Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

I can almost hear the sounds of the guffaws, high-fives, and chortled "I can't believe he bought that!" coming from a backroom at the publisher's office.

You had me until the end. Then you forgot the publisher is Don Jr. and 45books.com or something like that. You forgot "they got Trump to pay them first".

[PhaelixWW]

You had me until the end. Then you forgot the publisher is Don Jr. and 45books.com or something like that. You forgot "they got Trump to pay them first".

Gee, thanks. Now I'm just hearing embarrassed silence from the backroom.

[Breccia]

He’s claiming it’s the printer that can’t get the materials I think?

Don Jr. is not crippled by his ego like his father. He's crippled by fear of losing his father's money. The publisher would need a separate lie for him, along the lines of "yes, this facility you're looking at can totally make a million books in a few weeks, no problem there, you can go home and tell your rich daddy you did your job, he'll be super proud of you". For a total of three lies then...but we'll get to that.

The good news is, the publisher -- regardless of which version of @PhaelixWW 's story is correct -- doesn't have to worry about supplies, at least. There's nothing on record of the book selling all that well, except for Trump's claims it is. And I'm fairly sure I provided enough evidence that it's not.

I'm having trouble finding the NYTimes best seller's list by actual number of books sold. If you find it, please let me know where it is. I did find 2020's total results, yes Obama still wins, and selling a million books would be top 10 for the year easily. #15 on the list is 675k, so in theory, to be the #15 best selling book in any one week, you'd need...about 13,000 books. Hmm. That's a number I just recently posted, isn't it?

Trump's book of photos of Trump (admit it, that's what they are) has not yet hit the NYTimes top 15 seller list. So...one could assume that Trump's book hasn't sold 13,000 copies in any one week yet, and if you backtrack the number of weeks it's been out until now, that basically explains why we aren't hearing Trump's excuse about running out of leather until just now. He had copies left. He probably still does.

Or, the publisher never made 100,000 books, either. We have no confirmation from anyone, except Trump and the publisher he pays he might eventually pay, and his son who's terrified of failing him, that he's sold that many.

"What if the NYTimes has no way of tracking these books?"

If there's a way to sell enough books to make the NYTimes best seller list, but somehow small enough that the NYTimes doesn't keep track of it, you know what I'm done typing that, I handwave that option.

"What if it's in a category they don't list?"

I mean...that's possible. NYTimes tracks a finite number of categories, and I am like 85% sure I checked them all. Didn't see it. But Amazon did release their best selling list of books 2021, Trump's book released at the end of the year but he claims he got a bunch of presales, and he did sell it on Amazon. Amazon's list goes to 100. Trump's book isn't on it.

*ahem*

But Obama's is. #93 isn't exactly high on the list, but it's on it.

Oh, and the #1 on Amazon is the #1 on the NYTimes list. For 2021, at least. I'm expecting there's a decent corroboration between both best seller's lists.

You know what, the #1 sold 3 million copies and had 62,000 Amazon reviews. Let's check on how many reviews Trump's book has...511...and extrapolate?

(does napkin math)

About 25,000 books. Wow. Trump just can't win.

"You know Breccia, even the NYTimes is extrapolating. Publish counts are all based on the word of the publisher."

The publisher is Trump, or someone trying to carry Trump's favor, or someone lying so Trump doesn't fire them. None of these three are trustworthy. But I'll still give them the benefit of their clear, obvious experience. When Trump's book makes the list, wake me.

I did find this other list, it's 2022 so far, and the top 10 have 50,000 or more each. Trump's book isn't on that, either, but it came out in 2021.

Then I found this other other list, for Dec 2021 alone, and what a surprise, Trump's book isn't on that, either either.

There is no measurable, reliable source that says the book has sold out its first printing of 100,000. And...quite frankly, as they're claiming they're sold out (they at least told Barnes and Nobles that) but don't show up on any lists at all, it's actually quite possible they didn't make 100,000 in the first place.

