanman12345]

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't read that correctly.

I would not expect something tomorrow, but only because I know these things take time, not for anything specific.

Yes, they've had nearly 1/2 a year since the last round of indictments. I expect things tomorrow, specifically because I know they've had plenty of time, and with everything ending, Cy Vance career, Grand Jury, time's up pal.

[Orange Joe]

in regards to personal responsibility? yes, they are a lot better at that than swedes... americans on the other hand? a lot worse than both... likely due to the "mah freeeeeeeeeeeeedumbs" mantra rather than taking some responsibility for what they do...

How is this not racism but what the other dude posted yesterday was? .......

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What part of "you're not trying to debate me" do you not understand? Handwaving a research article like this just makes you look like a disingenuous poster. You're not a disingenuous poster, are you?

She was calling a person racist while defending a known racist on the board. You tell me....

[Machismo]

trump is the symptom... not the disease...

Nah, he's a fucking disease, too.

Sorry your narrative got torn to shit.

[Lenonis]

trump is the symptom... not the disease...

Funny - to hear you talk Trump isn't anything. Stop defending him.

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Nah, he's a fucking disease, too.

Sorry your narrative got torn to shit.

It's an interesting approach to try to claim that politicians don't matter when the response to a pandemic has been split entirely by political orientation. Certainly personal responsibility isn't irrelevant here but to try to defend and excuse Trump when it comes to covid of all things is just...mind boggling. Just how out of touch or soulless do you have to be?

[Machismo]

Funny - to hear you talk Trump isn't anything. Stop defending him.

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It's an interesting approach to try to claim that politicians don't matter when the response to a pandemic has been split entirely by political orientation. Certainly personal responsibility isn't irrelevant here but to try to defend and excuse Trump when it comes to covid of all things is just...mind boggling. Just how out of touch or soulless do you have to be?

Well, people will try and defend all sorts of reprehensible things.