Which is, of course, the third lie. The first, telling Trump they are out of materials. The second, telling Trump by proxy they could even make a million in the first place. And the third, saying they sold 100,000 when no data other than their own demonstrably worthless word is available. The biggest names in book sales aren't believing it, why should anyone?

Trump is claiming that his book is as hard to get as a PlayStation 5, and for the same reason. Either he's lying, or someone lied to him and he believed it.

To be fair, and this backs up @PhaelixWW a little more, objective book sales are not exactly easy to find. The publisher almost certainly lied, but lied from a position of strength to so do. If publishers had to provide weekly updates of actual copies sold to the public, NYTimes wouldn't need a list. So, they're smart. Downside, of course, they're still working for Trump. Which means they've got money problems. Their product isn't moving, and Trump never pays people. Maybe the publisher and Trump's few remaining lawyers can meet around the water cooler and exchange what part-time jobs they have or what items they're selling to make ends meet.

[PhaelixWW]

*snip*

I feel like you've now spent more time writing about this book than people have spent reading it.

(<rimshot>)

[Breccia]

I feel like you've now spent more time writing about this book than people have spent reading it.

I dunno, maybe there's a professional reviewer who's got an article up? I don't mean anonymous posted meta-sites like Amazon book reviews, hell, one of the 511 Trump got could just as easily be from a Russian bot farm as from me. Neither is going to be honest or fair. I mean an actual review from an actual reviewer from a recognizable source. (I did not say unbiased)

How about the Washington Examiner? Based on their reputation, surely they have a review.

(reads article)

Nope. Seems they, like many, are saying in November what everyone else is saying: it will be a picture book from his own publisher and it's a bigly yuge victory over the publishing companies because Trump said so. They hadn't read it yet. Well, maybe they did later?

(checks system of tubes)

On Jan 7th they did say it printed 200,000 copies, but they don't say how they know. As I've already demonstrated, 200k copies is unrealistic, so I'm going to assume how they know is "the publisher said so". But, helpfully enough, that same article says they finally got their hands on one, so now I can refine my search to dates following that article.

(checks the interwebs)

Nope. No review. Washington Examiner, to all public knowledge, never opened the book they got. Well, okay, there are other sources. Who else might have gotten a copy and reviewed it, that I'd at least believe when they said "I opened the book"?

(exploits Starbucks WiFi)

Uh...

(scrolls down)

(scrolls down)

(scrolls down)

Fuck. You're right. Nobody has reviewed this book.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, the NYTimes reported back in June that (a) Pence got a seven-figure book deal and (b) Trump hated that.

Related: also back in June, Trump claimed he turned down deals from giant book sellers. Politico looked into that and...yeah. Trump lied.

Their reluctance is driven by several factors, though the underlying fear is that whatever Trump would write wouldn’t be truthful.

“[I]t would be too hard to get a book that was factually accurate, actually,” said one major figure in the book publishing industry, explaining their reluctance to publish Trump. “That would be the problem. If he can’t even admit that he lost the election, then how do you publish that?”

It’s unheard of for a former U.S. president to struggle to score a major book deal after leaving office. And the absence of Trump’s own words from the literary world is made even more pronounced by the fact that several of his top aides and former Cabinet officials are writing books of their own. Former Vice President Mike Pence scored a seven-figure deal for two books with Simon & Schuster — a decision that sparked some employees of the company, well-known Simon & Schuster authors, and others to circulate a petition accusing the storied book house of promoting bigotry.

Whoa! Man, that throws the "Trump couldn't get a book deal" argument into a completely different light, doesn't it? Holy shit, what a fat fucking failure.

Trump has insisted that he has suitors for a book too. In a statement last Friday, he said he had received two offers “from the most unlikely of publishers” but turned them down because he did “not want to do such a deal right now.”

Trump didn’t reveal who the two publishers were. But in a statement on Monday afternoon to POLITICO, he insisted that “two of the biggest and most prestigious publishing houses have made very substantial offers which I have rejected.”

“That doesn’t mean I won’t accept them sometime in the future, as I have started writing the book,” the statement read. “If my book will be the biggest of them all, and with 39 books written or being written about me, does anybody really believe that they are above making a lot of money? Some of the biggest sleezebags [sic] on earth run these companies.”

“No morals, no nothing, just the bottom line,” he added. “And they sure wouldn’t admit it before the fact. But after the fact, they will stand by and say, ‘Let’s go.’”

Having trouble finding a publisher, you say...

POLITICO reached out to top publishers and editors at the “Big Five” publishing houses — Penguin Random House, Hachette Book Group, HarperCollins, Macmillan Publishers, and Simon & Schuster — to see if they had heard anything about any such deals Trump had been offered. None of the sources said they had heard about such potential book offers, and most said they wouldn’t touch a Trump project when he does start shopping a book around.

“It doesn’t matter what the upside on a Trump book deal is, the headaches the project would bring would far outweigh the potential in the eyes of a major publisher,” said Keith Urbahn, president and founding partner of Javelin, a literary and creative agency. “Any editor bold enough to acquire the Trump memoir is looking at a fact-checking nightmare, an exodus of other authors, and a staff uprising in the unlikely event they strike a deal with the former president.”

Besides the factual issues that publishing a book would bring, Trump’s role in inciting the Jan. 6 insurrection and his peddling of election falsehoods since last November have made him radioactive in the Manhattan publishing world. Simon & Schuster dropped a book by Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), who objected to the election results on Jan. 6, although his book was then picked up by conservative imprint Regnery.

Trump could potentially work with one of the major publishing houses with imprints that have worked with Trumpworld figures, like Center Street at Hatchette, Threshold at Simon & Schuster, or Broadside Books at HarperCollins. The spokespeople for those imprints did not return a request for comment on the record.

“It’s likely that a few unlikely people did approach him!” one industry source said in a text message, before adding a joke. “But that could be, like, a publisher in Zimbabwe,” they texted, with a laughing/crying emoji. Two people in publishing said that such an offer would likely entail a profit-sharing deal.

Another said that they were confident that some people did write to Trump after he left the White House to offer him a book deal, which would instantly put any conservative imprint on the map.

“Somebody could have offered him 100 dollars,” the person said. “It doesn’t mean anything.”

“I’m skeptical,” added another publishing insider when asked if they believed Trump’s statement that he had gotten two offers. “He’s screwed over so many publishers that before he ran for president none of the big 5 would work with [him] anymore.”

"But Breccia! The Art of the Deal!"

Trump didn't write it. He didn't pay the author. And the author said it was fiction. Take all of that...and ask someone to publish his new book.

The publishers who turned Trump down were right. Trump's book isn't selling. It's not worth the leather it's printed on.

[Belize]

The other is Rudy Guliiani who is a lawyer told us this was totes legal and he was in charge.

That's not a great defense either.

"My lawyer told me I could burn down this orphanage with all the orphans still inside and that it's totally legal." wouldn't really fly either.

[gondrin]

"including some by hand".

What, you mean most people don't have a personal assistant to write down their words at their whim? Writing shit yourself is a major life accomplishment like, like tying your own shoes. But I've been told it's an overrated experience.

What, you don't have your own bathers to bath you and wipers to wipe you when you are finished like an infant? Not planning on going on a trip to find your wife in a foreign country?

Wait a second, are we talking about Trump or the storyline to Coming to America? Because I believe that is something that he actually did.

- - - Updated - - -

-- someone as stupid as everyone but Trumpers thinks he is

Having checked just now, I cannot find many details about number of sales, other than "Trump says so". One site did say that 70,000 of the original 100,000 had been sold, then Trump claims they sold 240,000 -- more than are known to exist. I did find a few sites claiming he sold $1 million in 24 hours, which I am willing to believe, because the non-signed book sells for $75 and that's about 14,000 copies. Or, I guess technically it could be signed versions, at launch they were $230 (Amazon has them $165 now, eBay even lower) which would be under 5,000 copies.

Let's put some of these numbers into context. As of 2016, The Art of the Deal had cleared 1 million copies. It was published in the 80's, then Trump ran for office. Trump is claiming his picture book, is halfway there already, having been out for a month.

Donnie Dum-Dum Jr says it will hit the NYTimes best seller list. This, of course, is a site they can't control. Let's see how it's doing!

(goes to NYTimes best seller lists)

Huh. Can't find it. Oh shit, I'm looking today. Maybe I should check the week it was published. Hold on.

(checks NYTimes best seller lists for Dec 5-12, 2021)

Huh. Still can't find it. I even checked the children's picture book list.

Trump is lying. It would hardly be the first time Trump lied about book sales.

By contrast, I can find sites detailing Mary Trump's book sales.



She sold 1.35 million copies the first week. It is in its 17th printing. Also in 2020, the top selling hardcover nonfiction #1 best seller was Obama's book. Then McConaughey. Then Michelle Obama, "Becoming", which sold 10 million copies.

Even when Trump is lying, he cannot top that. What a fat orange failure. It shouldn't be a surprise -- Trump's entire business is based of him lying to investors and customers.

By the way, "leather"? That's funny. It's been a while since I've seen a leather-bound book. Let's take a quick look.

(checks legit booksellers)



That's from Barnes and Nobles, where the nonsigned book is down fro $75 to $60 and it's been out a month. To Trump's credit, they are out of stock. eBay has dozens. Not sure if scalpers who ended up with a product they can't move, or buyer's remorse on parade. Don't care.

But check out those pictures. Hey look, it's that picture of Trump's empty desk we mocked ourselves on this very site. But, that is not a leather-bound book. I even did a check for any reference of the book with the word "leather" in it, prior to Trump's cited statement earlier.

Also, Trump said his publisher's been doing this for 40 years and never had a problem. Considering I haven't seen anyone else complaining they don't have paper for their books, and/or the publisher is Don Jr, this would be a worrying admission even if it was true.

In short, Trump is, as usual, making shit up, and can't even tell a convincing story. Also...oh boy, the Amazon reviews are a treat to read.

I still can't get over him calling them plants and not printing presses. And the fact that they would have 8 of them. I think it is more Don Jr. heard that daddy wanted to throw him under the bus if Trump were to go to prison for something so he just is making up stuff to just appease good ole dad.

[Breccia]

For the record, I disagree with a lot of this OP ED piece. But it brings up points that are worth discussing.

More and more Republicans with whom I discuss politics appear to have decided that the best course of action for 2024 is to move on from Trump. That is not to say that they don’t embrace most of his policies — many of them still do. It’s just that they want to find another candidate with similar policies, someone who isn’t such a bully, with such an outsized ego. Someone who isn’t a lightning rod for hate.

As conservative pundit Ann Coulter, a former Trump supporter, told the New York Times: “Trump is done. You guys should stop obsessing over him.”

And in a tweet aimed directly at Trump, after he trolled Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis about his COVID booster status, Coulter said: “EXCLUSIVE: Trump is demanding to know Ron DeSantis’s booster status, and I can now reveal it. He was a loyal booster when Trump ran in 2016, but then he learned our president was a liar and con man whose grift was permanent. I hope that clears things up.”

Now, even if many Republicans want to move on from Trump’s influence, even if, like Coulter, they think he’s “done,” only one person has the power to stop Trump — that’s Trump himself. Somewhere along the way, he has morphed into the Darius Kincaid character from the movie “The Hitman’s Bodyguard” — meaning that, politically, he has become all but unkillable.

The media, the Democrats, Hollywood, the Never-Trumpers, and all of those rational Republicans can wish him gone, but it’s a wasted wish. Trump knows he is still unkillable in one critically important way: No matter how many former supporters turn their backs on him, Trump still might be left with as many as 50 million voters from his 74.2 million tally in November 2020.

In a three-person race, with Trump as the third-party candidate, he easily could get on the ballot in all 50 states, and those 50 million or so votes would be a formidable number.

I have said before that I don’t believe Trump ultimately will — or should — run in 2024, and that if he does we likely will see an uprising of civil disobedience from those who don’t want to endure another Trump presidency. But, guess what? Trump couldn’t care less what any of us thinks or says. He marches only to the beat of his mercurial ego.

I'd also ask anyone too young to remember...or be alive...when H. Ross Perot ran, to check out the 1992 Presidential Election. You'll find it in the "there was no murderous insurrection" section. Perot didn't get a single state, but the percents of each state he got were mostly taken from George H. W. Bush's tally. Clinton didn't have a majority, hell he had a lower percent than Trump did. But he won.

For the sake of simplicity let's say DeSantis runs. In any borderline state, whether Trump wins 90%/10% of the red vote or DeSantis does, the difference in popular vote hands the E.C. to Biden and/or Harris. The split goes 80/20 and Texas is at risk of flipping. Hypothetically, a 50/50 split in Alabama and Biden wins it, but let's stick to realistic outcomes.

The last thing the Republican Party wants is a civil war that costs them the White House. Problem is, the second to last thing they want is the failure that is Trump anchoring their party to the Insurrection Ocean. Biden would destroy Trump in another set of debates, whether Trump attends or not, because Biden will continue to point out how Trump sucked at everything and Trump will keep whining about crowd sizes, catch COVID again, and his dentures will fall out. The Republican Party wants an election on what they're trying to portray as Biden's failings ("he didn't recover from Trump's recession as fast as we promised our voters that survived catching COVID twice") and Trump won't allow that.

There were rumors that Trump signed some kind of deal not to run. But even if those are true, we are talking about Trump here. His signature isn't worth the leather his book isn't printed on. But that's not the issue. Trump was humiliated in his defeat to the point of staging a murderous insurrection, which over and above anything else he might have done with Georgia voter fraud, the fake electors his team conspired with, and of course his taxes might be what actually shoves him into a negative light with a majority of pro-lifers. Or, he could go to jail, get dumped by Melania, or just die of a hairline fracture to his ego.

Plus his family might actually convince him that running and losing make people say mean things about him on Twitter. On which he can't respond.

Trump both can't and won't run...I think. If he did, while it's against their best interest, the Republican Party would unbuckle their belt, drop their pants, and bend over for him. ("Close your eyes and think of the New England Patriots") But Trump running third party would be the best possible result, splitting the pro-war pro-torture pro-conspiracies anti-science anti-truth pro-white-supremacy anti-homosexual vote, and a few actual Republicans too maybe, into fragments that keep them from winning states, fake electors or not.

If you're a conservative donor, such as a large business exec or a Klansman, and Trump announces he's running against DeSantis, where does your money go? You sure as hell aren't doubling your contribution. Trump doesn't value donations against Biden, only for his bank accounts. And if you've been following the news or, not nearly as good, my posts, you know Trump fucking hates how DeSantis is being more Trump than Trump. They won't team up.

And if you're anywhere near moderate status, is there any chance either DeSantis or Trump will get your vote?

A reminder: H. W. was running for re-election and Clinton got 370 E.C. votes with 41% of the popular vote. It was a curb stomping. It was embarrassing. Or funny. Depends.

What do you think? 2024 is a long way off, but do you see Trump running, and if so, how?

[s_bushido]

For the record, I disagree with a lot of this OP ED piece. But it brings up points that are worth discussing.

I'm not sure I buy that "50 million" number. He's still got a cult following, but I don't know what % of the votes he received in 2020 were just people who would vote for anyone with an R next to their name anyway.

Running 3rd party as a spoiler for the GOP would stroke his ego (knowing that he'd basically single-handedly tank their hopes at ousting Biden), but I agree that that ego might not be up to taking another loss like that.

Part of me hopes he runs again, just because I don't really see what he has to offer in 2024 that wasn't able to move anyone in 2020. I get that the GOP is currently frantically ratfucking what remains of our democracy to preserve their electoral handicap...but is that enough to push through a thoroughly dogshit candidate like an even older and more irrelevant Trump? idk, man...

[gondrin]

I'm not sure I buy that "50 million" number. He's still got a cult following, but I don't know what % of the votes he received in 2020 were just people who would vote for anyone with an R next to their name anyway.

Running 3rd party as a spoiler for the GOP would stroke his ego (knowing that he'd basically single-handedly tank their hopes at ousting Biden), but I agree that that ego might not be up to taking another loss like that.

Part of me hopes he runs again, just because I don't really see what he has to offer in 2024 that wasn't able to move anyone in 2020. I get that the GOP is currently frantically ratfucking what remains of our democracy to preserve their electoral handicap...but is that enough to push through a thoroughly dogshit candidate like an even older and more irrelevant Trump? idk, man...

I agree that I hope he runs again as a third party candidate only for the reason that it would mobilize the democratic voters definitely not wanting him in plus it would spoil any hope for the GOP to win the presidency. Otherwise, I want him as far away as possible from running again.

[Endus]

I'd also ask anyone too young to remember...or be alive...when H. Ross Perot ran, to check out the 1992 Presidential Election. You'll find it in the "there was no murderous insurrection" section. Perot didn't get a single state, but the percents of each state he got were mostly taken from George H. W. Bush's tally. Clinton didn't have a majority, hell he had a lower percent than Trump did. But he won.

For the sake of simplicity let's say DeSantis runs. In any borderline state, whether Trump wins 90%/10% of the red vote or DeSantis does, the difference in popular vote hands the E.C. to Biden and/or Harris. The split goes 80/20 and Texas is at risk of flipping. Hypothetically, a 50/50 split in Alabama and Biden wins it, but let's stick to realistic outcomes.

The last thing the Republican Party wants is a civil war that costs them the White House. Problem is, the second to last thing they want is the failure that is Trump anchoring their party to the Insurrection Ocean. Biden would destroy Trump in another set of debates, whether Trump attends or not, because Biden will continue to point out how Trump sucked at everything and Trump will keep whining about crowd sizes, catch COVID again, and his dentures will fall out. The Republican Party wants an election on what they're trying to portray as Biden's failings ("he didn't recover from Trump's recession as fast as we promised our voters that survived catching COVID twice") and Trump won't allow that.

There were rumors that Trump signed some kind of deal not to run. But even if those are true, we are talking about Trump here. His signature isn't worth the leather his book isn't printed on. But that's not the issue. Trump was humiliated in his defeat to the point of staging a murderous insurrection, which over and above anything else he might have done with Georgia voter fraud, the fake electors his team conspired with, and of course his taxes might be what actually shoves him into a negative light with a majority of pro-lifers. Or, he could go to jail, get dumped by Melania, or just die of a hairline fracture to his ego.

Plus his family might actually convince him that running and losing make people say mean things about him on Twitter. On which he can't respond.

Trump both can't and won't run...I think. If he did, while it's against their best interest, the Republican Party would unbuckle their belt, drop their pants, and bend over for him. ("Close your eyes and think of the New England Patriots") But Trump running third party would be the best possible result, splitting the pro-war pro-torture pro-conspiracies anti-science anti-truth pro-white-supremacy anti-homosexual vote, and a few actual Republicans too maybe, into fragments that keep them from winning states, fake electors or not.

If you're a conservative donor, such as a large business exec or a Klansman, and Trump announces he's running against DeSantis, where does your money go? You sure as hell aren't doubling your contribution. Trump doesn't value donations against Biden, only for his bank accounts. And if you've been following the news or, not nearly as good, my posts, you know Trump fucking hates how DeSantis is being more Trump than Trump. They won't team up.

And if you're anywhere near moderate status, is there any chance either DeSantis or Trump will get your vote?

A reminder: H. W. was running for re-election and Clinton got 370 E.C. votes with 41% of the popular vote. It was a curb stomping. It was embarrassing. Or funny. Depends.

What do you think? 2024 is a long way off, but do you see Trump running, and if so, how?

If they tighten the noose so it looks like he's gonna get criminally charged, I'd lay strong money that Trump runs regardless of whether he wins the Republican primary or not. He'd run as an Independent just on the off chance he can hit a home run and become President again where he's invincible.

Which is just another reason they need to get moving on that shit.

I don't think such a win would be meaningful, though. It'd just demonstrate how colossally borked the American system is, when you end up with a hypothetical President that everyone in Congress is opposed to (since there's no way he'll start a new party and win a meaningful number of seats, replacing Republicans en masse; I can believe in an outside chance he takes the Presidency but not that). Winning Congressional/Senate seats is more important. Controlling those mean the President is heavily restricted, if he's opposed to you, and that's where the bulk of the real power lies.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Running 3rd party as a spoiler for the GOP would stroke his ego (knowing that he'd basically single-handedly tank their hopes at ousting Biden), but I agree that that ego might not be up to taking another loss like that.

I don't think we'd see Trump running as a 3rd party. But we'd very likely see Trump demanding a LOT of money to NOT run as a 3rd party. Probably while grifting his supporters for donations to fund his capaign to run.

That would be Trump being Trump, after all.

[postman1782]

Trump promises to pardon all January 6th defendants if he gets elected in 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tru...ns-2022-01-30/

Fuck him. Fuck everyone that supports him, and I hope he fucking tries it, because he would be fucking impeached again if Democrats take over in 2024 if they lose in 2022.

Just another thing to add to the fucking list of why no one should vote for this fascist piece of shit.

[Gorsameth]

I have trouble seeing a 2024 where Trump doesn't run in some fashion simply because the Presidential Office is his only chance, no matter how small it may be, to protect himself from all the lawsuits against him. And yes I know State stuff and whatever, this is Trump. Reality and logic need not apply.

The problem the GOP has is that they don't have a lot to bargain with that can match the protection of the Office of the President of the United States of America.

[Breccia]

I have trouble seeing a 2024 where Trump doesn't run in some fashion simply because the Presidential Office is his only chance, no matter how small it may be, to protect himself from all the lawsuits against him.

The Oval Office doesn't really protect the way Trump thinks it does. But, yes, current investigations should move both quickly and effectively enough to bring results before or during his run.

[Edge-]

Trump promises to pardon all January 6th defendants if he gets elected in 2024.

"Only I can do the thing I could have done the last time I was president, but didn't do."

I'm not sure this is necessarily a winning tentpole issue, but I guess we'll see.

[Poopymonster]

"Only I can do the thing I could have done the last time I was president, but didn't do."

I'm not sure this is necessarily a winning tentpole issue, but I guess we'll see.

It's the political version of jars of gamer girl pee. They will want it NO MATTER WHAT because of it's source, think it's just for them, and not care how ridiculous it sounds. It buys into their fantasy.

[Ivanstone]

"Only I can do the thing I could have done the last time I was president, but didn't do."

I'm not sure this is necessarily a winning tentpole issue, but I guess we'll see.

I think you're being too hard on Trump here.

It takes time to figure out who's a financial criminal. He only had two weeks and he was busying pardoning other people who needed it more.

[Breccia]

"Only I can do the thing I could have done the last time I was president, but didn't do."

I'm not sure this is necessarily a winning tentpole issue, but I guess we'll see.

I think you're being too hard on Trump here.

It takes time to figure out who's a financial criminal. He only had two weeks and he was busying pardoning other people who needed it more.

Indeed.

We knew Trump's priorities before the murderous insurrection. The two weeks that followed just put them on display. Either Trump didn't blanket pardon the seditionists because he was told that'd be bad press, or he didn't because they just weren't important to him because they failed.

Let's also review Trump's running history of fulfilling his promises, campaign or otherwise. If Trump promises to do something, it means nothing.

[Ivanstone]

he didn't because they just weren't important to him

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1785099.html

They looked "low class". Financial criminals at least dress well.